Pentax bodies' lens-changing ergonomics. Clearly superior?

r0ckstarr · 10-11-2010, 11:37 AM

The DA LTD's are easy to drop if you're not careful.

Wheatfield · 10-11-2010, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Unsinkable II

I find changing lenses on a Pentax very comfortable and natural (hold grip as usual, use pinkie to release lens and twist off with left hand). When playing with Canikons I find lens changing very awkward (palm potentially all over the screen, dangerously poor and uncomfortable grip of the camera).

I would have thought this was design 101. Am I missing something?

Pentax was nicer before they messed with the button position and removed the lens dit. I suspect the grip made it a necessity.

Nikon hasn't moved their button, and it dates back to when SLR camera had a somewhat different shape and size. On my Nikon F2, I can hold the camera confidently in my left hand, and push the lens release. This leaves my right hand for lens changing.
I haven't handled a Nikon DSLR enough to know if I would still be able to do this comfortably.

dlacouture · 10-11-2010, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by r0ckstarr

The DA LTD's are easy to drop if you're not careful.

?????

Well, I can't really see how a lens could unmount on its own... The trick only implies that you depress the locking latch, that's all... No need to start unmounting the lens. Anyway, you'll lose PK-A metering long before the lens will fall off the camera, so you will be warned...
And there is no real need for big focus moves, as you can autofocus so as to be at the right distance.

EDIT: or maybe I mis-read you and you're not talking about the CIF trick with AF lenses?

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Nikon hasn't moved their button, and it dates back to when SLR camera had a somewhat different shape and size. On my Nikon F2, I can hold the camera confidently in my left hand, and push the lens release. This leaves my right hand for lens changing.
I haven't handled a Nikon DSLR enough to know if I would still be able to do this comfortably.

From my quick and short experience with Nikon, I found out that the fastest way to unlock the lens was by holding the body by its grip with the right hand (no need to change your hand position), grabbing the lens by the upside (palm downward, against the flash) with the left hand, and depressing the latch with the left thumb. Left hand position is reversed in regards to Pentax.

Only problem with this method is that you don't hold the lens by underneath, so sloppy hands can let them fall down, or you have to face the camera upward, and so all the dirt will be nicely gathering on your sensor...

Pentax is much nicer, as you can easily face the camera downward, without changing your right-hand position.

Eruditass · 10-11-2010, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by stormcloud

why would you want to use catch in focus on a autofocus lens? the whole point of catch in focus is for manual focus lenses surely or am i missing something

Another trick which I use more often is making non-QS lenses act like they have QS with this (I also decouple the AF from the half-press and use the AF button)

WMBP · 10-11-2010, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Unsinkable II

I find changing lenses on a Pentax very comfortable and natural (hold grip as usual, use pinkie to release lens and twist off with left hand). When playing with Canikons I find lens changing very awkward (palm potentially all over the screen, dangerously poor and uncomfortable grip of the camera).

I would have thought this was design 101. Am I missing something?

I'm glad you posted this. I've wondered about it myself. I'm not familiar with all the other brands, but I agree with you, that Pentax's approach is different and better. On the Nikons and Sonys I've tried, changing lenses is indeed more awkward.

I believe this goes back to the days of film, and I wonder if the approach taken by the other makers doesn't represent a bias in favor of right-handers. The non-Pentax way of doing it means that you hold the lens in your right hand, as you take it off or put it on. Perhaps somebody thought this was safer for the overwhelming majority of the population that is right-handed. But actually, Pentax's approach lets you get a good grip on the lens with your left hand, so even if you were a bit of a klutz working with your left hand, you still would be unlikely to drop the lens.

That said, it's hardly a huge deal. Wouldn't keep me from using a 7D or D7000 if someone gave me one as a gift....

Will

GrinMode · 10-11-2010, 04:17 PM

I was told by a long time photographer the left side release button isn't so akward in film cams. There is a fair amount of left hand grip due to the film compartment.

But yes, the Pentax method is better in terms of ergonomics.

r0ckstarr · 10-12-2010, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by dlacouture

?????

Well, I can't really see how a lens could unmount on its own... The trick only implies that you depress the locking latch.......

Just speaking in about when swapping out lenses, trying to relate to the original topic of this thread.

helios · 10-12-2010, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Eruditass

Another trick which I use more often is making non-QS lenses act like they have QS with this (I also decouple the AF from the half-press and use the AF button)

This trick deserves to be more widely known as the DAL lenses lack quick shift and they are often supplied as part of a package deal to new Pentax users.

borno · 10-12-2010, 08:57 AM

I added some canon gear two years ago, and still can't get used to the unlock button. They go on easier though without the aperture lever and all. Maybe a good reason to justify a 7d to go with my 50d.(less lens changing) Think my wife will go for it??

RolloR · 10-12-2010, 09:16 AM

i actually like the "smoothness" of my canon EF mount more. although yeah the release button is not in the best position.

what i like about the K-mount is you can force-fit nikon/nikkor lenses to it

axl · 10-12-2010, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by borno

I added some canon gear two years ago, and still can't get used to the unlock button. They go on easier though without the aperture lever and all. Maybe a good reason to justify a 7d to go with my 50d.(less lens changing) Think my wife will go for it??

good luck with that excuse

---
to the topic, I haven't tried many other cameras, but I have to agree that lens change on Pentax's is very easy indeed. Shame is they removed the dot, and dot on the lenses doesn't align with the release button of the new cameras so you can't fit the lens onto a body without looking...but still, as far as comfort goes, no complaints....

HGMonaro · 10-12-2010, 09:26 PM

coming from a Nikon 35mm background I found Pentax's lens release button to be in an awkward position. Couple of weeks ago I had a Nikon FM2n out to take some slides with and had the same problem! I think you get used to anything after awhile.

wlachan · 10-12-2010, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Unsinkable II

I find changing lenses on a Pentax very comfortable and natural (hold grip as usual, use pinkie to release lens and twist off with left hand). When playing with Canikons I find lens changing very awkward (palm potentially all over the screen, dangerously poor and uncomfortable grip of the camera).

Exactly how I feel as well.

ewig · 10-12-2010, 11:38 PM

some people says...canikon was created by engginer...
and Pentax was created by photograper ...

TiminyCricket · 10-12-2010, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by Unsinkable II

I find changing lenses on a Pentax very comfortable and natural (hold grip as usual, use pinkie to release lens and twist off with left hand). When playing with Canikons I find lens changing very awkward (palm potentially all over the screen, dangerously poor and uncomfortable grip of the camera).

I would have thought this was design 101. Am I missing something?

I agree. I had thought that all camera brands had their lens release on the right side of the body where you could reach it with finger, or pinky while still maintaining a solid grip on the camera. And then one night a friend of mine asked me to take a few pictures of her singing with her band while they were playing a local gig. She has a Nikon D40x, which has the lens disengage button on the left side of the body, not the right. I also believe the lens had to be rotated in the opposite direction in order to disengage it. It took me a while to figure out how to disengage and remove the lens for the first time and I remember that the process of doing so did not feel nearly as secure as it does when doing it to my K10D. Maybe it's something you just eventually get used to, but regardless, it did not feel to me to be a good way to have to disengage a lens.

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10-11-2010, 11:37 AM	#16
r0ckstarr Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,507	The DA LTD's are easy to drop if you're not careful.

10-11-2010, 11:38 AM	#17
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Unsinkable II I find changing lenses on a Pentax very comfortable and natural (hold grip as usual, use pinkie to release lens and twist off with left hand). When playing with Canikons I find lens changing very awkward (palm potentially all over the screen, dangerously poor and uncomfortable grip of the camera). I would have thought this was design 101. Am I missing something? Pentax was nicer before they messed with the button position and removed the lens dit. I suspect the grip made it a necessity. Nikon hasn't moved their button, and it dates back to when SLR camera had a somewhat different shape and size. On my Nikon F2, I can hold the camera confidently in my left hand, and push the lens release. This leaves my right hand for lens changing. I haven't handled a Nikon DSLR enough to know if I would still be able to do this comfortably.

10-11-2010, 12:30 PM	#18
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	Originally posted by r0ckstarr The DA LTD's are easy to drop if you're not careful. ????? Well, I can't really see how a lens could unmount on its own... The trick only implies that you depress the locking latch, that's all... No need to start unmounting the lens. Anyway, you'll lose PK-A metering long before the lens will fall off the camera, so you will be warned... And there is no real need for big focus moves, as you can autofocus so as to be at the right distance. EDIT: or maybe I mis-read you and you're not talking about the CIF trick with AF lenses? Originally posted by Wheatfield Nikon hasn't moved their button, and it dates back to when SLR camera had a somewhat different shape and size. On my Nikon F2, I can hold the camera confidently in my left hand, and push the lens release. This leaves my right hand for lens changing. I haven't handled a Nikon DSLR enough to know if I would still be able to do this comfortably. From my quick and short experience with Nikon, I found out that the fastest way to unlock the lens was by holding the body by its grip with the right hand (no need to change your hand position), grabbing the lens by the upside (palm downward, against the flash) with the left hand, and depressing the latch with the left thumb. Left hand position is reversed in regards to Pentax. Only problem with this method is that you don't hold the lens by underneath, so sloppy hands can let them fall down, or you have to face the camera upward, and so all the dirt will be nicely gathering on your sensor... Pentax is much nicer, as you can easily face the camera downward, without changing your right-hand position.

10-11-2010, 12:44 PM	#19
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	Originally posted by stormcloud why would you want to use catch in focus on a autofocus lens? the whole point of catch in focus is for manual focus lenses surely or am i missing something Another trick which I use more often is making non-QS lenses act like they have QS with this (I also decouple the AF from the half-press and use the AF button)

10-11-2010, 03:44 PM	#20
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482	Originally posted by Unsinkable II I find changing lenses on a Pentax very comfortable and natural (hold grip as usual, use pinkie to release lens and twist off with left hand). When playing with Canikons I find lens changing very awkward (palm potentially all over the screen, dangerously poor and uncomfortable grip of the camera). I would have thought this was design 101. Am I missing something? I'm glad you posted this. I've wondered about it myself. I'm not familiar with all the other brands, but I agree with you, that Pentax's approach is different and better. On the Nikons and Sonys I've tried, changing lenses is indeed more awkward. I believe this goes back to the days of film, and I wonder if the approach taken by the other makers doesn't represent a bias in favor of right-handers. The non-Pentax way of doing it means that you hold the lens in your right hand, as you take it off or put it on. Perhaps somebody thought this was safer for the overwhelming majority of the population that is right-handed. But actually, Pentax's approach lets you get a good grip on the lens with your left hand, so even if you were a bit of a klutz working with your left hand, you still would be unlikely to drop the lens. That said, it's hardly a huge deal. Wouldn't keep me from using a 7D or D7000 if someone gave me one as a gift.... Will

10-11-2010, 04:17 PM	#21
GrinMode Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 249	I was told by a long time photographer the left side release button isn't so akward in film cams. There is a fair amount of left hand grip due to the film compartment. But yes, the Pentax method is better in terms of ergonomics.

10-12-2010, 06:21 AM	#22
r0ckstarr Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,507	Originally posted by dlacouture ????? Well, I can't really see how a lens could unmount on its own... The trick only implies that you depress the locking latch....... Just speaking in about when swapping out lenses, trying to relate to the original topic of this thread.

10-12-2010, 08:34 AM	#23
helios Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Peterborough UK Posts: 37	Originally posted by Eruditass Another trick which I use more often is making non-QS lenses act like they have QS with this (I also decouple the AF from the half-press and use the AF button) This trick deserves to be more widely known as the DAL lenses lack quick shift and they are often supplied as part of a package deal to new Pentax users.

10-12-2010, 08:57 AM	#24
borno Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: md-usa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,580	I added some canon gear two years ago, and still can't get used to the unlock button. They go on easier though without the aperture lever and all. Maybe a good reason to justify a 7d to go with my 50d.(less lens changing) Think my wife will go for it??

10-12-2010, 09:16 AM	#25
RolloR Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 264	i actually like the "smoothness" of my canon EF mount more. although yeah the release button is not in the best position. what i like about the K-mount is you can force-fit nikon/nikkor lenses to it

10-12-2010, 09:21 AM	#26
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	Originally posted by borno I added some canon gear two years ago, and still can't get used to the unlock button. They go on easier though without the aperture lever and all. Maybe a good reason to justify a 7d to go with my 50d.(less lens changing) Think my wife will go for it?? good luck with that excuse --- to the topic, I haven't tried many other cameras, but I have to agree that lens change on Pentax's is very easy indeed. Shame is they removed the dot, and dot on the lenses doesn't align with the release button of the new cameras so you can't fit the lens onto a body without looking...but still, as far as comfort goes, no complaints....

10-12-2010, 09:26 PM	#27
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	coming from a Nikon 35mm background I found Pentax's lens release button to be in an awkward position. Couple of weeks ago I had a Nikon FM2n out to take some slides with and had the same problem! I think you get used to anything after awhile.

10-12-2010, 09:33 PM	#28
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Originally posted by Unsinkable II I find changing lenses on a Pentax very comfortable and natural (hold grip as usual, use pinkie to release lens and twist off with left hand). When playing with Canikons I find lens changing very awkward (palm potentially all over the screen, dangerously poor and uncomfortable grip of the camera). Exactly how I feel as well.

10-12-2010, 11:38 PM	#29
ewig Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 312	some people says...canikon was created by engginer... and Pentax was created by photograper ...

10-12-2010, 11:49 PM	#30
TiminyCricket Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 76	Originally posted by Unsinkable II I find changing lenses on a Pentax very comfortable and natural (hold grip as usual, use pinkie to release lens and twist off with left hand). When playing with Canikons I find lens changing very awkward (palm potentially all over the screen, dangerously poor and uncomfortable grip of the camera). I would have thought this was design 101. Am I missing something? I agree. I had thought that all camera brands had their lens release on the right side of the body where you could reach it with finger, or pinky while still maintaining a solid grip on the camera. And then one night a friend of mine asked me to take a few pictures of her singing with her band while they were playing a local gig. She has a Nikon D40x, which has the lens disengage button on the left side of the body, not the right. I also believe the lens had to be rotated in the opposite direction in order to disengage it. It took me a while to figure out how to disengage and remove the lens for the first time and I remember that the process of doing so did not feel nearly as secure as it does when doing it to my K10D. Maybe it's something you just eventually get used to, but regardless, it did not feel to me to be a good way to have to disengage a lens.