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09-11-2007, 08:33 PM   #1
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Samsung GX10 or Pentax K100d

Hey guys, I'm a noob looking for some advise. I am looking to get my first DSLR. I will be using it for everything from daily snapshots to urban street photography with maybe some sports thrown in.

I am looking at the GX10 because there are some really good prices out there for it and the K100d because is just so cheap. I've read reviews for both and they seem very good. If I get the K100d I plan on getting the kit lens along with a prime like the FA 50 1.4. The price for the GX10 with 1 kit lens and the K100d with the 2 lenses should be about the same. I handled both the K10d along with the K100d at the store and they both feel really good. I am assuming that the GX10 will feel very similar to the K10d. I slightly prefer the K100d body because it's a bit lighter and more compact. So what do you think I should do?

09-12-2007, 03:29 AM   #2
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Go real cheap

If you want to save a lot of money and intend to learn how to use a DSLR properly, here is an off the wall recommendation. Over on the marketplace board fletcherkane has a nice M50mm f1.4 and a Tokina 70-210 for sale. Both very nice lenses and can be bought for a total of $140. Look here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographers-marketplace/11770-cleaning-...gear-sale.html

You can pick up the k100D for $330 after rebate without the kit lens. Now you have a kit that is great in low light and could be sold at any time for near your purchase price if you decide to move up.

regards,

Ken
09-12-2007, 07:08 AM   #3
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Don't buy the Samsung!

K100D is the best buy for the bucks.

Don't get the GX10, because it lacks compressed RAW. It has not PEF (seems that Pentax haven't licensed Samsung to market the GX10 with it), which is compressed. The GX10 only supports DNG RAW format in an uncompressed manner of which the file size of a single image can be very large (around 17MB each IIRC).

If you really choose the GX10, get only a K10D. You will probably need to shoot RAW most of the time with the K10D as its jpegs are just crappy, honestly speaking. And to get the better out of the K10D, you need to shoot RAW and use better RAW convertors like the ACR in order to produce higher resolution images. In all other cases, you'll be just able to get the so-called "soft edge jpegs" (as mentioned by Phil Askey) or inferior jpegs as stated by Klaus Schroiff of PhotoZone.

By the way, as with any Pentax DSLR, it is always preferable to shoot RAW instead of jpegs owing to the high inaccuracy in exposure and auto white balance. So, RAW can rectify those errors, to a certain extent, at the post processing and conversion stage.
09-12-2007, 07:27 AM   #4
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Ususal blah blah blah.....

http://www.photographyreview.com/cat/cameras/digital-cameras/digital-slrs/pe....aspx?TabID=2: For many serious photographers, pro and amateur alike, the K10D (GX10 equal/ my addition)stands on its own as a well-rounded photographic tool that can be used for many types and styles of photography. While some may take issue with the K10D's image quality, other photographers may not be as trapped by the endless pixel obsession cycle (see Ken Rockwell's "measurbators").
And more from Phil:
Pentax may well have been aiming for a smooth film-like appearance but I at least feel that the inability to tweak this out by increasing sharpness is a mistake. That said it's unlikely you'll see this difference in any print up to A3 size, it's a 100% view thing so you have to decide if that's important to you or not. To get that absolute crisp appearance you'll need to shoot RAW, and use Adobe Camera RAW or another third party converter (as the supplied converter produces similar results to the camera).
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=11817
Be careful of people that like to take things out of context:
And my own take on the issue:
After some pixel level examinations of the Pentax vs Nikon examples on Phils site the only difference I see (at the pixel level) is Pentax has a 1 extra pixel "smear". 1 pixel difference in edge sharpening. Unfortunately it seems to be quite "visual". As to the reasoning for the "poor" jpg's I think Klaus'es findings shed some light on it. Pentax did something quite different by using a "unbalanced" AA filter (something no other camera company has done, kudos for the "mold breaking" attempt). This "feature" allows for an increase in resolution of the RAW files but needs some aggressive de-sharpening in the jpg in order to eliminate any (most) stairstepping and moire caused by the weak to non-existant AA filter in 1 direction.
Pentax K10D Review / Test Report
......."Now is this something bad ? Not necessarily. You may argue that this is a design decision because the potential resolution is roughly 10-15% higher compared to other Sony-based DSLRs (Nikon D200, Sony Alpha 100). That's assuming you use a capable RAW converter naturally - the Pentax PhotoLab or straight JPEGs do not qualify here. As we've seen the extra resolution doesn't come for free. This is probably also the reason why straight JPEGs as well as PhotoLab RAWs are comparatively soft because Pentax decided to apply an inferior (I'll add that it isn't inferior, just necessary, but that's just my take on it) software low-pass filter here"................
Bottom line: Design decision value (good or bad) are in the eye of the beholder. Pentax said they wanted (my paraphrase) to build a photographers camera, not a P&S. That they did. They increased resolution at the expense of in-camera jpg's. From someone who refused to even "think" about a camera (pre-pentax) that didn't have RAW capability was nothing short of buying a Polaroid it didn't bother me the least.....................
If it's not broke, you can't fix it. BUT you can change it
YMMV
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/11747-k10d-softness-jpeg-3.html
Best to research this yourself.

09-12-2007, 08:00 AM   #5
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Something I'll add that's just hearsay since I don't own a Samsung is that their customer service is lacking compared to Pentax's.
09-12-2007, 08:48 AM   #6
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In reply to RiceHigh

I should like to take issue with your sweeping comments regarding the Pentax K10D, when you blithely state that:

QuoteQuote:
You will probably need to shoot RAW most of the time with the K10D as its jpegs are just crappy, honestly speaking.
Well you're naturally entitled to your opinion, but I simply refuse to agree that "its (K10D) jpegs are just crappy" ! Very far from it in fact and having seen the evidence from my own photographs, I beg to differ on the subject ! I believe that you also use a Canon 5D, but even this camera has it's own associated problems and whilst no product will ever be regarded as perfect by all the people who use it, I am VERY PLEASED indeed with my K10D !! I think it's currently fantastic value for money and the expression 'horses for courses' somehow springs to mind.....

Best regards
Richard
09-12-2007, 11:08 AM   #7
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K100d

I can't really compare because I held GX10 only once, but I do own K100D and unless you need weather sealing and 4mpx more, you can't really go wrong with K100D. It's great little camera, capable of perfect results. If you don't print bigger than A4 you won't miss 10mpx. And plus the advantage of another lens and great customer service... IMO: K100D steals it, especialy for the price it costs now...
09-12-2007, 01:16 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
K100D is the best buy for the bucks.

If you really choose the GX10, get only a K10D. You will probably need to shoot RAW most of the time with the K10D as its jpegs are just crappy, honestly speaking.
What a load of you know what. I am so sick of hearing this. The Jpegs are NOT crappy. No reviewer has said they are "Crappy". Even Phil over at DPR said the edge sharpness is only an issue at 100% pixel peeping. And that is the only criticism of the K10D jpegs he had. That dosen't sound like "crappy" to me.

If you read the interviews with Tatamiya, he very pointedly made clear that the K10D jpegs are designed to be sharpened in a photo editing program. I would include the link, unfortunately the page has been deleted.

Please stop saying the K10D jpegs are crap. THEY ARE NOT. By the way I am saying this even though I am a dedicated RAW shooter. But we all have seen superb jpegs from ALL Pentax DSLRs, and all but the K100 has been tagged with this "soft Jpeg" rap. Every time it is raised, it just perpetuates the myth.

09-12-2007, 03:08 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by robotfood15 Quote
Hey guys, I'm a noob looking for some advise. I am looking to get my first DSLR. I will be using it for everything from daily snapshots to urban street photography with maybe some sports thrown in.

I am looking at the GX10 because there are some really good prices out there for it and the K100d because is just so cheap. I've read reviews for both and they seem very good. If I get the K100d I plan on getting the kit lens along with a prime like the FA 50 1.4. The price for the GX10 with 1 kit lens and the K100d with the 2 lenses should be about the same. I handled both the K10d along with the K100d at the store and they both feel really good. I am assuming that the GX10 will feel very similar to the K10d. I slightly prefer the K100d body because it's a bit lighter and more compact. So what do you think I should do?

Hi,
Tough decision. My natural instinct is to go with the Pentax, BUT please do your own research here and on dpr, as there are many VERY satsified Samsung GX10 owners on these sites.

Please also only listen to comments on the image quality from these cameras from people who actually own one and use it for photography, practical experience is priceless.
Someone here throwing crap at the K10D does NOT own one and should therefore qualify his statements accordingly....or shut up.

BEWARE the comments about "crappy jpegs", I have had a *ist DS for around 3 years now and the jpegs from that were also said to be "poor"...but that is not my experience, and I have put it to the test, standing shoulder to shoulder with another major 'C'amera manufacturer taking the same shots....he is still scratching is head as to why the Pentax shots looked better. A family member also has a'N'other brand, so I have had the opportunity to compare. I see no reason to change brand, jpegs included.

BE AWARE that every brand of camera can take a bad shot...and do. However to get the operator to accept that they may have some input into the process (good or bad) is something that camera manufacturers have yet to deal with....perhaps another firmware fix...

I encourage every Samsung GX10 owner to chip in here with your experiences.
Cheers.
Grant
09-12-2007, 03:19 PM   #10
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You mean more like a wetware fix.
09-12-2007, 03:50 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chako Quote
You mean more like a wetware fix.
Hey Chako.

Yeah, its a great opportunity while the eye is up to the viewfinder, to send some sort of sublimal message direct into the brain.....but wait....thats probaly the problem....

I give up, this jpeg discussion really annoys me. Sorry for the rant, I shouldn't let it get under my skin.
(gets off soap box, kicks the @!!$#!! out of said soap box)
Cheers
Grant
09-12-2007, 04:25 PM   #12
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Nah. If we lose the passion, then what would we be...straw men made of empty husk.

I don't disagree with you at all. Your firmware fix comment made me laugh, and I was just chipping in.
09-12-2007, 06:28 PM   #13
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I have a GX-10. Nice camera but Samsung America's service stinks!

Entire tale of woe is posted here: GX-10: Samsung customer service STINKS.: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Last edited by SRT-202; 09-12-2007 at 06:34 PM.
09-12-2007, 07:46 PM   #14
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I'd go with the K100D. I've been thinking about this too -- except the K10D versus the K100D. I currently use an *ist DL which is about the same size as the K100D and it's great. It looks too small in my hands but I have big hands and actually find it very comfortable. The benefits of the K100D are less weight, better performance at higher ISO, exposure compatibility with old lenses (***), and low cost. The benefits of the K10D are more pixels, brighter view finder (prism intead of pentamirror), weather sealing, and slightly better anti-shake.

If I was in your shoes I'd get the K100D because of the low cost which will allow you to get the other prime you mentioned. The FA 50mm is steal right now but I would also suggest you check out the FA 35mm as it has a huge reputation for sharpness and the focal length may be more usable then the 50mm depending on your style. I have the FA 50mm and will probably be getting the FA 35mm at some point.

I do think it's a hard choice. I mean, depending on your needs, the GX10 might be the way to go. I've been struggling with the decision for a while and basically decided to stick with what I have. I really want image stabilization but I can't decide.

*** - The GX10/K10D is backwards compatible except exposures are off with the K and M lenses. This can be resolved by swapping out the focusing screen or by working around it (checking the histogram while shooting). It's not a major issue at all but it is slightly annoying in my opinion.
09-13-2007, 04:34 AM   #15
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I have a samsung gx-10. I am new to DSLR photography, so am not really qualified to comment on the relative quality of one jpeg over another but the thought processes I went through we as follows:

1) I want a DSLR camera to replace my film Pentax MZ-5N. I initially decided I wanted to stay with Pentax so I could use my old lenses and flash.
2) Do I buy a K100D or a K10D - well, more MP's the better (although not always true of course) and the larger feature set of the K10D appealled (although there are currently more functions than I know how to work hence I have enrolled on a course which I have mentioned elsewhere).
3) I was all set to buy the K10D when my old man pointed out the GX10. Same camera but for 200 UKP less! Simple choice - who cares whether the name is Korean or not! I can't really comment on service as I haven't needed it.

I read a tip which said always shoot RAW, so I do as it allows me more flexibility when I get back to my Mac with a big monitor to view the shots on. With a 4Gb SDHC card, I can get 280 RAW shots and the card cost me less than 20 UKP including reader. I managed for a whole fortnight on holiday without changing the card (although it was getting tight by the end) but it all depends on how many photos you are going to take between uploads.

OK, so I don't have PEF. I thought DNG was supposed to be a standard but it seems not to be as standard as I thought - my Mac won't natively read them so I can't use Aperture, but Adobe does so I can use that - it does mean I have slightly less choice, but I am hoping they will fix that in an update but it does depend on what your workflow is and what platform you are using.

HTH
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