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10-19-2010, 02:47 PM - 1 Like   #1
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Need.. or just want a new Pentax body ?

I used to watch (my cable provider changed and I think I lost the channel) an excellent car show and one of the hosts would ask...after testing a particularly desirable car....do you really need this car....or just want it !

The car show is "Dream Car Garage" and the host who assessed automotive icon type cars was Tom Hnatiw.


Haven't seen the show for a couple of years.....but I really enjoyed it.

His question (Tom's) is applicable to a number of parts of my life....


I've thought about this dilemma over the years...even back to my film days.

I've got a K10D that I bought....almost to the day...three years ago and a KM (K2000) that I bought about a year and a half ago. The two of them were bought new.

I like them both and both (touch wood ) have been dead reliable.

Recently I helped a friend buy a new KX and I went through the manual and the camera with her...showing all the features.

Was I impressed....the KX has lot's of features on my K10D....but also on the KM, which was the predecessor of the KX.

Technology marches on and waits for no one, I suppose.

Anyways back to my original question....my K10D (and KM), although they may be obsolete, take wonderful pictures.

The KM is nice lightweight camera body and my old K10D is a veritable tank...tough as nails, doesn't flinch even in the toughest conditions.

But after reading about the latest and greatest in the Pentax line, the K-5..I would love to have this camera body.

But aside from higher ISO, faster and more precise AF........which I seem to be doing ok with the slower two, that I have .....do I really need a Pentax K-5 ?

I don't really need it.....I just want it.....boy would I like to have one.

But after thinking about it a lot....I know the prudent course of action is to keep on using the K10D and KM....until they die...until it would be more expensive to fix then what either camera body would be worth.

Ever find yourself in this situation ? How did you address it ?

Les


Last edited by lesmore49; 10-20-2010 at 06:40 AM.
10-19-2010, 02:57 PM - 1 Like   #2
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I have the K10D. I was fine allowing myself to be passed by as the K20D and the K-7 when they came out. The K-5 looks great though, but right now I am not going for it.

I figure that although the K-5 is a more competent camera than the K10D, it is not $1,500 more competent. I would be keen on better performance at higher ISO and I think that the K-5 really shines there but I am not feeling that it is THAT much better. Not enough to justify the price. The reality is that I could not get too much for the K10D if I sold it and I would likely just keep it as a backup body anyway.

Better camera? For sure. I am not sure that is it THAT much better though. And am I not a pro, photography is a hobby so there is no ROI.
10-19-2010, 03:02 PM - 1 Like   #3
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I think most DSLRs these days are great cameras - In most cases if you get a bad picture look to the person holding the camera - not the camera as the source of the problem. For most people spending money on training on DSLR photography, composition and post processing as well as a good alarm clock to get up before dawn to catch sunrise landscapes will have a bigger payback than an new camera. For people using kit zoom lenses, a couple of good prime lens will also help.

After saying all that I want , I still want to retire my K10D and get a K-5
10-19-2010, 03:10 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Ever find yourself in this situation ? How did you address it ?

Les
I think you're addressing it the right way. The way technology improves so rapidly these days, the longer you can make yourself wait to upgrade the better. Even if you decide to buy the K-5, if you can wait for the price to go down that would probably be best.

The reason the K-5 is "worth it" for me is that I do a lot of shooting in terrible light for my freelance work. For an example, I took photos for a newspaper last night of a science demonstration in the basement of a community center -- i.e. not great light. Normally, this is not the sort of light I would choose to work with, but in newspaper photography you don't get to choose, and the K-5 really helped me out. With winter sports also in full swing, I'm thrilled these days if I get to take photos of something outside and not at night. Natural light, oh my!

On the other hand, I have a friend who also freelances and does wedding gigs who has a Canon 5D Mark II, a Canon 1D Mark IV and a Canon 300 mm f/2.8 plus other various lenses and equipment. Those three things alone are probably three times what I've spent on all of my Pentax gear, so clearly I have a spending limit I won't cross as well. It's different for everybody.

As far as the idea of "Need" goes in terms of the hobbyist, I don't know if Need ever enters into it. Unless of course, you look at it from the direction that we all Need joy in our lives. Would the K-5 bring you more joy than your K10D? Maybe, maybe not. If you're not sure it's probably good to wait.

10-19-2010, 03:12 PM   #5
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Great question I think, and judging by the hoopla over the cams and lenses here it might be good for some other people to stop and ask themselves this sort of thing too =).

I got my first camera for 20 years a K-7 just over a year ago and I've done ok with it, a few in PPG, a couple in the collection, a few in Flickr explore, a couple in the local newspaper and a few placements in competitions. But like any photofreak I'd like to do better. I just got a nice big fat unexpected bonus at work so affordability of the K-5 isn't a problem. But, I've hesitated. Why?

Lenses are already sorted. If you're smart you can get old primes pretty cheaply and I got given all sorts of stuff by people and as part of packages (I now have 4 50 f1.7, yeeeeeeeesh, what the hell??). I also bought a few extra, so I'm covered 10-500mm. I'm not the type to go collecting lenses just for the sake of having them so I'll be putting them on the marketplace quite soon.

But what really made me stop on the K-5 was asking myself the simple question "what stops me taking great shots that I like". I realised that a) it was time, with a job, kids and a life I have only 1/2 a morning a week (that's on a good week) to take any shots. So I found some local forests that I can drive to in my lunchtime 5 minutes away so I can take stuff any lunchtime. b) it was knowledge. My photoshop is almost up to par but not quite there, and my technical knowledge isn't bad but I just need to practice more c) it was aesthetics. For example there are plenty of forests near me but I just can't seem to get really interesting shots in them that I'm happy with. So I've been looking a lot online for howto guides, exif data for stuff I like etc.

^^ notice how equipment isn't even one of those three. So whilst I would absolutely love to have that lovely new cam, why should I spend a 4 figure sum on something that isn't going to give me as much of a return as doing something about those other 3 first? So that has left me in the position of saying no, not until I've used this cam fully and can genuinely say it's the cam holding me back, not something else. On another note this K-5 thing is also being marketed so much through the users here as the greatest thing since sliced cheese that it actually puts me off, I hate marketing telling me what to buy. Eventhough I'm a professional technology marketer myself, go figure =).
10-19-2010, 03:28 PM   #6
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Good thinking. The only reason that I am upgrading is because I do a lot of low light sport shots. My K20D is an amazing camera, and I wouldn't think of upgrading if I didn't spend half my life in an arena.
So, I think, that unless you have a decent amount of disposable income, sticking with what you have, is a good way to go. At least until the price drops. Who uses all those features anyway?
10-19-2010, 03:30 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nass Quote
But what really made me stop on the K-5 was asking myself the simple question "what stops me taking great shots that I like". I realised that a) it was time, with a job, kids and a life I have only 1/2 a morning a week (that's on a good week) to take any shots. So I found some local forests that I can drive to in my lunchtime 5 minutes away so I can take stuff any lunchtime. b) it was knowledge. My photoshop is almost up to par but not quite there, and my technical knowledge isn't bad but I just need to practice more c) it was aesthetics. For example there are plenty of forests near me but I just can't seem to get really interesting shots in them that I'm happy with. So I've been looking a lot online for howto guides, exif data for stuff I like etc.
Well said. I think many of us are like this.

For me on knowledge, I decided to get into strobes. In the end, it's about getting motivated and passionate, and gear can be that. Just make sure you are never frustrated because of your gear.
10-19-2010, 03:52 PM   #8
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I'm in the same situation as you (K10D, strongly considering buying a K-5). I very nearly bought a K-x last year, and now I'm glad I didn't.

At the end of the day, the K10D was and is a great camera, nothing wrong with it, I have taken over 20,000 shots and plan to take more. Picture quality is great, and I love the usability and the controls. Recently I have started shooting in continuous 3fps mode and I really love it! Have to try multiple exposures next.

I just realised that I am only now confident enough to use some of the advanced features of this camera.

One advantage of deferring upgrading as long as possible is that cameras just keep getting better and better. I'm sure there will be a "K-3" next year with an increased buffer, better movie mode, and then maybe a "K-1" after that with who knows what new features.

But what interests me about the K-5 is the improved high ISO, improved AF, per lens focus adjustment. Live view may be useful in certain situations, and I may even try out shooting video on it. Plus the K10D has the infamous "bug" with AF on the DA 21mm/3.2 lens, and I'm getting very sick of the hunting and the inability to focus.

I will probably buy the K-5, not at RRP but hopefully once the price drops (or perhaps by joining a "group buy").

10-19-2010, 04:29 PM   #9
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With the K-m and K10, you already have two bodies.
I've had my K10 for 2 years now.

Have pondered about that second body for a while...was going to buy the K-7 this year until the K-5 was released.

For me, it's not about want or need a replacement body, it's all about that second body.
K10 and K-5 is a great partnership.
10-19-2010, 04:35 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
I used to watch (my cable provider changed and I think I lost the channel) an excellent car show and one of the hosts would ask...after testing a particularly desirable car....do you really need this car....or just want it !

Invariably he decided that he really didn't 'need' it...but he sure wanted it.


I've thought about this dilemma over the years...even back to my film days.

I've got a K10D that I bought....almost to the day...three years ago and a KM (K2000) that I bought about a year and a half ago. The two of them were bought new.

I like them both and both (touch wood ) have been dead reliable.

Recently I helped a friend buy a new KX and I went through the manual and the camera with her...showing all the features.

Was I impressed....the KX has lot's of features on my K10D....but also on the KM, which was the predecessor of the KX.

Technology marches on and waits for no one, I suppose.

Anyways back to my original question....my K10D (and KM), although they may be obsolete, take wonderful pictures.

The KM is nice lightweight camera body and my old K10D is a veritable tank...tough as nails, doesn't flinch even in the toughest conditions.

But after reading about the latest and greatest in the Pentax line, the K-5..I would love to have this camera body.

But aside from higher ISO, faster and more precise AF........which I seem to be doing ok with the slower two, that I have .....do I really need a Pentax K-5 ?

I don't really need it.....I just want it.....boy would I like to have one.

But after thinking about it a lot....I know the prudent course of action is to keep on using the K10D and KM....until they die...until it would be more expensive to fix then what either camera body would be worth.

Ever find yourself in this situation ? How did you address it ?

Les
It comes down to a matter of personal choice...and what your priorities in life are.

Friends and family like to give me a hard time because I am always buying new cameras...or have the latest and greatest gadget of one type or another (my Droid X is my latest favorite gizmo)...but that's the kind of stuff that I enjoy and what makes me happy in life.

Some time ago (probably 5-7 years ago maybe) a family member was teasing me about my camera when I got a new one..."Must be nice to be able to afford a new camera every year" and such snide comments. Said family member, shall we say, likes the beer and other related beverages. I asked him what he spends a week on average, on the "night life", and to add it out over a year. Turns out with what this person spends on beverages in a year, let's just say I could buy the latest and greatest body and a couple nice lenses every year for the same amount. I said, bottom line...that's what makes you happy, I don't judge and tell you to not waste your money on beer and going out several nights a week (I'm not a big drinker myself)...so show me the same respect.

Now as far as my personal choice...I don't care if something is a marginal upgrade...if I want it and feel the upgraded features are useful, and I can afford it, I'll buy it. I love my K-7, and I get beautiful images out of it...however I do like to do alot of available light shooting in sometimes not-so-great lighting...so the high ISO of the K-5 is a big turn on for me so I'll probably be snagging one in the near future.

So bottom line is...you gotta do what makes you happy...life's too short to do otherwise. Good luck with your decision!
10-19-2010, 04:37 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nass Quote
Great question I think, and judging by the hoopla over the cams and lenses here it might be good for some other people to stop and ask themselves this sort of thing too =).

I got my first camera for 20 years a K-7 just over a year ago and I've done ok with it, a few in PPG, a couple in the collection, a few in Flickr explore, a couple in the local newspaper and a few placements in competitions. But like any photofreak I'd like to do better. I just got a nice big fat unexpected bonus at work so affordability of the K-5 isn't a problem. But, I've hesitated. Why?

Lenses are already sorted. If you're smart you can get old primes pretty cheaply and I got given all sorts of stuff by people and as part of packages (I now have 4 50 f1.7, yeeeeeeeesh, what the hell??). I also bought a few extra, so I'm covered 10-500mm. I'm not the type to go collecting lenses just for the sake of having them so I'll be putting them on the marketplace quite soon.

But what really made me stop on the K-5 was asking myself the simple question "what stops me taking great shots that I like". I realised that a) it was time, with a job, kids and a life I have only 1/2 a morning a week (that's on a good week) to take any shots. So I found some local forests that I can drive to in my lunchtime 5 minutes away so I can take stuff any lunchtime. b) it was knowledge. My photoshop is almost up to par but not quite there, and my technical knowledge isn't bad but I just need to practice more c) it was aesthetics. For example there are plenty of forests near me but I just can't seem to get really interesting shots in them that I'm happy with. So I've been looking a lot online for howto guides, exif data for stuff I like etc.

^^ notice how equipment isn't even one of those three. So whilst I would absolutely love to have that lovely new cam, why should I spend a 4 figure sum on something that isn't going to give me as much of a return as doing something about those other 3 first? So that has left me in the position of saying no, not until I've used this cam fully and can genuinely say it's the cam holding me back, not something else. On another note this K-5 thing is also being marketed so much through the users here as the greatest thing since sliced cheese that it actually puts me off, I hate marketing telling me what to buy. Eventhough I'm a professional technology marketer myself, go figure =).
Time....yes, time makes a big difference.

I retired about 2 + years ago from a demanding career. I was a professional and a manager of other professionals.

Lot's of stress. Also married and two kids...as you.

Without all those demands on my time....I found for about 30 + years I didn't have much opportunity to spend on anything else, including photography which has been a passion, more or less for the past 42 years.

Now my kids are adults with their own lives, my wife still works and I have much more time to devote to photography.

Boy has it made a difference. Time to spend on my photography...early mornings...sun sets...the golden hour.....before I was too exhausted....now I have time.

My advice ? We all have to work...well most of us anyway. But when the time comes, if you enjoy photography, consider retiring when you can...if retirement income allows.

We only have so much time in this world...put some of it aside to pursue your passions.

Digital....has made a huge difference. I can click away without worrying about film costs, developing costs....I can see what I've taken....make an adjustment and try another way....in the next few seconds.

It's made a huge difference in my photography....I'm no Karsh or Cartier-Bresson....but even with my limited skills...t=more time and more practice, more photography, more assessment of my work has made a huge difference in my photography.
10-19-2010, 05:09 PM   #12
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True, but what price do you put on top quality photos that you will look at 10, 20, or 30 years down the road?

As it is now, I kick myself for sticking with a "basic" Canon 30D for much of 2001~2007 instead of making those incremental upgrades to higher megapixel models during the first 6 years of my son's and 3 years of my daughter's early years.


QuoteOriginally posted by Howard2k Quote
And am I not a pro, photography is a hobby so there is no ROI.
10-19-2010, 05:45 PM   #13
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I’ve been in this situation, and I found it very easy to address.
1) First, you need to sell both of your cameras and recover approximately $700 by doing so.
2) Now the question of whether you NEED or WANT a K-5 is much easier to answer. Of course you NEED one, since you don’t have any camera at that point
3) If you apply $700 from the first step towards the purchase of K-5, you only need to spend another $900, and for that price I wouldn’t even bother with silly questions of whether I need or want new K-5. QED
10-19-2010, 05:46 PM   #14
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need

I have decided that I actually need to upgrade to the k5, not just want to. Im exploring the possibility of starting to make some money with my photography. The k20 has been great to learn on, but im finally starting to bump up against the edged of its capabilities, especially with autofocus. Its fine if i miss a shot due and its just for my hobby, but I cant do that if im getting paid. Its time to relegate the ol k20d to backup status.
10-19-2010, 06:37 PM   #15
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For enthusiast use, the K10D or even the *ist D are ideal for landscape photography, provided poster prints aren't required. Action and sports photography take a lot more guts for the camera to stay with the subject and capture it in quick succession. The K-5 and its competitors seem to fit this requirement reasonably well.

Then you have pros - bigger budget, higher level of performance demands. Even still, the *ist D and K10D have been used in this capacity, and those same cameras could do just fine even today, but there comes a point where capturing the right moment with a faster, more responsive camera makes the difference between getting and missing the quintessential capture. So the 'need' for the faster and more responsive gear can be easily justified.

For a simple enthusiast like myself, not often found dabbling in fast action events or rugged terrain, the K10D has consistently stayed above my demand for performance, apart from the occasional low-light scene I find myself wanting to capture. So if I *always* wanted the ability to capture any shot I want, I too could justify the K-5, but truth be told, I don't really need it. Using advanced equipment is always a treat, though.
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