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11-01-2010, 04:17 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
That does sound a little bit to hard.
Well, the Pentax PRIME-2 processor is a (possibly customized version of the) Fujitsu Milbeaut M5 processor. M4 had a 132MHz 32Bit RISC core, 66 MHz 16 Bit DSP and is 90nm, M5 is 65nm and little else is known. Some say Canon Digic is Milbeaut too. I attach a chart of the M4.

My point was that the PRIME-2 has to stream 400 Mbit/s image date for the K-m, 590 MBit/s for the 645D, 860 MBit/s for the K-7 and now 1500 MBit/s for the K-5. I guess anything beyond 1 GBit/s on this qualifies for applause. Which was my point.

QuoteOriginally posted by JamieP Quote
Maybe Miserere can provide some more context around this part of his discussion with Ned.
I'm sure Ned isn't at war with HQ. I guess Japan management did not acknowledge the difficulties engineering was facing and (what Ned is teaching us) still isn't.

QuoteOriginally posted by jolepp Quote
The quotes around "simple" were to convey the idea that this isn't in fact so simple: I'm all for more appreciation for SW engineers like myself .
Brothers in compilers

And one thing is for sure: I wouldn't want to program that M5 mess. PS3 games are probably less pain


Last edited by falconeye; 06-23-2012 at 03:10 AM.
11-02-2010, 01:50 AM   #32
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Interesting, not that it matters but that is not the M4 is it? I checked it out and the M4 was called FBGA-506 according to the paper I found.
11-02-2010, 01:59 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Well, the Pentax PRIME-2 processor is a (possibly customized version of the) Fujitsu Milbeaut M5 processor. M4 had a 132MHz 32Bit RISC core, 66 MHz 16 Bit DSP and is 90nm, M5 is 65nm and little else is known. Some say Canon Digic is Milbeaut too. I attach a chart of the M4.
Is this proven or pure speculation?
11-02-2010, 03:14 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
Interesting, not that it matters but that is not the M4 is it? I checked it out and the M4 was called FBGA-506 according to the paper I found.
Attaching M4 I said, correct.
There seem to be different variants of the M4, depending on features. I attached the M4AL (or so, don't remember). It doesn't matter because Pentax used the M5 and may have been customized for Pentax.

BTW, FBGA-506 is a packaging term (506 pins fine pitch ball grid array), not a product name.

QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Is this proven or pure speculation?
It is the consensus.

Pentax stated themselves the PRIME-2 is Fujitsu-made and the firmware is FR80 or FR90 binary code for sure. The memory is DDR2 with 1GBit/s bandwidth (so, it can't be the M4) and the chip is a BGA with 400+ pins (can even been seen in my cut model photo). M5 is the consensus as it is Fujitsu's current top product. Of course, there may be customized versions.

A less well known fact is the face recognition which on Pentax, is hardware-accelerated due to Fotonation supporting the Milbeaut: TESSERA | News (10 faces in 100ms). The firmware binary contains copyright credit to Fotonation face detection. I wished Fotonation would do a contrast AF. They seem to be more capable than most. Fotonation is based in San Jose so Pentax contains US parts

I think you can google up more good evidence if you have any doubts.


A more debated issue is if Canon is using the Milbeaut as well. A majority seems to think that the Digic-4 processor is a variant of the M5, customized and in a different package. Note that the 7D uses dual Digic-4 processors.


UPDATE. Just found this (filed 2010, Oct 27):
QuoteQuote:
Image Enhancement Technology Enables Advanced Video Capabilities in Fujitsu Semiconductor’s Milbeaut Chips

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Tessera Technologies, Inc. (Nasdaq:TSRA) today announced that Fujitsu Semiconductor Limited has licensed Tessera’s OptiML™ Video Tools hardware acceleration technology to enhance the video and imaging capabilities in its Milbeaut chipsets.

Fujitsu Semiconductor’s Milbeaut chips provide low power consumption and high performance for the most advanced imaging technology in compact digital cameras and cell phones. By incorporating the Tessera technology, these chips can now offer optimum use of computing resources, enabling smaller, lighter, slimmer devices.

“With Tessera’s innovative hardware acceleration IP core, we are better able to meet the demand for high-quality video in our Milbeaut chipsets,” said Tom Miyake, senior vice president, Advanced Products Business Unit, Fujitsu Semiconductor Limited. “By incorporating this Tessera technology, we are able to offer our customers additional capabilities to take better quality, more impressive video with little or no extra effort.”

“Our latest video tool offering is targeted at the rapidly emerging video capture market and provides optimum image quality combined with highly efficient overall system processing operation,” said Michael Bereziuk, executive vice president, Imaging & Optics, Tessera. “Since they are a leading chip-set provider to the digital camera and cell phone markets, we are especially pleased that Fujitsu Semiconductor has chosen to use our solution for their next generation product offerings.”

The OptiML Video Tools solution enables the capture and recording of clear, high-quality videos. The technology combines image processing hardware and software in a single solution to maximize camera performance while reducing demands on system resources. The hardware acceleration is used for computationally intensive tasks, with the remainder of the image processing is carried out by the software.

Fujitsu’s Milbeaut chipsets are used in digital still cameras and cell phones.

The OptiML Video Tools solution is available for licensing now.
So, there will be an M6 and Pentax will have a source for a Prime-3 processor.

Also, because of:
QuoteQuote:
OptiML Video Tools provide optimized video image stabilization and video face beautification capabilities for mobile
devices such as camera phones, pocket camcorders and digital still cameras. The Video Image Stabilization
technology significantly improves video quality by removing jerks and frame jumps and the Video Face Beautification
technology softens skin tones and removes blemishes.
http://www.tessera.com/technologies/imagingandoptics/Documents/VideoTools_flyer.pdf

we already know today that Pentax cameras launched later in 2011 will feature enhanced video stabilization. We know it probably even before Pentax knows it


One last word,

in one other thread, a fellow member joked that his K-5 focusses by preference on the prettiest girl on the room.
Actually, this can be a feature indeed. If you look the Tessara (Fotonation) video how their video tools beautify detected female faces in real time during a video recording, they may well have a gender detection in their package. It doesn't seem to be an official feature though.


Last edited by falconeye; 11-02-2010 at 04:18 AM.
11-02-2010, 03:36 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Attaching M4 I said, correct.
What I meant was that the M4 comes in a FBGA-506 package and thus it isn't the one you attached. But ok, there might be multiple versions available and I just stumbled on one of the others.
11-02-2010, 04:28 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
What I meant was that the M4 comes in a FBGA-506 package and thus it isn't the one you attached. But ok, there might be multiple versions available and I just stumbled on one of the others.
Ok, the variant you are mentioning is the 2 channel version and more likely the one used in the K20D. I replaced my chart, also because it explicitely mentions the hardware support for RAW compression.
11-02-2010, 04:42 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I replaced my chart, also because it explicitely mentions the hardware support for RAW compression.
But where does the NR happen.

11-02-2010, 04:48 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
One last word,

in one other thread, a fellow member joked that his K-5 focusses by preference on the prettiest girl on the room.
Actually, this can be a feature indeed. If you look the Tessara (Fotonation) video how their video tools beautify detected female faces in real time during a video recording, they may well have a gender detection in their package. It doesn't seem to be an official feature though.
Aren't there are already cameras with face recognition so when they detect multiple faces they will search the onboard "database" for a match and then focus on them? When girlfriend is present, focus on her.

I think I read that somewhere.

"face beautification" scary stuff.

11-02-2010, 06:21 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
But where does the NR happen.
Assuming you mean raw NR.

The K20D already did it (M4) and it must happen in the block denoted "pre-process" bypassing the Bayer1 block (prior to Bayer2). Ordinary NR (for JPG) happens in an own block denoted "NR" though.
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