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curiouspeter · 11-06-2010, 11:37 AM - **1 Like**

No. I think Pentax should focus on APS-C and 645.

K5 has shown that improvement on electronics alone can do wonders. Issues like shallow DOF and diffraction-limited resolution cannot be solved easily, but medium format can be the answer.

For $2000+ I rather see a modular system with user-replaceable sensors. People can use a non-Bayer BW sensor, a deep-well native ISO 25 landscape sensor, and a high-sensitivity sports sensor. Wouldn't this be cool? They can even charge $1000+ for each module and IMO people will still buy it.

Parallax · 11-06-2010, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by curiouspeter

....................For $2000+ I rather see a modular system with user-replaceable sensors. People can use a non-Bayer BW sensor, a deep-well native ISO 25 landscape sensor, and a high-sensitivity sports sensor. Wouldn't this be cool? They can even charge $1000+ for each module and IMO people will still buy it.

You know, the geek in me really likes that idea. The smart-ass in me feels obliged to say "It already exists, it's called film".

Seriously, I think it is great idea. Different sensors have different strengths and weaknesses, and different suitabilities for different applications, just as lenses do. Why not interchangeable sensors?
Rep points for that.

curiouspeter · 11-06-2010, 12:14 PM

Ooh... Sensor Buying Addition - SBA

People will have to collect different sensors for subtle differences in color and "look". I think this can be more profitable to the camera manufacturers than forcing people to buy only one body upgrade every two years.

Besides, which is more likely to receive approval?

"Honey, I think I need a new camera."
"Honey, I am getting some digital film for my camera."

LOL

**Kerrowdown** · 11-06-2010, 12:19 PM

Hey buy one, I'd have a couple.

Biro · 11-06-2010, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by v5planet

Why does it seem like 1 in 5 threads on this forum start or end with someone fitfully fantasizing over FF? Call me naive, but with sensor technology improving day after day, is anyone really going to care about this a few years from now? (Does Pentax care now?)

The posts keep being made because there is a hard-core minority of Pentaxians who want a FF DSLR. I am not among them... but it doesn't make it any less so. Nonetheless, in the string about the DxO results for the K-5 sensor, it become obvious what you're saying is true: Sensor and software technology are advancing rapidly enough that soon FF will likely be irrelevant for most - but not all - photographic uses.

Of course, FF will remain superior to APS-C as it will also enjoy those same sensor and processing improvements. But at what point will we reach the point of diminishing returns? At what point will most people - including serious photographers - be unable to tell the difference except at 100% enlargement under the worst-possible conditions? At what point will the images rendered by FF be better than our eyes can discern?

It's likely, in my opinion, that there will soon be a migration to APS-C by many current FF users. But not everyone. There will continue to be demand for FF by an ever-smaller group of hard-core enthusiasts or professionals who have unique requirements. In that respect, if FF continues to be available, these people will pay a hefty premium for the privilege of using the format. FF could become the new medium format - or perhaps eventually be squeezed out by ever-cheaper medium-format cameras. I'm making no predictions there.

As far as your other question: Does Pentax care about those still dreaming about a new FF DSLR? It's hard to say what's going on behind the closed doors at Hoya/Pentax. But I'll say this much: The company has given absolutely no indication that any FF camera is in development and has actually said more than once that there is not.

And, for the record, I go with option 2: The K-5 is more than enough. But that's just me.

herzzreh · 11-07-2010, 06:53 AM

For me, it's not about image quality. I'd be happy with K5.. heck, I'm even happy with my trusty k10d.

My biggest peeve is the lenses! I want 31mm to be 31mm, I want 40mm to be 40mm, I want 28mm to be 28mm!

yusuf · 11-07-2010, 06:59 AM

We should have fantasy group, this topic keeps on coming with a different title ...yawn....

**NaClH2O** · 11-07-2010, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by rawr

Obligatory.

NaCl(nice one rawr)H2O

**NaClH2O** · 11-07-2010, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by herzzreh

For me, it's not about image quality. I'd be happy with K5.. heck, I'm even happy with my trusty k10d.

My biggest peeve is the lenses! I want 31mm to be 31mm, I want 40mm to be 40mm, I want 28mm to be 28mm!

So who changed physics? Last time I looked 31mm was 31mm; 40mm was 40mm; and 28mm was 28mm.
* goes to international bureau of standards*.....yep! Still the same!

NaCl(isn't physics amazing?)H2O

wll · 11-07-2010, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by v5planet

Why does it seem like 1 in 5 threads on this forum start or end with someone fitfully fantasizing over FF? Call me naive, but with sensor technology improving day after day, is anyone really going to care about this a few years from now? (Does Pentax care now?)

v5planet:

Put a fork in the FF thing, you are correct IMHO. Sensor technology is leaping forward day by day and who needs to lug around HUGE camera bodies, HUGE lenses and the expense of those.

Right now the hot thing is small ... 4/3 cameras and small Evil APS-C bodies and lenses. I'm sure Pentax does have something planed in this regard.

Ya, "APS-C IS THE NEW FF" IMHO. Wait till Sony or ? comes up with the next generation of sensor. Maybe no ISO setting at all, as it is a moot point .... just shoot in ANY light and the sensor will pick it up, who knows ?

The K-5 Sensor and Pentax's engineering department is pretty close to that now !

wll

paperbag846 · 11-07-2010, 08:44 AM

Pentax 135 spotted in the wild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:

Pentaxor · 11-07-2010, 10:44 AM

finally, a FULL-FRAME. Ooppps, only in dreamland, but who cares? it's a good dream.

Parallax · 11-07-2010, 11:04 AM

I can't help but wonder, if the internet had been around when roll film cameras came about, how many thousands of forum threads there would have been complaining that they weren't "Full Frame" i.e. 4"x5" or 8"x10".

herzzreh · 11-07-2010, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by NaClH2O

So who changed physics? Last time I looked 31mm was 31mm; 40mm was 40mm; and 28mm was 28mm.
* goes to international bureau of standards*.....yep! Still the same!

NaCl(isn't physics amazing?)H2O

Blah... I don't want the crop factor to be thrown in there!

Parallax · 11-07-2010, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by herzzreh

Blah... I don't want the crop factor to be thrown in there!

What about the "crop factor" involved when using, say, an 85mm lens on 135 format vs 6x7?

11-07-2010, 11:04 AM	#43
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,333	I can't help but wonder, if the internet had been around when roll film cameras came about, how many thousands of forum threads there would have been complaining that they weren't "Full Frame" i.e. 4"x5" or 8"x10". Last edited by Parallax; 11-07-2010 at 11:41 AM.

11-06-2010, 11:37 AM - 1 Like	#31
curiouspeter Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 34	No. I think Pentax should focus on APS-C and 645. K5 has shown that improvement on electronics alone can do wonders. Issues like shallow DOF and diffraction-limited resolution cannot be solved easily, but medium format can be the answer. For $2000+ I rather see a modular system with user-replaceable sensors. People can use a non-Bayer BW sensor, a deep-well native ISO 25 landscape sensor, and a high-sensitivity sports sensor. Wouldn't this be cool? They can even charge $1000+ for each module and IMO people will still buy it.

11-06-2010, 11:46 AM	#32
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,333	Originally posted by curiouspeter ....................For $2000+ I rather see a modular system with user-replaceable sensors. People can use a non-Bayer BW sensor, a deep-well native ISO 25 landscape sensor, and a high-sensitivity sports sensor. Wouldn't this be cool? They can even charge $1000+ for each module and IMO people will still buy it. You know, the geek in me really likes that idea. The smart-ass in me feels obliged to say "It already exists, it's called film". Seriously, I think it is great idea. Different sensors have different strengths and weaknesses, and different suitabilities for different applications, just as lenses do. Why not interchangeable sensors? Rep points for that.

11-06-2010, 12:14 PM	#33
curiouspeter Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 34	Ooh... Sensor Buying Addition - SBA People will have to collect different sensors for subtle differences in color and "look". I think this can be more profitable to the camera manufacturers than forcing people to buy only one body upgrade every two years. Besides, which is more likely to receive approval? "Honey, I think I need a new camera." "Honey, I am getting some digital film for my camera." LOL

11-06-2010, 12:19 PM	#34
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,867	Hey buy one, I'd have a couple.

11-06-2010, 12:45 PM	#35
Biro Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,200	Originally posted by v5planet Why does it seem like 1 in 5 threads on this forum start or end with someone fitfully fantasizing over FF? Call me naive, but with sensor technology improving day after day, is anyone really going to care about this a few years from now? (Does Pentax care now?) The posts keep being made because there is a hard-core minority of Pentaxians who want a FF DSLR. I am not among them... but it doesn't make it any less so. Nonetheless, in the string about the DxO results for the K-5 sensor, it become obvious what you're saying is true: Sensor and software technology are advancing rapidly enough that soon FF will likely be irrelevant for most - but not all - photographic uses. Of course, FF will remain superior to APS-C as it will also enjoy those same sensor and processing improvements. But at what point will we reach the point of diminishing returns? At what point will most people - including serious photographers - be unable to tell the difference except at 100% enlargement under the worst-possible conditions? At what point will the images rendered by FF be better than our eyes can discern? It's likely, in my opinion, that there will soon be a migration to APS-C by many current FF users. But not everyone. There will continue to be demand for FF by an ever-smaller group of hard-core enthusiasts or professionals who have unique requirements. In that respect, if FF continues to be available, these people will pay a hefty premium for the privilege of using the format. FF could become the new medium format - or perhaps eventually be squeezed out by ever-cheaper medium-format cameras. I'm making no predictions there. As far as your other question: Does Pentax care about those still dreaming about a new FF DSLR? It's hard to say what's going on behind the closed doors at Hoya/Pentax. But I'll say this much: The company has given absolutely no indication that any FF camera is in development and has actually said more than once that there is not. And, for the record, I go with option 2: The K-5 is more than enough. But that's just me.

11-07-2010, 06:53 AM	#36
herzzreh Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 72	For me, it's not about image quality. I'd be happy with K5.. heck, I'm even happy with my trusty k10d. My biggest peeve is the lenses! I want 31mm to be 31mm, I want 40mm to be 40mm, I want 28mm to be 28mm!

11-07-2010, 06:59 AM	#37
yusuf Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palo Alto, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,497	We should have fantasy group, this topic keeps on coming with a different title ...yawn....

11-07-2010, 07:08 AM	#38
NaClH2O Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bronx NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,631	Originally posted by rawr Obligatory. NaCl(nice one rawr)H2O

11-07-2010, 07:16 AM	#39
NaClH2O Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bronx NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,631	Originally posted by herzzreh For me, it's not about image quality. I'd be happy with K5.. heck, I'm even happy with my trusty k10d. My biggest peeve is the lenses! I want 31mm to be 31mm, I want 40mm to be 40mm, I want 28mm to be 28mm! So who changed physics? Last time I looked 31mm was 31mm; 40mm was 40mm; and 28mm was 28mm. * goes to international bureau of standards*.....yep! Still the same! NaCl(isn't physics amazing?)H2O

11-07-2010, 08:10 AM	#40
wll Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mission Hills, CA Posts: 773	Originally posted by v5planet Why does it seem like 1 in 5 threads on this forum start or end with someone fitfully fantasizing over FF? Call me naive, but with sensor technology improving day after day, is anyone really going to care about this a few years from now? (Does Pentax care now?) v5planet: Put a fork in the FF thing, you are correct IMHO. Sensor technology is leaping forward day by day and who needs to lug around HUGE camera bodies, HUGE lenses and the expense of those. Right now the hot thing is small ... 4/3 cameras and small Evil APS-C bodies and lenses. I'm sure Pentax does have something planed in this regard. Ya, "APS-C IS THE NEW FF" IMHO. Wait till Sony or ? comes up with the next generation of sensor. Maybe no ISO setting at all, as it is a moot point .... just shoot in ANY light and the sensor will pick it up, who knows ? The K-5 Sensor and Pentax's engineering department is pretty close to that now ! wll

11-07-2010, 08:44 AM	#41
paperbag846 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,395	Pentax 135 spotted in the wild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:

11-07-2010, 10:44 AM	#42
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	finally, a FULL-FRAME. Ooppps, only in dreamland, but who cares? it's a good dream.

11-07-2010, 11:27 AM	#44
herzzreh Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 72	Originally posted by NaClH2O So who changed physics? Last time I looked 31mm was 31mm; 40mm was 40mm; and 28mm was 28mm. * goes to international bureau of standards*.....yep! Still the same! NaCl(isn't physics amazing?)H2O Blah... I don't want the crop factor to be thrown in there!

11-07-2010, 11:30 AM	#45
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,333	Originally posted by herzzreh Blah... I don't want the crop factor to be thrown in there! What about the "crop factor" involved when using, say, an 85mm lens on 135 format vs 6x7?

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