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11-10-2010, 11:06 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Apparently it doesn't cook, clean and vacuum.
It also doesn't do laundry, wash walls or wax the car.
In it's favour, it doesn't shed.
damn, you're right, i see it now. horrible. and there i was, rambling on about sensor and all that meaningless crap.

totally offtopic (may i be forgiven, but i think that's a feature not a bug, in this case :P ): i finally pulled the trigger after so many years of "thinking about it": i have a border collie.. and one af lens for my k20d: the kit lens.. guess what? (hint: i love my samyiang 85/1.4, but before i can focus the damn thing, he's already gone off, took a crap, peed, charged some innocent people passing by, and came back to see if i'm still at it -- but slightly closer or further..). something like this:

quark

my conclusion is: we need to work hard on training. maybe i can even teach him focus fine tune commands "closer, a bit" "further, there! freeze!" . i just thought you'd find it amusing

and to get slightly back on track, here's a recent shot from the outdated k20d sensor. hand held, and in "trying" dynamic range conditions. it's distinguishable from point&shoot quality, so i guess i'm happy.



and one more thing: i have a friend who, after much deliberation, chose the canon 50d (instead of the k-7). it breaks my heart, he has certainly gotten an overall lower value for money (to put it lightly). the reason is very interesting though: lens prices way too high compared to canon, for the nice glass he wanted (this includes a humble fast 50). trust me, there's nothign wrong with the k-7, other things might be a problem, but the k-7, imho, never was, it was excellent as it was released, it's still top notch if you exclude the latest releases (k-5, d7000, no need to exclude canon 7d though, for instance, which is interesting). anyway, imho, have fun shooting, stop worrying

11-10-2010, 11:10 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote
damn, you're right, i see it now. horrible. and there i was, rambling on about sensor and all that meaningless crap.

totally offtopic (may i be forgiven, but i think that's a feature not a bug, in this case :P ): i finally pulled the trigger after so many years of "thinking about it": i have a border collie.. and one af lens for my k20d: the kit lens.. guess what? (hint: i love my samyiang 85/1.4, but before i can focus the damn thing, he's already gone off, took a crap, peed, charged some innocent people passing by, and came back to see if i'm still at it -- but slightly closer or further..). something like this:

quark

my conclusion is: we need to work hard on training. maybe i can even teach him focus fine tune commands "closer, a bit" "further, there! freeze!" . i just thought you'd find it amusing

and to get slightly back on track, here's a recent shot from the outdated k20d sensor. hand held, and in "trying" dynamic range conditions. it's distinguishable from point&shoot quality, so i guess i'm happy.

lmao


11-10-2010, 11:25 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Is that your sister? I want to marry her.
one minute you want to marry her then you post this



QuoteQuote:
Apparently it doesn't cook, clean and vacuum.
It also doesn't do laundry, wash walls or wax the car.
In it's favour, it doesn't shed.


very funny


cheers

Neil
11-11-2010, 10:18 AM   #94
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If the sensor is the Achilles Heel of K-7, can we just remove the sensor and plug in a new one. When I am in Philippines next year, I will go to the factory and ask them to put in a K-5 sensor on my K-7.


Last edited by violini; 11-11-2010 at 10:23 AM.
11-11-2010, 10:20 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by violini Quote
If the sensor is the Achilles Heel of K-7, can we just remove the sensor and plug in a new one.
they just did >>> K5.
11-11-2010, 10:32 AM   #96
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Here in Czech republic I see lots of K-7 being sold by their previous owners. The same for older Pentax DSLR. The total number of Pentax body second hand offers is 4 times the usual. They are all getting the K-5 probably, hence no K-5 in shops, all preorder. Will this madness ever end?
11-11-2010, 11:13 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by nulla Quote
one minute you want to marry her then you post this







very funny


cheers

Neil
I suspect I could find it in my heart to forgive her for not doing the chores, but I was actually talking about the K7 in my second post.
11-11-2010, 02:07 PM   #98
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I think the DXO scores for the K-7 were off. I had a Canon Rebel XTI that was unusable over ISO 400 and had terrible DR. My K-7 in contrast, although it scored lower in DXO, can be used up to ISO 1600 cleanly and the DR seems a good stop to two better.

That said, the K-5 is dreamy, so I'd love to upgrade, but I will by no means be able to afford it until it gets sub $1k, and even then I could only do it if I could at least get $500 for my K-7.

Long story short...I'll hold onto my K-7 for a couple years likely, unless I start making money at this goofy hobby! :P

11-11-2010, 02:22 PM   #99
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I think the development of APS-C sensor is approaching the limit. K-5 (and K-7 to some extent) represents the mature technology of these type of cameras. We probably won't see any dramatic improvement in APS-C sensors. Some time next year if I get a K-5, I would keep it for at least 10 years. Let's look back to the dying days of film cameras. Pentax made MZ-3, culminated at MZ-S in 2001. They also produced several lesser models for the general public. Some one on ebay gave me a ZX-5n for free. The price of a clean MZ-S is still quite high, even higher than some used K-7.

A sensitive instrument (DXO) can measure minute differences among various sensors. I don't know how much that can be translated into significant real life performance. The weak link is in the lens. If you are using the kit lens, there probably won't be much difference between K-7 and K-5.

Last edited by violini; 11-11-2010 at 02:27 PM.
11-11-2010, 03:18 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by violini Quote
I think the development of APS-C sensor is approaching the limit. K-5 (and K-7 to some extent) represents the mature technology of these type of cameras. We probably won't see any dramatic improvement in APS-C sensors. Some time next year if I get a K-5, I would keep it for at least 10 years. Let's look back to the dying days of film cameras. Pentax made MZ-3, culminated at MZ-S in 2001. They also produced several lesser models for the general public. Some one on ebay gave me a ZX-5n for free. The price of a clean MZ-S is still quite high, even higher than some used K-7.

A sensitive instrument (DXO) can measure minute differences among various sensors. I don't know how much that can be translated into significant real life performance. The weak link is in the lens. If you are using the kit lens, there probably won't be much difference between K-7 and K-5.
personally, I think it just started or restarted. this is the first time that APS-C CMOS sensor had reached high-end capability and even upstage to a significant extent higher end cameras in terms of DR. they can still improve in that department and at lowlight ISO as well. besides that, present APS-C sensors have yet to duplicate what Fuji was able to achieve in their S5Pro camera. with now a much improved High ISO and higher MP resolution count, just imagine if they have that kind of High DR consistency from base ISO through Higher ISOs.
11-11-2010, 03:28 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
personally, I think it just started or restarted. this is the first time that APS-C CMOS sensor had reached high-end capability and even upstage to a significant extent higher end cameras in terms of DR. they can still improve in that department and at lowlight ISO as well. besides that, present APS-C sensors have yet to duplicate what Fuji was able to achieve in their S5Pro camera. with now a much improved High ISO and higher MP resolution count, just imagine if they have that kind of High DR consistency from base ISO through Higher ISOs.
What is it that Fuji had in the S5pro that the K-5 can't reproduce?

I tried think of a way to word that questions that doesn't sounds pissy or challenging, but I couldn't figure out a way and gave up. I actually don't know. I thought the big deal with the S5 was the DR, and I thought the K-5 surpassed it in that respect.
11-11-2010, 04:01 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffshaddix Quote
That said, the K-5 is dreamy, so I'd love to upgrade, but I will by no means be able to afford it until it gets sub $1k, and even then I could only do it if I could at least get $500 for my K-7.
I just can't understand that - here a used K-7 still goes for equivalent of almost 1000$.
11-11-2010, 04:12 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
What is it that Fuji had in the S5pro that the K-5 can't reproduce?

I tried think of a way to word that questions that doesn't sounds pissy or challenging, but I couldn't figure out a way and gave up. I actually don't know. I thought the big deal with the S5 was the DR, and I thought the K-5 surpassed it in that respect.
refer to the DR graph >>> DxOMark - Compare sensors

take notice of the dynamic range graph. with the exception of ISOs beyond 800 (which is understandable of the nature of forced High ISO boost in the Fuji), the Fuji's DR performance is steady,while the K-5 shows a significant DR drop as it progressed along High ISOs. the DR difference between the two cameras is more than 1 and 1/2 stops. I believe the future APS-C sensors can improve on this as far as DR consistency is concerned or atleast get more DR along High ISOs which is great to have. for someone that would need more stops in situations, this is a great capability to have in retaining details at High ISOs.

Last edited by Pentaxor; 11-11-2010 at 04:28 PM.
11-11-2010, 05:52 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
What is it that Fuji had in the S5pro that the K-5 can't reproduce?

I tried think of a way to word that questions that doesn't sounds pissy or challenging, but I couldn't figure out a way and gave up. I actually don't know. I thought the big deal with the S5 was the DR, and I thought the K-5 surpassed it in that respect.
Google "Super CCD".
The Fuji sensor had another pixel point in the array that just captured luminance or some such.
11-11-2010, 06:33 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Google "Super CCD".
The Fuji sensor had another pixel point in the array that just captured luminance or some such.
and more recently >>> Fujifilm announces Super CCD EXR: Digital Photography Review
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