In your opinion, which is better... in camera sharpening or photo editor?

slip · 12-04-2006, 01:41 PM

I was wondering the opinions on which you like better, in camera sharpening, or sharpening from a program like photoshop?

which is more effective in the outcome of the photos?
referring to jpg not raw

any opinions welcome

randy

kjask · 12-04-2006, 02:02 PM

Hi Randy!

I prefer sharpening at the end of (eventually) postproduction. I work with Picture Window Pro for this and I found it the best in sharpening - much better than USM in PS!! But I don't know about the in camera sharpening in K10d... I own istDS

here is one of my JPG photo, taken with kit lens 18-55, resized and sharpened with PWP. I am very satisfied with the result.

slip · 12-04-2006, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by kjask

Hi Randy!

I prefer sharpening at the end of (eventually) postproduction. I work with Picture Window Pro for this and I found it the best in sharpening - much better than USM in PS!! But I don't know about the in camera sharpening in K10d... I own istDS

here is one of my JPG photo, taken with kit lens 18-55, resized and sharpened with PWP. I am very satisfied with the result.

Thank you for replying, Kjask!
That is a great, sharp image!
have you tried the smart sharpen filter in CS2? I am not sure if it is as good as the program you are referring to or not. It does let you have more control over sharpening then USM.
Does sharpening in Picture window pro shift the colors? is there an option like in cs2 to sharpen in LAB mode so the colors don't shift?

sounds like a good program. might have to try it myself

thanks

kjask · 12-04-2006, 02:46 PM

You're wellcome, randy!

I believe "smart sharpen filter" in PS CS2 is the same as "advanced sharpening" in PWP, but I didn't try it - I didn't need to..

You can download PWP and tryout for one month - it's much cheaper than PS, but it has also excellent tools for editing photos. (you can download it here: Digital Light & Color - Welcome - What's New and here is a great introduction: Picture WIndow Pro introduction )

I don't know about shifting colours - I just make sharpening with two parameters: sharpening amount and radius. it's easy, fast and makes great results.

It's free to try! And I recommend everyone to try it...

arbutusq · 12-04-2006, 03:36 PM

I do all my sharpening in PS using usm on a layer set to luminosity blend, I use 500,.5,4( the last varies from photo to photo.) this gives my razor sharp appearance with no visible haloes. I will set sharpening in camera to low.

Of course that works with my D70. Still learning sharpening settings for the Pentax.

vievetrick · 12-04-2006, 03:45 PM

you know that is a great question. I have never done it in camera always at the end of any PP useing PSPXI just a simple sharpen feature If I think it needs more they have more sharp I have always been hppy with result

slip · 12-04-2006, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by arbutusq

I do all my sharpening in PS using usm on a layer set to luminosity blend, I use 500,.5,4( the last varies from photo to photo.) this gives my razor sharp appearance with no visible haloes. I will set sharpening in camera to low.

Of course that works with my D70. Still learning sharpening settings for the Pentax.

sharpening in luminosity is great, isn't it?
that is another way of avoiding color shifts when sharpening.

the 500, 5, 4 must depend on the resolution of the photo, doesn't it? (more resolution, the more sharpening a photo can handle)

thanks

Jonas B · 12-04-2006, 04:21 PM

Photoshop all the way. Then you can choose between USM, Smart Sharpen, different scripts, LAB sharpening, and other halo free sharpening methods. Local Contrast Enhancement is also available different ways, of which one USM is very simple to use.
So, I'm with kjask.
I'm not shure I understand what you mean with "referring to jpg not raw"? I think that sharpening should be the last thing you do with a picture regardless of file format (and unfortunately JPG is the worst of them and should be avoided til' the end).

arbutusq · 12-04-2006, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by slipchuck

sharpening in luminosity is great, isn't it?
that is another way of avoiding color shifts when sharpening.

the 500, 5, 4 must depend on the resolution of the photo, doesn't it? (more resolution, the more sharpening a photo can handle)

thanks

Actually the 500,0.5 part gives good results at any size. I just change the opacity of the layer to fit the display resolution. At 100% it looks hideous at any resolution but decrease it to10-40% depending on size and subject matter.

I also have some edge sharpening actions that sharpen without generating or increasing noise.

slip · 12-04-2006, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Jonas B

Photoshop all the way. Then you can choose between USM, Smart Sharpen, different scripts, LAB sharpening, and other halo free sharpening methods. Local Contrast Enhancement is also available different ways, of which one USM is very simple to use.
So, I'm with kjask.
I'm not shure I understand what you mean with "referring to jpg not raw"? I think that sharpening should be the last thing you do with a picture regardless of file format (and unfortunately JPG is the worst of them and should be avoided til' the end).

I guess I made "jpg not raw" sounds a little confusing.
Is sharpening in raw the same method of sharpening that the camera's built in software does to the output .jpg? It seems to me that when I sharpen in photoshop camera raw I can get away with more sharpening the pic then in just plain photoshop.
I agree with you, sharpening is always the last thing I do

cheers

clarenceclose · 12-04-2006, 05:36 PM

I have had good results in CS2, LAB mode, lightness channel only doing USM 70/30/0 and may do it a couple of times if necessary. One thing about doing it mulitple times, I can go into my history and backup if I find the results are too intense. I don't get the halos and because I sharpen only the luminosity channel I don't get any color shift on the edges, nor does it enhance noise as much as other methods. This is always done after color and contrast adjustments as the last thing, then I convert to RGB for printing.

**DAZ** · 12-04-2006, 06:45 PM

Any time the camera modifies the output to do something like sharpen you have two less then desirable out comes. The first is that the camera modifies the information from what the sensor detected. This information is lost forever. So if you save the original file (with out modifying the information) when someone comes out with a better program you can go back and make the photo better. The second is the camera (or any computer program) can only guess at how much to modify the photo and has to error on the safe side to try and avoid adverse artifices in the photo. A human can make these judgments and if you don’t like the outcome go back and modify it till you like it. This is more work then what comes out of the camera but if it is good enough for you then don’t do the work and let the machine do it for you. Ultimately it come down to when is it good enough as you can always say that you can do it better. Only you, the human, can judge when it is good enough.

DAZ

jeffkrol · 12-04-2006, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by slipchuck

I was wondering the opinions on which you like better, in camera sharpening, or sharpening from a program like photoshop?

which is more effective in the outcome of the photos?
referring to jpg not raw

any opinions welcome

randy

Good article on sharpening..........
Sharpening & Workflow
About.com: http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/12189-1.html

davemdsn · 12-04-2006, 09:34 PM

There is an easier way to sharpen Luminosity, which is the same as sharpening the Brightness channel. The shortcut is to do your USM on your image, then without doing anything else first, and I mean nothing, go to Edit>Fade Unsharp Mask - leave the amount to 100% and set blend mode to Luminosity. If you do anything else before going to fade it will not be available. I actually have all this set in an action with the USM window opening for me to set the amounts and the rest happening for me. Works like a charm.

BrendanPK · 12-04-2006, 10:19 PM

Computer is always better!
I leave all my settings at "nutural" in the camera. I use the computer to do everything else like sharpening, contrast etc.
Think of it this way.. You are relying on a really tiny low-powered computer in the camera to do everything your big computerdoes in the same or less time it takes your big computer to do it... What do you think is more careful?
Plus its a fact that photoshop and many other programs jsut can process the image better because it has the memory etc. to do so

12-04-2006, 01:41 PM	#1
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535	In your opinion, which is better... in camera sharpening or photo editor? I was wondering the opinions on which you like better, in camera sharpening, or sharpening from a program like photoshop? which is more effective in the outcome of the photos? referring to jpg not raw any opinions welcome randy

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12-04-2006, 02:02 PM	#2
kjask Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 324	Hi Randy! I prefer sharpening at the end of (eventually) postproduction. I work with Picture Window Pro for this and I found it the best in sharpening - much better than USM in PS!! But I don't know about the in camera sharpening in K10d... I own istDS here is one of my JPG photo, taken with kit lens 18-55, resized and sharpened with PWP. I am very satisfied with the result.

12-04-2006, 02:13 PM	#3
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by kjask Hi Randy! I prefer sharpening at the end of (eventually) postproduction. I work with Picture Window Pro for this and I found it the best in sharpening - much better than USM in PS!! But I don't know about the in camera sharpening in K10d... I own istDS here is one of my JPG photo, taken with kit lens 18-55, resized and sharpened with PWP. I am very satisfied with the result. Thank you for replying, Kjask! That is a great, sharp image! have you tried the smart sharpen filter in CS2? I am not sure if it is as good as the program you are referring to or not. It does let you have more control over sharpening then USM. Does sharpening in Picture window pro shift the colors? is there an option like in cs2 to sharpen in LAB mode so the colors don't shift? sounds like a good program. might have to try it myself thanks

12-04-2006, 02:46 PM	#4
kjask Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 324	You're wellcome, randy! I believe "smart sharpen filter" in PS CS2 is the same as "advanced sharpening" in PWP, but I didn't try it - I didn't need to.. You can download PWP and tryout for one month - it's much cheaper than PS, but it has also excellent tools for editing photos. (you can download it here: Digital Light & Color - Welcome - What's New and here is a great introduction: Picture WIndow Pro introduction ) I don't know about shifting colours - I just make sharpening with two parameters: sharpening amount and radius. it's easy, fast and makes great results. It's free to try! And I recommend everyone to try it...

12-04-2006, 03:36 PM	#5
arbutusq Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Vancouver BC canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 380	I do all my sharpening in PS using usm on a layer set to luminosity blend, I use 500,.5,4( the last varies from photo to photo.) this gives my razor sharp appearance with no visible haloes. I will set sharpening in camera to low. Of course that works with my D70. Still learning sharpening settings for the Pentax.

12-04-2006, 03:45 PM	#6
vievetrick Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Easthampton - Massachusetts - USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,183	you know that is a great question. I have never done it in camera always at the end of any PP useing PSPXI just a simple sharpen feature If I think it needs more they have more sharp I have always been hppy with result

12-04-2006, 03:56 PM	#7
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by arbutusq I do all my sharpening in PS using usm on a layer set to luminosity blend, I use 500,.5,4( the last varies from photo to photo.) this gives my razor sharp appearance with no visible haloes. I will set sharpening in camera to low. Of course that works with my D70. Still learning sharpening settings for the Pentax. sharpening in luminosity is great, isn't it? that is another way of avoiding color shifts when sharpening. the 500, 5, 4 must depend on the resolution of the photo, doesn't it? (more resolution, the more sharpening a photo can handle) thanks

12-04-2006, 04:21 PM	#8
Jonas B Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 810	Photoshop all the way. Then you can choose between USM, Smart Sharpen, different scripts, LAB sharpening, and other halo free sharpening methods. Local Contrast Enhancement is also available different ways, of which one USM is very simple to use. So, I'm with kjask. I'm not shure I understand what you mean with "referring to jpg not raw"? I think that sharpening should be the last thing you do with a picture regardless of file format (and unfortunately JPG is the worst of them and should be avoided til' the end).

12-04-2006, 04:27 PM	#9
arbutusq Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Vancouver BC canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 380	Originally posted by slipchuck sharpening in luminosity is great, isn't it? that is another way of avoiding color shifts when sharpening. the 500, 5, 4 must depend on the resolution of the photo, doesn't it? (more resolution, the more sharpening a photo can handle) thanks Actually the 500,0.5 part gives good results at any size. I just change the opacity of the layer to fit the display resolution. At 100% it looks hideous at any resolution but decrease it to10-40% depending on size and subject matter. I also have some edge sharpening actions that sharpen without generating or increasing noise.

12-04-2006, 05:17 PM	#10
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by Jonas B Photoshop all the way. Then you can choose between USM, Smart Sharpen, different scripts, LAB sharpening, and other halo free sharpening methods. Local Contrast Enhancement is also available different ways, of which one USM is very simple to use. So, I'm with kjask. I'm not shure I understand what you mean with "referring to jpg not raw"? I think that sharpening should be the last thing you do with a picture regardless of file format (and unfortunately JPG is the worst of them and should be avoided til' the end). I guess I made "jpg not raw" sounds a little confusing. Is sharpening in raw the same method of sharpening that the camera's built in software does to the output .jpg? It seems to me that when I sharpen in photoshop camera raw I can get away with more sharpening the pic then in just plain photoshop. I agree with you, sharpening is always the last thing I do cheers

12-04-2006, 05:36 PM	#11
clarenceclose Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pocatello, Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,506	I have had good results in CS2, LAB mode, lightness channel only doing USM 70/30/0 and may do it a couple of times if necessary. One thing about doing it mulitple times, I can go into my history and backup if I find the results are too intense. I don't get the halos and because I sharpen only the luminosity channel I don't get any color shift on the edges, nor does it enhance noise as much as other methods. This is always done after color and contrast adjustments as the last thing, then I convert to RGB for printing.

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12-04-2006, 06:45 PM	#12
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	Any time the camera modifies the output to do something like sharpen you have two less then desirable out comes. The first is that the camera modifies the information from what the sensor detected. This information is lost forever. So if you save the original file (with out modifying the information) when someone comes out with a better program you can go back and make the photo better. The second is the camera (or any computer program) can only guess at how much to modify the photo and has to error on the safe side to try and avoid adverse artifices in the photo. A human can make these judgments and if you don’t like the outcome go back and modify it till you like it. This is more work then what comes out of the camera but if it is good enough for you then don’t do the work and let the machine do it for you. Ultimately it come down to when is it good enough as you can always say that you can do it better. Only you, the human, can judge when it is good enough. DAZ

12-04-2006, 09:29 PM	#13
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by slipchuck I was wondering the opinions on which you like better, in camera sharpening, or sharpening from a program like photoshop? which is more effective in the outcome of the photos? referring to jpg not raw any opinions welcome randy Good article on sharpening.......... Sharpening & Workflow About.com: http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/12189-1.html

12-04-2006, 09:34 PM	#14
davemdsn Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,413	There is an easier way to sharpen Luminosity, which is the same as sharpening the Brightness channel. The shortcut is to do your USM on your image, then without doing anything else first, and I mean nothing, go to Edit>Fade Unsharp Mask - leave the amount to 100% and set blend mode to Luminosity. If you do anything else before going to fade it will not be available. I actually have all this set in an action with the USM window opening for me to set the amounts and the rest happening for me. Works like a charm.

12-04-2006, 10:19 PM	#15
BrendanPK Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 735	Computer is always better! I leave all my settings at "nutural" in the camera. I use the computer to do everything else like sharpening, contrast etc. Think of it this way.. You are relying on a really tiny low-powered computer in the camera to do everything your big computerdoes in the same or less time it takes your big computer to do it... What do you think is more careful? Plus its a fact that photoshop and many other programs jsut can process the image better because it has the memory etc. to do so