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11-20-2010, 10:05 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by bikecoboss Quote
Just note that ACR is a plug-in that runs within Adobe's CS applications, like Bridge and Photoshop (and Elements) - I don't think a stand-alone version exists.
Just found that out...Yikes. I have an really old version of PhotoShop on my home machine and CS4 on my work laptop. I think I'll be switching to my work laptop going forward.

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.
This stuff is so much fun (de-stressing) and frustrating (stressing) at the same time.

7samurai

11-20-2010, 11:53 PM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
SpecialK, when you say extracting, can you explain that? Do I load the raw back into the camera to recreate the jpg?

I understand that I'm getting 2 different outputs because of the difference between in-camera vs. post conversion. What's frustrating is that the JPG is occasionally better. 99.9% of the time, the RAW is all I need. It's that 1 picture in a 1000 that I just can't explain why it's so much better looking in tonality than the RAW. I may need to upgrade from the Pentax software to something more professional.

Thank you for your advice.

7samurai
In the Pentax software (which I understand you have not used ) is a feature called "Extract a jpg". It removes the jpg which is embedded in the PEF file. It is not as large a file or as high-quality as what you get when you do the full conversion, though. You can do a whole card in less than a minute.

I often extract the jpgs of near duplicate shots, and compare them in a more-friendly viewer.

Another feature is saving the data list of exif information, if you like to keep it in a spreadsheet.

I use Elements 6 for the actual conversion.
11-21-2010, 12:14 AM   #18
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SpecialK, thanks you for the explaination on extracting the jpeg. Never knew that feature existed. I heard that PEF files had jpeg embedded, but until just now, never knew how to view or get them out.

Very much appreciated.

7samurai
11-21-2010, 12:41 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
<snip>
I think I'll be switching to my work laptop going forward.
<snip>
Unfortunately laptops often have abysmal screens, at least from the photo editing point of view. I've no idea what you want to do with your images, but it's well worth checking that at least the black and white points are OK - or as OK as you can make them. This will give you a clue.

Photo Friday: Monitor Calibration Tool

11-21-2010, 01:55 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by bikecoboss Quote
Just note that ACR is a plug-in that runs within Adobe's CS applications, like Bridge and Photoshop (and Elements) - I don't think a stand-alone version exists.
Good advice.

Also note that if you run under 64 bit Windows, and run PSE8; then the Adobe instructions on their webpage for the ACR 6.2 update for PSE8 are wrong regarding directory structure.

Adobe - Photoshop Elements : For Windows : Camera Raw 6.2 update

You have to have basic OS computing skills (with W.64) to sort it out.


I don't have full PShop but it appears to have a single-click updater~installer so it might update properly anyway without manual attention.

.R.
11-21-2010, 08:50 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by cats_five Quote
Unfortunately laptops often have abysmal screens, at least from the photo editing point of view. I've no idea what you want to do with your images, but it's well worth checking that at least the black and white points are OK - or as OK as you can make them. This will give you a clue.

Photo Friday: Monitor Calibration Tool
Shouldn't be an issue since I can't stand the image or resolution on the laptop anyway and will be plugging it into my desktop monitor.

7samurai
11-21-2010, 09:28 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
Thank you for your advice. I'll trying tweeking the white balance more. I'm planning to download ACR tonight so I'll see if that makes a difference in the way the white balance is handled.

7samurai
Assuming it is the white balance which is off (and it does sound like the most likely candidate) the shortcut here is probably to take a look at the EXIF data for the white balance setting of the JPEG and then use the same or similar setting when developing the RAW file.
11-22-2010, 06:46 AM   #23
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Your Raw files, whether DNG or PEF, will always look different than your JPEG file coming out of camera. The Raw file does not take into account all your settings, e.g. custom image/colors, extra saturation, contrast etc... so it will always be different, sometimes like night and day.

The in camera JPEG software is pretty good IMHO and yes, I use the JPEG image for this reason for the internet. However, if I am going to print something, I will always use the RAW file and work it till I'm happy. You will always be able to work a Raw file that will be far better than the JPEG, it just takes some practice... FYI - your "older" version of PS Elements should be able to do all of this.

The tonality you're referring to is probably in the "TEMP" setting of the Raw file, if you can toggle this, you'll notice changes in tone and color and you might be able to get it closer to the JPEG file.

Good luck, keep practicing... Rick

11-22-2010, 07:24 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
...
The Pentax digital camera utility is different in that it applies your in-camera settings to the rendering of a RAW file. Essentially, when you shoot RAW+jpeg, the resulting two files from this software should look pretty close. Some people really like that, especially if they like the color rendering of the jpegs produced by the camera.
...
The Pentax software is apparenly Silkypix under the hood so the camera JPEG conversion (1) is likely to be different from the PC one (2) even with same nominal parameters.

(1) mostly implemented in hardware for speed, I presume
(2) where the software algorithms have originally been designed with goals other than matching the results to those with Pentax cameras
11-22-2010, 02:33 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by theunartist Quote
Your Raw files, whether DNG or PEF, will always look different than your JPEG file coming out of camera. The Raw file does not take into account all your settings, e.g. custom image/colors, extra saturation, contrast etc... so it will always be different, sometimes like night and day.
Actually I believe RAW (DNG and PEF) files do contain information about the various settings. Programs that understand them, such I hope Pentax/SilkyPix's Camera Utility does, should create a reasonably similar JPEG as a result directly from the RAW file.

Now, LightRoom3 may not. I don't know how much of that info is stored generically in DNG format. Or how much they try to stay compliant with Pentax specific settings once .PEF file format is supported.

I do know that some of that information is supported. As the DNG image is imported, it is displayed quite differently for a few seconds until it is completely analyzed - at which point LightRoom updates the image. The final "As Shot" image varies with some of the in-camera settings.
11-22-2010, 03:25 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by bikecoboss Quote
That jpeg that looks so good was created from the same RAW file - all the information is there, you just need to practice with a good RAW converter. I've only used Adobe Camera Raw (ACR), but you should be able to out-do almost any in-camera jpeg with any RAW converter.
Not to be disagreeable -
but the "bundled" software that we more or less dismiss out right because it came free with the camera is actually very good -
to the point where I would go as far to say under certain circumstances for really extreme conditions the Pentax DCU (Digital Camera Utility) performs much better than ACR or even LightRoom (which shares a lot of commonalities with ACR).

I think the OP's original take that since it is a Pentax supplied software it "ought" to understand Pentax exposure is right on the money.

Please see this Post #23 where the Pentax DCU managed to resolve a very difficult shot with almost an insultingly simple single click -
whereas no matter how much I struggled with PS Elements or ACR I could not get anywhere near the end result that the Pentax DCU gave.

There are a lot more examples of trials with different software to get a heavily magenta lit scene to "normal" lighting - starting with Post #101 in
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/93809-modern-led-s...roblems-7.html
links to the original shots are in Post #103 - do please try ACR or LightRoom and see if one can get the end results that the Pentax DCU managed with s simple single click?
11-23-2010, 08:36 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
Actually I believe RAW (DNG and PEF) files do contain information about the various settings. Programs that understand them, such I hope Pentax/SilkyPix's Camera Utility does, should create a reasonably similar JPEG as a result directly from the RAW file.
A good example of Raw v. Jpeg, is take a photo using both, set custom to take a "B/W" pic... when you download, the Raw file will be full color at least in my software and I use Corel and PS... I don't think the Raw files take into account any custom settings but rather just the on camera exposure value and WB, so that is the value of the Raw file, you can up/reduce exposure, saturation, color temp, hue, etc., w/o loss of any info...

I don't use the bundled software but I can see if you are using it, it would/should produce an identical JPEG...
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