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11-21-2010, 11:30 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
eneloop 0 to 50 deg C
alkaline -18 to 55 deg C
lithium -40 to 60 deg C
Hmmm, this is a very useful info everyone should know, thanks for gathering data.
+1 to rep.

Now I was ignoring lithium AA's up to now, which is the best brand for lithium AA's, are there any rechargeable ones, anyone?

11-21-2010, 11:58 PM   #17
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aha! good point! that's why I moved to a phone chargeable through usb... computers are everywhere....
11-22-2010, 05:28 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gian Quote
aha! good point! that's why I moved to a phone chargeable through usb... computers are everywhere....
More computers in the world than simple wall sockets? Mountain/molehill.

Jason
11-22-2010, 05:49 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
[do the maths: typical shot count for the K-x:
Non-rechargeable lithium AA about 1,500-2,000 = av 1,750; cost $10/set of 4
rechargeable eneloops 1,000-1,500 = av 1,250; cost $10/set of 4

Initial cost of 2 sets of 4 eneloops (one can get away with one set - but in practice it's better to get two sets of 4) + overhead of good charger for eneloops $30 eg: LaCrosse BC-700 = total of $50.

So the break even point would be about 8 (or 9 if counting the first "free" set supplied with camera) sets or cycles. Beyond that point the eneloops would be virtually "free" to use whereas one continues to pay $10 per set of 4 for the non-rechargeable lithium.

So the maths says if one never shoots more than 14,000-15,750 shots for the life of the dSLR - then non-rechargeable lithium is the way to go - .
FWIW, That figure for non-rechargeable Lithiums is about half what I get from a set of Eveready Ultimate Lithium batts on my K-x. I don't use on-camera flash much, but I took 6,000 shots while traveling and about 3,500 shots into that, changed the batteries once. I am still using the second set of batteries that I put in the camera in June. In August, I put several hundred more shots on that set, which included a good deal of fill flash, and there have been smaller dribs and drabs of exposures added along the way.

The other small issues to consider in considering the price of rechargeables is that for me, one battery seems to go out prematurely, but they can seldom be replaced in singles, so I always seem to have odd numbers of them around. Also, for a camera, I want to be especially sure I've got good sets. That means marking the batteries some how and keeping up with which ones are getting old. On the plus side, if I am using external flashes, having a bunch of charged batteries, all the same, is convenient.

I have become a huge believer in the disposable lithiums for cameras (not external flash), especially if you don't use that camera constantly. I buy them in quantity on the internet, so the price stays down to around $8 per set or less. With lithiums, the autofocus is also very slightly more responsive on the K-x, but on my 645 the difference in responsiveness in the film transport is very noticeable. The money is worth it over the Eneloops, given the trouble involved in recharging, carrying a charger, etc. My only reservation is the environmental concern.


Last edited by GeneV; 11-22-2010 at 06:06 AM.
11-22-2010, 05:53 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
More computers in the world than simple wall sockets? Mountain/molehill.

Jason
Actually, Jason, I get it. I carry a Netbook-type laptop when traveling to view and back up photos, check email, work, etc. etc. If everything charges off USB, the charger for the computer is the only charger and the only plug adapter I have to carry. It is a major convenience factor, not a molehill to me.
11-22-2010, 06:01 AM   #21
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exactly. I carry a netbook with me to backup the sd and check my mail.

I understand environmental issues, but I take in no account the cost of batteries.

It's the only cost left since the film age: now taking pictures is for free, compared to the film age...

If I only were a student now...
11-22-2010, 06:17 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
FWIW, That figure for non-rechargeable Lithiums is about half what I get from a set of Eveready Ultimate Lithium batts on my K-x. I don't use on-camera flash much,
...
You probably do not use the other charge drainer, the back display for extended periods (such as for LV and video) either?
11-22-2010, 06:24 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Actually, Jason, I get it. I carry a Netbook-type laptop when traveling to view and back up photos, check email, work, etc. etc. If everything charges off USB, the charger for the computer is the only charger and the only plug adapter I have to carry. It is a major convenience factor, not a molehill to me.
Me too: I highly apreciate units charging from USB. There are also small and inexpensive AC USB power adapters for traveling (very) light. (Ditto for 12 V car adapters).


Last edited by jolepp; 11-22-2010 at 04:26 PM. Reason: typo fix
11-22-2010, 07:25 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
More computers in the world than simple wall sockets? Mountain/molehill.

Jason
There are still places where computers and wall sockets are rare and/or temperatures kill rechargeables more quickly.

I spent 4 and a half months backpacking the Pacific Crest Trail. And for a 3+ week stretch I didn't spend more than 2-3 hours in town getting more food and going to the post office. I'm headed to Nepal in March 2012 where I hope to go into some of the more remote areas that don't have power readily available (or at least not that you can depend on). I do plan on using rechargeables as much as possible but there are situations where it will be impossible.
11-22-2010, 02:12 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Actually, Jason, I get it. I carry a Netbook-type laptop when traveling to view and back up photos, check email, work, etc. etc. If everything charges off USB, the charger for the computer is the only charger and the only plug adapter I have to carry. It is a major convenience factor, not a molehill to me.
Gene,

If you re-read the OP, you'd understand I was replying and addressing the original question and his follow up. If you have a situation where an adapter for a rechargeable camera battery is unable to share or alternate with the same socket you charge/use your computer on, them maybe you have a point. Otherwise, the molehill is a mountain of your own making? Certainly that tiny battery charger (smaller than the size of 4AA's) used for the K-7/5 wont cause you any overages on your baggage weight.

Jason
11-22-2010, 02:22 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by abacus07 Quote
There are still places where computers and wall sockets are rare and/or temperatures kill rechargeables more quickly.

I spent 4 and a half months backpacking the Pacific Crest Trail. And for a 3+ week stretch I didn't spend more than 2-3 hours in town getting more food and going to the post office. I'm headed to Nepal in March 2012 where I hope to go into some of the more remote areas that don't have power readily available (or at least not that you can depend on). I do plan on using rechargeables as much as possible but there are situations where it will be impossible.
Excellent. It is good you bough the right camera for your needs then as the K-x only takes AA's.

Jason
11-22-2010, 06:44 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
Gene,

If you re-read the OP, you'd understand I was replying and addressing the original question and his follow up. If you have a situation where an adapter for a rechargeable camera battery is unable to share or alternate with the same socket you charge/use your computer on, them maybe you have a point. Otherwise, the molehill is a mountain of your own making? Certainly that tiny battery charger (smaller than the size of 4AA's) used for the K-7/5 wont cause you any overages on your baggage weight.

Jason
Your mileage may vary. You may call it a mole hill, but I find it very annoying to carry multiple chargers and plug adapters and to be sure that all of them work at all voltages. I once took out the fuse for an entire floor of an older hotel in Germany with the charger for my GPS that said it worked at 220/50. It also took out the GPS. This last trip, my only charger was the computer. Every thing worked off he USB ports. It is not a question of baggage weight. It is just easier.
11-22-2010, 06:45 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by jolepp Quote
You probably do not use the other charge drainer, the back display for extended periods (such as for LV and video) either?
I'm not a big user of LV, but I have taken a few videos.
11-23-2010, 10:42 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gian Quote
Does the camera give you time to charge the batteries, or when it warns you, the batteries are dead the moment after?
If I keep a second set ready, will it keep full charge for weeks?
Sorry to be a bit late on this.

My experience with the K-x battery indicator has shown:

full Green lasts for about 1/3 (33%) usage (~400 shots)-
half Orange first shows when there is still about 2/3 (66%) capacity left (~800 shots left or lasts for ~600 shots) -
empty Red shows when there is about 1/6 (16.7%) capacity left (~200 shots).

(I am on firmware version 1.01.00.07; and shot count 20,000+ - so that is from 17 changes of batteries) I average over 1,200 shots per eneloop charge - and I added the approx number of shots on each level to my table above.

Note: I shoot with very little flash and just about everything set to save batteries - so YMMV in terms of total shots -
however in the first part of the table above the ratio or % should hold and one merely needs to calculate from one's typical total shot count/charge to arrive at the approx shots per level.

For me when the Red/empty battery level first shows at a steady state - I know I still have about 200 shots to go - so I have often gone to a gig/shoot with batteries that are showing Red/empty - of course carrying my spare charged set and back-up set of lithium AAs.
(note orange or red may show fairly early on - but once the K-x is "rested" the indicator may revert back to the higher state - so the lower level has not yet reached a "steady state" as I call it, is when the level shows even after being rested)

eneloops are LSD rechargeable batteries - that is Low Self-Discharge they claim to be able to hold their charge for up to a year - personally I would top-up charge these once every 6 months if not used - but then I cycle through three sets in about 3-4 months and I have not had any problems of self-discharge.

Please read:

Low self-discharge NiMH battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PS - this Sticky thread ought to be useful:

Sticky: Battery for K-x (and other cameras that take AA's)

Last edited by UnknownVT; 11-23-2010 at 11:00 AM.
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