Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-12-2010, 07:20 PM   #16
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 208
If you are using full-auto mode all the time, and full auto is choosing these very long exposure times, then that could explain why all of your pictures appear OOF. But why would the camera be choosing such long exposures? I don't have a k-x, so I don't know what exactly the problem would be.

12-12-2010, 07:23 PM   #17
Veteran Member
wshi's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 455
Hard to say exactly what's going on, so please post some more samples, perhaps some from the 2000 or so "garbage" shots that are bad for no apparent reason? I've taken over 10,000 actuations with my K-x, and I know that only a select few are keepers that I'd want to share, but in this case it'll help you in the long run to learn from past mistakes.

If you're just starting out, a 55mm f/1.4 has extremely narrow depth of field, so typically only a small portion of the image will be in focus at f/1.4, which may account for the images that you consider to be out of focus.

Try selecting your focus point to only the center point, so that you have complete control over where to focus. Once the green hexagon lights up and the SR hand appears, go ahead and take the shot or recompose.
12-12-2010, 07:39 PM   #18
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oklahoma USA
Posts: 1,475
I've never figured out how my k100 or k200 chooses shutter speeds for flash - it doesn't seem to make any sense.

But you should probably take the flash issue out of the picture, and take some tripod-mounted comparison pictures with the same focal length.

Paul
12-12-2010, 08:02 PM   #19
Pentaxian
twitch's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,571
I think the camera picks settings as if there wasn't going to be flash, hence the slow shutter speeds.

I have a K-x too, and I honestly have no idea how to get the camera to choose sensible settings when using flash. I have found the solution though, and that is to never ever let the camera choose settings in flash photography. I only ever, no execptions, use flash while in manual mode. Doesn't matter if it's external flash or pop up. That way I can choose how much ambient light I want, and ride the FEC to give the result I want. I get very good results, but it's a big jump for someone shooting only in auto to make.

I tend to think P&S cameras give better results in auto mode for flash than my K-x does in auto mode. However the results in manual mode on the K-x are fantastic, a P&S can't even come close.

12-12-2010, 08:47 PM   #20
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: us
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 53
Original Poster
i think shutter priority that one, but its a semilighted room ( no day light) and im as shooting from hand so 1/50 is think is the slowest to get a chance of good picture, also iso limited to 200-1600 so camera can only adjust brightnest of picture by aperture, picture is just ok but far from ok, i think piont and shot camrea WITH flash would do much better, dunno maybe ive expected more from DSLR, and back to second picture ( 2 side by side) both FULL AUTO and look at the difference at setting that cameras picked !
12-12-2010, 09:50 PM   #21
Pentaxian
johnmflores's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somerville, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,999
QuoteOriginally posted by fafo13 Quote
i think shutter priority that one, but its a semilighted room ( no day light) and im as shooting from hand so 1/50 is think is the slowest to get a chance of good picture, also iso limited to 200-1600 so camera can only adjust brightnest of picture by aperture, picture is just ok but far from ok, i think piont and shot camrea WITH flash would do much better, dunno maybe ive expected more from DSLR, and back to second picture ( 2 side by side) both FULL AUTO and look at the difference at setting that cameras picked !
If you treat a dSLR like a point and shoot and expect it to be as easy then prepare to be disappointed. A dSLR is much more capable than a point-and-shoot, but it also demands more knowledge from the photographer in order draw out its full potential.

Regarding AF, it's a lot easier with a P&S because of the small sensor; 90% of the time everything is in focus. With a dSLR you can choose what is in focus and what is blurred, but someone coming from a point-and-shoot needs to learn some new skills to get focused photos. It is more than just pressing the shutter button halfway.

Also, in the two photos of your girlfriend, the white wall behind her affected the exposure. With the Canon there is more white wall which caused the camera to adjust the exposure downward (darker) than the Pentax photo. The Pentax photo is a little hot in places, but nothing that a little flash exposure compensation can't fix.

Ultimately, the Canon may be more user friendly to someone using it like a point-and-shoot, but the K-x is certainly capable of producing equally-good images in the right hands.

If this is your first dSLR, you may want to consider taking a course of dSLRs. You seem to have some of the knowledge already, but maybe some instruction of depth of field, using flash, etc... may help.

Good luck!
12-12-2010, 10:47 PM   #22
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: us
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 53
Original Poster
maybe i may have to learn more, just never seen problem of lack of knowledge when i used nikkon d90 with 18-105, or cannon rebel XTi or T1i, and 90% of pictures were acceptable, now with pentax is about 10% of them im little disappointed and im looking for reason beyond that, cause there is not a problem to get different camera but i like k-x and would like to check all possibilities before changing it which is very last thing i wanna do
12-12-2010, 10:55 PM   #23
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ontario
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,285
QuoteOriginally posted by fafo13 Quote
best of bunch i took with k-x with 50mm f1.4,
pic props: f2, shutter 1/50 iso1600
not happy with, no flash but out of focus and best it could do in my hands
The depth of field is quite shallow at f2, and your lens isn't terribly sharp until stopped down a little more (is it the FA50mm or the DA*55mm or other?). Iso1600 isn't going to help matters either, higher iso leads to some loss of detail. 1/50th shutter is on the border for live, breathing targets. All in all, I wouldn't expect much better given the lighting conditions without oodles of practice. Have you used a fast lens like this before?


In your comparison between the two cameras, the k-x is letting in way more ambient than the canon, and enough that the camera/subject movement at 1/10 second will send your sharpness into the gutter. The iso1600 choice won't do it any favours either. This is also contributing to the funky colours, the white balance looks set for the flash, making the ambient light contribute an orange tint to the picture. The canon shot does this as well, but the relatively low contribution of the ambient makes it hardly noticible (look in the shadow to the right of her head).


You might want to try some more favourable conditions, a stable tripod, static objects, low iso, higher f-stop, more light, and put the camera on a timer, just to get an idea of the kind of sharpness you can achieve and what it takes to hit it (and also rule out equipment malfunction). If sharpness is a major concern, then this is a worthy exercise in my opinion.

12-12-2010, 11:37 PM   #24
Junior Member




Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 38
Since you can't see SR like Canon's IS or Nikon's VR in your view finder, you need to make sure SR is engaged, aka wavy hand lights up(takes about 0.5-1sec after you half press shutter). I would suggest you brace your elbow against yourself or somthing when shooting under 1/60 still (1/15 is about as slow as i can go) and as above said, shooting people/pets under 1/60 doesn't work well.

If you have never use a large aperture lens before, beware that the small dof you are working with(few inches or less), where as kit lens f3.5+ you have more than 2x+ the dof. In low light conditions such as your first sample pic, AF isn't the best, and having shallow dof will work against it.(either use smaller aperture or go manual focus)

Oh, set your camera's custom image setting to "fine sharpness" 0 or +1 (original setting is at -1 sharpness i think)

I dont use flash enough to comment on it... and i use manual setting when i do.
12-13-2010, 12:02 AM   #25
Veteran Member
jolepp's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Finland
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,196
Apparently the auto mode makes poor choices for parameters when the internal flash is in use, the remedy for that would be setting them manually (low iso, 1/180 / 1/160, f for desired DOF, effective exposure time is compensated by TTL so adjust ISO/aperture combination to suit based on actual results).

Without flash setting center point focus, half press to lock focus (AF) / focus making use of focus confirmation (MF) - recompose - full (gentle) press to expose and making sure the SR icon has lit before full press as suggested should help. Shutter times <= 1/60s help to get consistent results with focal lenghts ~50mm and smaller; SR improves the odds but faster shutter time (high ISO) is always the better bet.
12-13-2010, 12:12 AM   #26
Inactive Account




Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Michigan, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,485
QuoteOriginally posted by fafo13 Quote
there you go, no if cannon will continue to take better pics or ill like her better on cannon pics i was thinking about going for d60 or get set of lenses for her t1i and use it, but i do love pentax just im only 80% happy with it and i would love to keep it just gotta find out if i cant take a good picture with it or its something it is wrong with it, so
Your first K-x shot is definitely out of focus. By 50 f1.4 I assume you mean the FA50 f1:1.4 and you are relying on auto focus. Even at f2.0, Something should be in focus and the entire (first) photo looks blurry to me. I think in that particular case, the camera just missed (not uncommon for that lens in a dim room in my experience). Someone has already mentioned making sure you are using the AF point you think you are. I've always kept my cameras fixed to using Center point AF. I know the K-x does not give visual confirmation of the point used so I would make sure it is using the center and leave it there (focus and recompose if you want to focus on something else in the frame). If we are talking about a Manual focus lens (A50 f1:1.4) then make sure your viewfinder diopter is set properly. Either way, make sure it's set properly and try manual focus just to see if your results improve. At 1/50 second unless you are having a shake fit, you should be able to get a decent photo. Do make sure that you have SR confirmation (the little hand in the viewfinder) before taking the photo. The shutter won't trip in AF-S unless focus is locked but it Will trip before SR is fully enabled (pg 129).

Take note that (according to one of our moderators) the AF system on our cameras is calibrated for lenses f2.8 or slower. The 50 f1:1.4, as are all lenses, is held wide open at f1.4 until the shutter snaps.

On the second K-x shot, in the side by side, I think you are more over exposed than out of focus. Her hair looks reasonably sharp in that photo as does the door behind her. Since she's leaning against the door, at f5.6 that's more what I would expect out of that lens. I have no idea why the camera would select 1/10 second at ISO 1600 for a flash shot. Try fixing the ISO at 100 or 200 on your camera (page 90 in the manual) or limiting the auto ISO to 200 or so to see if that changes anything. Unless you are 30 feet away, with a flash, there is no good reason to need ISO 1600 with a flash that I can think of. The shutter speed should have gone to the full 1/180 I would think.

This is still all guess work but at least it's based on something we can see.

12-13-2010, 12:31 AM   #27
Pentaxian
johnmflores's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somerville, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,999
QuoteOriginally posted by fafo13 Quote
maybe i may have to learn more, just never seen problem of lack of knowledge when i used nikkon d90 with 18-105, or cannon rebel XTi or T1i, and 90% of pictures were acceptable, now with pentax is about 10% of them im little disappointed and im looking for reason beyond that, cause there is not a problem to get different camera but i like k-x and would like to check all possibilities before changing it which is very last thing i wanna do
The 18-105 Nikon is another variable aperture zoom, starting a F3.5 and going down (slower) from there. Have you shot either the Nikon or the Canon with a lens similar to the Pentax 50 F1.4 that you have?

Everyone here is giving solid advice. I suggest that you put the kit lens back on the Pentax and try to take the same shot with the Pentax and Canon - same mode, same focal length, similar aperture and shutter speed. To remove one of the variables, go outside when the light is nice and shoot without the flash.

The K-x is capable, I think that you just need a little time...
12-13-2010, 01:40 AM   #28
Veteran Member
stanic's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: PB
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 380
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
If you treat a dSLR like a point and shoot and expect it to be as easy then prepare to be disappointed. A dSLR is much more capable than a point-and-shoot, but it also demands more knowledge from the photographer in order draw out its full potential.

Regarding AF, it's a lot easier with a P&S because of the small sensor; 90% of the time everything is in focus. With a dSLR you can choose what is in focus and what is blurred, but someone coming from a point-and-shoot needs to learn some new skills to get focused photos. It is more than just pressing the shutter button halfway.

Also, in the two photos of your girlfriend, the white wall behind her affected the exposure. With the Canon there is more white wall which caused the camera to adjust the exposure downward (darker) than the Pentax photo. The Pentax photo is a little hot in places, but nothing that a little flash exposure compensation can't fix.

Ultimately, the Canon may be more user friendly to someone using it like a point-and-shoot, but the K-x is certainly capable of producing equally-good images in the right hands.

If this is your first dSLR, you may want to consider taking a course of dSLRs. You seem to have some of the knowledge already, but maybe some instruction of depth of field, using flash, etc... may help.

Good luck!
absolutely
12-13-2010, 01:41 AM   #29
Pentaxian
hoanpham's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Strand
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,360
QuoteOriginally posted by fafo13 Quote
LEFT cannon t1i stock lens w/ flash
36mm f4.5 1/60 iso400
RIGHT pentax k-x 50mm f1.4 lens w/flash
50mm f5.6 1/10 iso1600
These settings are totally different:
Canon picture is totally dependent on the flash, almost no ambient light.
Pentax picture is more complicated. It measured to include ambient light in background (available light in the room).

In spite of these settings are different, both are correct settings. It depends on what user wants to have on the picture.

Depend on the mode you are operating on the Kx, example Tv mode, you can exclude/include more or less the ambient light by adjusting the shutter speed. Aperture number has directly relation with the flash power. Iso number moves the whole range up/down.

If you want relation between flash and ambient/available light, try adjust flash compensation to +0.5

Hope this can help.
Best regards.

ps! My guess is 50mm f5.6 1/60 iso1600 will give you a nice balance, or maybe with flash compensation +0.5,
iso800 with other same settings will give darker backgound.

Last edited by hoanpham; 12-13-2010 at 01:55 AM.
12-13-2010, 02:23 AM   #30
Veteran Member
stanic's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: PB
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 380
QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
I have a K-x too, and I honestly have no idea how to get the camera to choose sensible settings when using flash. I have found the solution though, and that is to never ever let the camera choose settings in flash photography. I only ever, no execptions, use flash while in manual mode. Doesn't matter if it's external flash or pop up. That way I can choose how much ambient light I want, and ride the FEC to give the result I want. I get very good results, but it's a big jump for someone shooting only in auto to make.
I shot several thousand shots with K-x, DAL 18-55 and Metz AF48 at work this year, mostly conferencies, workshops, information meetings and such, and I am very happy with this system
I usually shoot in A mode, ISO 800, -0,3 EV flash compensation, and vary the aperture as needed
the camera usually uses the 1/focal lenght shutter, which is okay, lets ambient light in, and with SR on, I get almost none blurred pics - if any, I blame my shaky hands in the first place
I tried the slow shutter sync in A mode, works flawless, but to my liking lets too much of the ambient light in the picture
Very rarely I get the flash overexpose problem, but I discovered this is due to bad contact and the flash then fires off at full power, so I always make sure I have good contact between flash and camera - I would just focus with lens cap on and see if the AF light from the flash works

when I need total control, I use M mode with flash in manual too
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, focus, im, love, photography, picture, pictures
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I hate my lens cap. What works best for you? PICTURES! SelfEmployedDebtFree Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 64 12-29-2010 03:51 AM
Love hate relationship rant YossarianKL Pentax DSLR Discussion 10 09-20-2010 06:04 AM
Streets Love it, and hate it alehel Post Your Photos! 1 03-04-2010 06:31 AM
Love your pictures Bird Lady Welcomes and Introductions 3 03-31-2009 01:51 PM
I love/hate "post your best" threads Ed in GA General Talk 8 12-28-2008 06:36 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:09 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top