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06-18-2011, 08:10 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I made 8x10 and 11x14 prints from images that were noisy on my screen, even when viewed at small size, but there was no noise discernible in prints. Everyone should really take one of these noisy images that their cameras produce and print that in large size to see just how little impact the noise has on a print. Don't take my word for it, just try it out!
it's kinda amazing how an image output would look differently on a monitor and on prints. people should take notice of the dpi or per pixel resolution of printers and the monitor resolution. on smallprints, such as 8x10 or 11x14, the so-called noise are either absent or negligible even at High-ISO 3200 (K-7). although such noise would only become more apparent in much larger or full-crop prints. I would say prints are more forgiving that what is perceived on the monitor. as far as large prints are concerned, the best results that I find goodly decent is at ISO 1600 max done with proper exposure or ETTR.

06-18-2011, 09:17 AM   #62
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k-r no doubt. You may disappointed by k-7 IQ, especially compared to k-r
06-18-2011, 11:43 AM   #63
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It's clear here after 4+ screens that the choice is very personal. My personal story is that I grabbed a K-7 a year ago, feeling it had every feature I'd need or want and it was my ideal camera. I knew that I'd stay below iso2000 and owned neatimage so I could handle noise. At the price (just under $750) it was a no brainer.

Imagine my surprise when I sold it eight months later, and picked up a sub-$400 k-x body!

I've been using SLRs since the mid-70s, and dSLR since 2008. Sure I'd like more of the advanced features form the K-7, but found I used many of them quite rarely. On the other hand, having iso5000 images that match up to the K-7 at iso1600 is something I use with some regularity, not at 5000 but good to know it's there. The k-x' smaller size means I'll carry it more - that's why I chose K-7 over the Sony A700, but the k-x is even better - heck it kept me from going entirely to micro four/thirds, so that's how important size is to me!

So that's yet another personal story to ponder. It's definitely best to hold them before using, so you can decide the best fit for you.

Last edited by jimr-pdx; 06-18-2011 at 11:59 AM.
06-18-2011, 12:10 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimr-pdx Quote
It's clear here after 4+ screens that the choice is very personal. My personal story is that I grabbed a K-7 a year ago, feeling it had every feature I'd need or want and it was my ideal camera. I knew that I'd stay below iso2000 and owned neatimage so I could handle noise. At the price (just under $750) it was a no brainer.

Imagine my surprise when I sold it eight months later, and picked up a sub-$400 k-x body!

I've been using SLRs since the mid-70s, and dSLR since 2008. Sure I'd like more of the advanced features form the K-7, but found I used many of them quite rarely. On the other hand, having iso5000 images that match up to the K-7 at iso1600 is something I use with some regularity, not at 5000 but good to know it's there. The k-x' smaller size means I'll carry it more - that's why I chose K-7 over the Sony A700, but the k-x is even better - heck it kept me from going entirely to micro four/thirds, so that's how important size is to me!

So that's yet another personal story to ponder. It's definitely best to hold them before using, so you can decide the best fit for you.
if size factor is involved, I would consider the APS-C MILCs. I'm just waiting to see what has Samsung instored next month. I'm definitely considering getting one depending on what capabilities or improvement it has made from it's predecessor. I love the size and form factor of the NX10 and NX100 however, they should kept them as such.

06-19-2011, 10:00 AM   #65
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I own two Kx. i love the camera.
06-24-2011, 05:13 AM   #66
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This is getting complicated. I would suggest the OP goes to a shop and handles a Kr and a K7 / K5 (imagining the K5 is a K7). With the knowledge that the Kr will produce less noisy images, he can then decide if the viewfinder, metal build, external controls etc are worth that sacrifice. I chose the K7 over the Kx as I wanted a nice camera to use, it would be slightly harder to pick with the Kr.
06-24-2011, 11:03 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by ihasa Quote
This is getting complicated. I would suggest the OP goes to a shop and handles a Kr and a K7 / K5 (imagining the K5 is a K7). With the knowledge that the Kr will produce less noisy images, he can then decide if the viewfinder, metal build, external controls etc are worth that sacrifice. I chose the K7 over the Kx as I wanted a nice camera to use, it would be slightly harder to pick with the Kr.
the k-x is a crippled k-r. the K-5 is a K-7 on steroids.
06-24-2011, 12:46 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
the k-x is a crippled k-r. the K-5 is a K-7 on steroids.
I own both a K-x and K-r,

In my opinion, the low-light/artificial light focus accuracy and low-light sensitivity of the older K-x
is superior to the newer K-r, both of these features are extremely (the most) important for my specific use.

Very disappointed with the purchase of the K-r, wasn't an upgrade at all in my case,
(illuminated focus points were nice) but I should of jumped strait to a K-5 instead.

Michel

06-24-2011, 01:33 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by mlatour Quote
Very disappointed with the purchase of the K-r, wasn't an upgrade at all in my case,
(illuminated focus points were nice) but I should of jumped strait to a K-5 instead.

Michel
exactly the point. if you want both functionality and improved sensor, you should had bought a K-5. what the K-r merely did was added the things that were missing on the k-x. but still nothing better than the K-7. it should be no secret why the K-5 used the same K-7 body and only updated the sensor, minimize shutter noise,fps and AF speed. other than that, it is practically the same camera.
06-24-2011, 01:46 PM   #70
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I just wanted improved auto-focus, which wasn't the case at all with the K-r...
Faster yes, more accurate hmm not really.

While my K-r is now for sale, the old K-x is back in service and will suffice for a while.

When replacement time comes along I will see what Pentax
has to offer but since I only have a few lenses I'll surely look into at other brands as well,
I am very tempted by a Sony A55 type camera
(large DSLR type body, interchangeable lens, but with an EVF)
maybe Pentax will have something similar / compatible with my lenses by then.

Michel

Last edited by mlatour; 06-24-2011 at 01:52 PM.
06-24-2011, 02:27 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by mlatour Quote
I am very tempted by a Sony A55 type camera
(large DSLR type body, interchangeable lens, but with an EVF)
maybe Pentax will have something similar / compatible with my lenses by then.

Michel
I am sure that you have seen the Sony pellicle cameras in the flesh. To be honest, I am not sure the world is going to embrace the concept of EVF's on a DSLR. It is essentially another electronic screen. I think that one major reason that people want SLR's is for their optics and the participation with those optics. I can almost see why someone might want a mirrorless and viewfinderless camera that accepts interchangeable lenses. But putting your eye right up to an electronic viewfinder kind of ruins the party for me.
06-24-2011, 04:08 PM   #72
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Before my K-x I used for many years a Fuji S9100 'bridge-type' camera with an EVF,
I found it very useful for instantly reviewing pics thru the EVF without loosing my shooting stance.
The only downside I found with that camera was the lens, wanting less telephoto but more wide-angle range.

Consider just how often you move a DSLR away from your face
to look at the rear LCD to confirm the proper exposure of your shots,
(also difficult in bright sunlight), with an internal EVF you never move
your face away, each shot is displayed for a second or so if you want to
(can be disabled) to review your pics.

Of course an EVF may not be what the 'pros' want out of a DSLR but
I think it could be of interest for the 'advanced amateurs'.

Michel

Last edited by mlatour; 06-24-2011 at 04:15 PM.
06-27-2011, 05:11 AM   #73
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I'll be happy if I never have to use an EVF again. My biggest beef with them is that there is simply no way to generate an image on an LCD screen in realtime. It takes too long, and what you see in the viewfinder *must* be what's actually happening at that moment if you are going to catch your shot.

I can also imagine the migraine inducing "jello" quality of trying to pan around with an EVF to your eye. With older P&S I couldn't do this, it was intolerable. On a DSLR? No thanks.
06-27-2011, 07:04 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philoslothical Quote
I'll be happy if I never have to use an EVF again. My biggest beef with them is that there is simply no way to generate an image on an LCD screen in realtime. It takes too long, and what you see in the viewfinder *must* be what's actually happening at that moment if you are going to catch your shot.

I can also imagine the migraine inducing "jello" quality of trying to pan around with an EVF to your eye. With older P&S I couldn't do this, it was intolerable. On a DSLR? No thanks.
well, you just have to find out if EVF is any better on a dslr.
06-27-2011, 10:44 AM   #75
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My point is that better won't cut it. It isn't possible with current technology to have a realtime display like that. There will always be significant lag while the camera processes the image and outputs it to the screen - especially if the camera or scene has a lot of movement. There is zero point in seeing something nice and bright in an EVF if it's already moved or flown away.

There's also the issue of it being just one more unnecessary gadget crammed into the camera to drain your battery faster. And one more electronic system to break down, for that matter.
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