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01-16-2011, 12:16 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by clockwork247 Quote
Ok. the earlier K10d, 100d ect... had CCD sensor... guess who else have CCD sensor? that's right, it's sony 100, 200, 300 series, guess who doesn't have great high ISO performance? you got it, the sony lol, i'm just putting 1 and 1 together and make a bold guess that the earlier pentax also borrowed sony sensor and does not have great high ISO performance.
Actually the K100D, K110D and K100D Super (and perhaps the even earlier *ist D- series)
all had pretty good Higher ISO performance -
mainly because they were mere 6Mp and therefore had much bigger pixel elements/sites.

The K100D series at one time was regarded (along with the Nikon D40) as the class leading 6Mp.


Last edited by UnknownVT; 01-16-2011 at 01:33 PM.
01-16-2011, 01:17 PM   #17
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I have a K20D and K-x. At any ISO up to 1600 I prefer the look of K20 images. I bought the K-x for ISO 3200 and up and better low light focussing. If I could only keep one of these, it would definitely be the K20D for its superior controls and low ISO IQ.
01-16-2011, 01:30 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
Actually the K100D, K110D and K100D Super (and perhaps the even earlier *ist D- series)
all had pretty good Higher ISO performance -
mainly because they were mere 6Mp and therefore had much bigger pixel elements/sites.

The K100D series at one time was regarded (along with the Nikon D40) as the class leading 6Mp.
Actually i mainly refer to the 10MP pentax (10MP or 14MP), sony 1st DSLR was a 10MP so i'm thinking anything less than that isn't their sensor.
01-16-2011, 01:35 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by clockwork247 Quote
Actually i mainly refer to the 10MP pentax (10MP or 14MP), sony 1st DSLR was a 10MP so i'm thinking anything less than that isn't their sensor.
All Pentax DSLR's except for the K20D and K-7 use Sony sourced sensors. K20D and K-7 used a sensor co-developed by Samsung and Pentax.

01-16-2011, 02:31 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
All Pentax DSLR's except for the K20D and K-7 use Sony sourced sensors. K20D and K-7 used a sensor co-developed by Samsung and Pentax.
interesting, that's good to know haha. I'm surprise sony only had DSLR starting at 10MP and sold stuff to other people.
01-16-2011, 03:00 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by clockwork247 Quote
interesting, that's good to know haha. I'm surprise sony only had DSLR starting at 10MP and sold stuff to other people.
Sony's sensor making division and their SLR division are separate divisions. They traditionally have not made SLRs at all, being more of a consumer electronics company, but in 2006, when Konica Minolta decided to shut down their camera division, Sony purchased the mount and (I suppose) thereby gained some of their user base in order to launch their own SLR adventure.
01-16-2011, 03:06 PM   #22
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You can not go wrong with any of the first generation Pentax 6mp DSLR's. I've shot extensively with the *ist DL, K100d, K20 and the Kx.
The *ist DL and the K100d share their sensor with the Nikon D100. All of them produce very good high ISO images for the times.

K100d ISO 1600



*ist DL ISO 1600



And for shooting at ISO 3200 both the *ist DL and the K100d offer similar results.
*ist DL ISO 3200. Click image for larger view



FRANK
01-16-2011, 07:37 PM   #23
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It is interesting. I was looking back at some photos from my K100 the other day and I was pretty impressed with the high iso performance it turned in. This was a snap from my brother's wedding with a kit lens at iso 3200 f4 and 1/10 second. Sure, the kx, kr and k5 will beat it, but it is still pretty good, considering.



01-16-2011, 08:24 PM   #24
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here's a sony A330 @ 3200, it's actually not as good as the pentax k100 from the post above me (ok it's really really bad haha). shot at f1.7 with the prime.
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01-17-2011, 05:47 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is interesting. I was looking back at some photos from my K100 the other day and I was pretty impressed with the high iso performance it turned in. This was a snap from my brother's wedding with a kit lens at iso 3200 f4 and 1/10 second. Sure, the kx, kr and k5 will beat it, but it is still pretty good, considering.
The K20D and K-7 beat it too. My tests showed a 2/3 stop advantage for the K20D vs my K100D Super, both shot in raw with no NR and viewed at the same resolution. My research says the K20D has about a 1/3 stop advantage over the K-7, which should put the K-7 about 1/3 stop ahead of the K100D. Considering the age of the K100D, that is pretty impressive.
01-17-2011, 11:56 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
My tests showed a 2/3 stop advantage for the K20D vs my K100D Super
This is interesting, and kind of runs contrary to most opinions, and reviews I have read.

Take for example Imaging-Resource:
the K100D seems to do better than the K20D at High ISOs by quite a noticeable margin -
K20D


K100D


dpReview has also quantified the noise measurements:
Luminance Noise Gray and Black:
they separated gray and black luminance noise graphs for the K20D, but put both on a single one for the K100D -






Similarly for the Chroma Noise:



Last edited by UnknownVT; 01-17-2011 at 12:07 PM.
01-17-2011, 01:58 PM   #27
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The K100 is nice, but it is only 6 megapixels. If you downsize a K7 or K20 file down to 6 megapixel size, you will have significantly less noise. Per pixel noise is meaningless in this type of discussion, because sensors range from 6 megapixels up to 16 megapixels in the K5. Normally, there is some kind of "print normalization" button you can hit to compare them, but with the K100, it is old enough that you can't compare them in the normal comparison graphs on Dxo Mark.
01-17-2011, 02:04 PM   #28
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I'm not sure how comparable those results are. See the K-7 review at DPR for K20D raw noise performance. It beats the K-7, D300 and 50D, but only in raw. It's noisier in jpeg.

Pentax K-7 Review: 16. Photographic tests (Noise): Digital Photography Review

I don't think my statement is controversial at all. It was pretty well established when the K20D was released that it beat the K100D when viewed at the same resolution. Most people here said one stop, my tests showed 2/3. The K100DS @ 1600 = K20D @ 2500.

Last edited by audiobomber; 01-17-2011 at 03:06 PM.
01-17-2011, 03:27 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
It's noisier in jpeg.
I don't think my statement is controversial at all. It was pretty well established when the K20D was released that it beat the K100D when viewed at the same resolution. Most people here said one stop, my tests showed 2/3. The K100DS @ 1600 = K20D @ 2500.
Ah! I got you..... if one resizes the K20D images converted from RAW to 6Mp it beats the K100D images also processed from RAW
- whereas those test results are merely from the default JPGs out of the respective cameras.

Just out of interest those JPG results were:

Imaging-Resource -
@ISO1600 (lower the figure the better)
K100D = ~1.4
K20D = ~2.9

K100D @ ISO3200 = ~1.9
so in JPG and not resized the K100D does more than a whole stop better over the K20D

dpReview - JPG non-resized
(lower the better)
Gray Luminance ISO1600 -
K100D = ~3.4
K20D = ~4.5
(K100D @ ISO3200 = ~4.3)

Black Luminance ISO1600 -
K100D = ~4.9
K20D= ~4.0
(K20D is better for Black Luminance noise @ISO1600,
but it is not quite half a stop
as the K20D's Black Luminance noise rises quite steeply above ISO1600 -
since K20D @ ISO3200 = ~6.9
and K100D @ ISO3200 = ~6.8
At ISO3200 they are more or less even.

Chroma ISO1600 -
K100D = ~4.3
K20D = ~5.9
(K100D @ ISO3200 = ~5.9)

Again overall the K100D JPGs seem about a stop better than the K20D JPGs (non-resized).

Very interesting how conversion from RAW and resizing the K20D images to 6Mp
manages to totally reverse the results in K20D's favor.

Last edited by UnknownVT; 01-17-2011 at 03:32 PM.
01-18-2011, 05:44 AM   #30
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Thanks for all the good info.....I just bit the bullet and ordered the KX....again.......I am hoping the battery situation will be okay if I can figure out how to upgrade the firmware...!
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