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01-22-2011, 07:09 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by yusuf Quote
Hmm, so are you suggesting, starting K-x (including k-x & k-m), we have Samsung or Sony color ?
No, I'm not. Colours are a combination of sensor, lenses and software. I've seen several comments from Samsung G20X owners complaining about hue, even though it uses the same co-developed Samsung/Pentax sensor as the K20D. Sony sensors have been used in all Pentax cameras except the K20D and K-7, but colours from the old Sony-sensored cameras do not resemble colours from the K-x.

I'm thrilled with the colours from my K20D. They're more neutral than the slightly warm (yellow) colours from the K100D. What I love about both is the deep saturation and especially the lush greens.

My K-x is much cooler, too blue for me. You can push the warm colours in the menu, but reds and yellows start to bloom and lose sharpness. I don't see the lush greens that used to make my Canon shooting friend cry in envy at landscapes from my other Pentax cameras. IMO the K-x does not reproduce Pentax colours. I doubt the K-r does either. I suspect the K-5 may, but I haven't seen enough yet to form an opinion.

PS The K-m used the same sensor as the K10D and K200D.

01-22-2011, 11:00 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by conradj Quote
Brings a kind of delicate, dark warmth to the image that's always captivated me. Makes the colours look more saturated, tho i'm not altogether sure they are.
"delicate, dark warmth.." I like that. I don't know what the difference is, exactly, but I like it.
01-22-2011, 10:20 PM   #18
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Dan,

Since you have both kx & k20d, can you post some pictures of same scene with same lens. Would love to see difference.

Thanks
Yusuf


QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
No, I'm not. Colours are a combination of sensor, lenses and software. I've seen several comments from Samsung G20X owners complaining about hue, even though it uses the same co-developed Samsung/Pentax sensor as the K20D. Sony sensors have been used in all Pentax cameras except the K20D and K-7, but colours from the old Sony-sensored cameras do not resemble colours from the K-x.

I'm thrilled with the colours from my K20D. They're more neutral than the slightly warm (yellow) colours from the K100D. What I love about both is the deep saturation and especially the lush greens.

My K-x is much cooler, too blue for me. You can push the warm colours in the menu, but reds and yellows start to bloom and lose sharpness. I don't see the lush greens that used to make my Canon shooting friend cry in envy at landscapes from my other Pentax cameras. IMO the K-x does not reproduce Pentax colours. I doubt the K-r does either. I suspect the K-5 may, but I haven't seen enough yet to form an opinion.

PS The K-m used the same sensor as the K10D and K200D.
01-22-2011, 11:04 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by yusuf Quote
Dan,

Since you have both kx & k20d, can you post some pictures of same scene with same lens. Would love to see difference.

Thanks
Yusuf
Picasa Web Albums - Dan Bonhomme - K-x K20D

You have a K100D and K-x. Don't you see a difference?

01-23-2011, 12:08 AM   #20
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I have used a Kodak digital, a Canon compact, a Fuji bridge camera, an Olympus E510 and now a K7 and to be honest the only bit different was that images from the Fuji were awful. I can't say I saw a colour difference between them. When I used film cameras the film itself was the dominant factor.

(edit) I should have said that how I view the image does make a difference. I used to have two monitors, the colour on the CRT one was accurate, the LCD one was too blue. And projected at the camera club they would look different again.

Last edited by cats_five; 01-23-2011 at 12:32 AM.
01-23-2011, 12:29 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Don't you see a difference?
Thanks for doing this.
The only difference I see is that the blue channel on the k-x is slightly greater. By the numbers maybe 4%. To me that's not very significant, and it's easy to change if it matters. And it will change with any sort of post treatment to some extent.

The K20D shot was slightly more overexposed, so the mere act of fixing that with say the recovery tool will change the color values some. if that won't do it, then tweaking the white balance will.

It's all pretty flexible with digital. To me the goal is to produce your colors.

M
01-23-2011, 01:34 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
No, I'm not. Colours are a combination of sensor, lenses and software. I've seen several comments from Samsung G20X owners complaining about hue, even though it uses the same co-developed Samsung/Pentax sensor as the K20D. Sony sensors have been used in all Pentax cameras except the K20D and K-7, but colours from the old Sony-sensored cameras do not resemble colours from the K-x.

I'm thrilled with the colours from my K20D. They're more neutral than the slightly warm (yellow) colours from the K100D. What I love about both is the deep saturation and especially the lush greens.

My K-x is much cooler, too blue for me. You can push the warm colours in the menu, but reds and yellows start to bloom and lose sharpness. I don't see the lush greens that used to make my Canon shooting friend cry in envy at landscapes from my other Pentax cameras. IMO the K-x does not reproduce Pentax colours. I doubt the K-r does either. I suspect the K-5 may, but I haven't seen enough yet to form an opinion.

PS The K-m used the same sensor as the K10D and K200D.

IIRC, the K-x uses the same sensor as the K-m. Correct me if I am wrong
01-23-2011, 05:15 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
"delicate, dark warmth.." I like that. I don't know what the difference is, exactly, but I like it.
me neither.

This is with the FA 28-105mm IF, the Tamron rebadge with SMC, non Pentax optical design but Pentax coatings.


(my sample of this lens is junky. Wide open it's blurry, and the blurriness is slanted downwards to the right so the left edge of a thing is less fuzzy than the lower right edge. Bleh. This was shot at f11.)


Last edited by conradj; 01-23-2011 at 05:32 AM.
01-23-2011, 09:18 AM   #24
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Despite all the control and options with processing software, how a camera or lens preforms is still very important, because it's still best to get it as close as possible at time of capture. Any time you change one of the color channels, it doesn't just change that color, but the various hues of all colors.
01-23-2011, 12:11 PM   #25
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Canon has a certain problem with skin tones, especially with shadows of the skin tones. Skintones on Canon appear mostly to warm and at the shadow transitions they tend to look artificial and like plastic. This happens in the studio and outdoors, regardless of artificial or natural light sources.

Nikon has a problem with the rendition of the green color, the greens are rendered mostly too cold. Images with dominant green (scenes with leaves of trees or grass) get a tendency to be darker as perceived with the naked eye. Green areas in shadows are also quite a problem. You have to apply selective color correction in PP to get closer to natural perception. If this is not corrected you can always identify a Nikon capture.

Pentax shines with great skin tones, regardless of light source. There is no "Nikon" problem with the greens there. The "Pentax look" is traditionally as close as it gets to the scene as seen by the naked eye. It is well saturated, rich but not too strong to look artificial. The color toning and gradation is well balanced and gives that special sense of 3-dimensional depth to the picture. Ofcourse a Pentax lens can be a benefit in this regard.

Don't know about the Sony, Olympus, Panasonic though.

cheers,
d

Last edited by dragra; 01-23-2011 at 01:04 PM.
01-23-2011, 01:35 PM   #26
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That is one of the reasons, Dragra, that I switched, after decades of Nikons, to Pentax.
I have a theory about something and would like to get your opinion on it, especially since you also own a Kr.
I think the Kr and Kx produce images that look more like Canon or Nikon than Pentax, and I think this is because these are the models with which Pentax got into the ISO race. Do you think it is possible there is a trade off of color and contrast when designing a camera with high ISO capabilities?
I also detect this to a lessor degree with the K5, but the extra resolution and expanded DR makes up for it.
01-23-2011, 01:55 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ron Kruger Quote
That is one of the reasons, Dragra, that I switched, after decades of Nikons, to Pentax.
I have a theory about something and would like to get your opinion on it, especially since you also own a Kr.
I think the Kr and Kx produce images that look more like Canon or Nikon than Pentax, and I think this is because these are the models with which Pentax got into the ISO race.
I agree that K-x & K-r have a more saturated and "punchy" look out of the box which comes closer to certain Canikon cameras. I'm not sure if this has any relation to the so called ISO-race. About the ISO performance I can only say that it appears Pentax got the grips (from the K-x onwards) on this and it appears is becoming market leader in this discipline.

I think Pentax takes a slight departure from it's "Pentax-look" when it comes to color tuning their entry-level or mid-range cameras. This is because these models are sold to a vast number of first time dSLR users which are used to the punchy oversaturated and oversharpened looks of point & shoot digital cameras. This is to prevent the shock from those users.

Pentax top-tier cameras have more conservative color tuned output. If you are using different Pentax bodies it is possible to match the look, I have done it with K-x and also with K-r (to match them with K-20). The problem with K-x was not the color toning but the NR-control, which is very limited and has very basic flexibility. K-r is much better here.

QuoteQuote:
Do you think it is possible there is a trade off of color and contrast when designing a camera with high ISO capabilities?
I also detect this to a lessor degree with the K5, but the extra resolution and expanded DR makes up for it.
I don't have a K-5, but with the K-x and K-r I don't see a tradeoff in color contrast. Actually this is the field where the Pentax high ISO performance excels among it's peers: the color contrast (or maybe better said: color gradation) continues to be very good also in higher ISO regions (between ISO 1600 and 3200). The color fidelity of these new cameras in shadow areas is most impressive for me. Definitely worth the upgrade.

cheers,
d

Last edited by dragra; 01-23-2011 at 02:02 PM.
01-23-2011, 02:36 PM   #28
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i remember playing with my friend's k100ds back in january, and it was the first time i tried my hands on an dslr. And i was complete amazed by the colour and the 'feel' of the picture. That was the reason that i went with a pentax.

I also tried my hand on a canon 450d as well. Was actually quite shock that most of the picture i took in auto mode at sunset was really grey and grainy. Ofcourse it could be just me not know much about using it. But i was expecting in auto mode, it should at least give me a warmer colour.
01-23-2011, 02:56 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by antzutd Quote
i remember playing with my friend's k100ds back in january, and it was the first time i tried my hands on an dslr. And i was complete amazed by the colour and the 'feel' of the picture. That was the reason that i went with a pentax.

I also tried my hand on a canon 450d as well. Was actually quite shock that most of the picture i took in auto mode at sunset was really grey and grainy. Ofcourse it could be just me not know much about using it. But i was expecting in auto mode, it should at least give me a warmer colour.
While speaking of warm and cold color tones I recall the Pentax unique CTE setting. In auto-mode cameras are trying to get the neutral color toning, which in some situations (like sunset scenes or portrait in a tungsten-light envirnment) can completely kill the mood of a picture.

Pentax did the CTE setting to cope just that, to preserve and control the color cast of a scene. I think this is the first attempt from a manufacturer to use technology which adopt the human vision. Quite different approach from just auto-neutralizing the color (white) balance.
01-24-2011, 01:14 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Picasa Web Albums - Dan Bonhomme - K-x K20D

You have a K100D and K-x. Don't you see a difference?
I haven't tried K100D in long time but to me, k-x color looks more realistic though I agree with you on not-so-green. I checked your comparison pictures and tried to use 'match color' of photoshop to match k-x image with one of k20d and the major adjustment is in Blue channel.

Here is a 'green' k-x shot. Not sure how this green would have looked if taken using K20D/K-7, though it looks quite realistic to me and very similar to k-x image your posted.

k-x + FA35/2


Yusuf

Last edited by yusuf; 01-24-2011 at 05:28 AM.
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