Pentax and Full Frame

oppositz · 02-02-2011, 02:18 PM

I've waited and waited since before the K-5 for some indication that Pentax would introduce a FF camera.

If I knew it was only a year or two out I would buy a K-5 and wait. But nothing is ever said to show us what the future will bring. I don't see where Pentax acknowledging a planned FF would threaten APS-C sales much since they will appeal to different markets as demonstrated by Nikon and Canon. In fact knowing this would reinforce brand loyalty!

I love my K10D and its well thought out design and ease of use. But, time is up. With the new Nikon D800 about to be released I am going to cut my losses and change brands. Once I have the Nikon in my hands all my Pentax stuff will go on eBay.

I WANT A FULL FRAME PENTAX! (or assurance one is coming)

Adam · 02-02-2011, 02:36 PM

I wouldn't have high hopes of one- their marketing strategy is unfortunately bad enough, and there's nothing in the current lens lineup suggesting an upcoming release. I just don't think that Pentax wants to target the FF market right now (nor are they trying to). At least there's the 645D, though- you can have more than just full-frame!

MPrince · 02-02-2011, 02:44 PM

I'm with you. Changing brands is definitely the way to go. If I had any interest in a camera body with a 35mm film-sized sensor that's what I'd do.

sjwaldron · 02-02-2011, 02:48 PM - **1 Like**

I always like talking about full frame Pentax, even though it might not happen.

I too am interested in FF, but my reasons are tied to the glass I have, and added benefits like a physically larger viewfinder for the most part and not anything to do with expected DR/ISO/quality improvements. What is it about FF that you feel you need?

My issue with FF from other companies is that they are beasts. I want FF, but I want PENTAX FF ala. K-7 and K-5 design principles of small, light, strong (WR), and powerful.

Let's look at Pentax's release of newer 35mm DSLR so far:
Template:Pentax DSLR cameras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
K10D (completely new)
K20D (same body, upgraded internals)
K-7 (new body, new internals partly)
K-5 (same body, new internals partly)
...next up? (looking at the wiki, 6 quarters is standard for one of these cameras, so a new one probably won't be seen for a year or more)

Will Pentax's new "pro" camera be another APS-C? It will be pretty difficult for them to top the K-5.

I think their next body will be a completely new one based on how they have released them in the past. I'm still pretty unsure if they will go Full Frame or not (however much I personally am interested in it). In the past I've read articles about how their management won't get into something unless they see the price of components drop to a certain level and the market be large enough, so I don't know if there is enough volume and cost savings.

Pentax also might consider 35mm FF a pointless market between APS-C and MF, so they might not even be considering it. Hopefully not, but some signs point that way.

Last edited by sjwaldron; 02-02-2011 at 02:57 PM.

Kunzite · 02-02-2011, 02:50 PM - **1 Like**

Q: How can one make sure Pentax will launch a "full frame" camera?
A: Buy their current products!

Pentax only needs two things to make this step:
- a reassurance they would have enough customers willing to pay what it's worth for a "FF" (successful high end products would make a strong hint in this direction)
- money to fund R&D
But if you need a FF that badly, by all means, go to a brand that has one. Hoya won't tell about their plans in advance, and thus we don't have a clue.

dlacouture · 02-02-2011, 03:04 PM

With their profits from the last year, who knows?

Anyway, when I really need the razor-fine DoF of FF, I use some good old sensor virtualization (the Brenizer method...), or film (cheaper than a FF body!).

Yeah, Brenizer cannot do everything, but I find it quite good for what it is...
Take that:

Taken with a 50/1.4, 3 pics... For this given image, it gives the same results as a 47/1.3 would on a FF body (I made a small excel sheet to compute the equivalence using the image's dimensions)...

sweetpapa · 02-02-2011, 03:15 PM

@sjwaldron: I totally agree that full frame probably goes against current Pentax philosophies such as keeping to the small and light and good value of Pentax gear.

I think I remember reading somewhere that Pentax would only go full frame if they could make money on it and with so many players such as Nikon, Canon, and Sony in the full frame market, they don't think they can, especially with the rumors of Sony pulling out of the full frame market.

With the excellent low light capabilities of the K-5, we're getting full frame quality in a small body. I love that! So for me, I'm not missing full frame at all.

dlacouture · 02-02-2011, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by sweetpapa

@sjwaldron: I totally agree that full frame probably goes against current Pentax philosophies such as keeping to the small and light and good value of Pentax gear.

Well, there is nothing preventing Pentax to make a FF camera with the size of the K20... SR could be a little tricky, but everything else already fit easily in a body this size... We know that a FF Mirror box, shutter and pentaprism fit in there, as all the good old film bodies had them, and a lot were smaller than our DSLRs...

**boriscleto** · 02-02-2011, 03:47 PM - **1 Like**

Bye. Have fun being a Canikon drone.

RonHendriks1966 · 02-02-2011, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by oppositz

I love my K10D and its well thought out design and ease of use.

Well maybe you are the problem yourself (not personal, but there are plenty like you). You are going to spend a small fortune on Nikon gear and are running around with your old K10D. How do you expect Pentax te live out of such a great customer?

**Ex Finn.** · 02-02-2011, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by sjwaldron

too am interested in FF, but my reasons are tied to the glass I have, and added benefits like a physically larger viewfinder for the most part

+1. I might be able to scrape up the funds for FF, if it ever appeared. No chance for the 645D how ever.

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-02-2011, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by oppositz

I've waited and waited since before the K-5 for some indication that Pentax would introduce a FF camera.

If I knew it was only a year or two out I would buy a K-5 and wait. But nothing is ever said to show us what the future will bring. I don't see where Pentax acknowledging a planned FF would threaten APS-C sales much since they will appeal to different markets as demonstrated by Nikon and Canon. In fact knowing this would reinforce brand loyalty!

I love my K10D and its well thought out design and ease of use. But, time is up. With the new Nikon D800 about to be released I am going to cut my losses and change brands. Once I have the Nikon in my hands all my Pentax stuff will go on eBay.

I WANT A FULL FRAME PENTAX! (or assurance one is coming)

I don;t understand

Pentax has steadfastly stated they are comitted to the ASP-C sensor.

What indication have you been given , other than people wanting to believe that pentax will do it (even though sony has stopped supplying FF chips to nikon)?

I have no such dillusions.

JeffJS · 02-02-2011, 06:08 PM

Lowell, What is that car in your Avatar? If figure that's more useful and fun than another thread of somebody saying FF Pentax or else

!!

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-02-2011, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by JeffJS

Lowell, What is that car in your Avatar? If figure that's more useful and fun than another thread of somebody saying FF Pentax or else

!!

That car is a 1966 ford fairlane 500 convertible. It was the 956th 1966 ford off the production line. Built in St Louis if I remember correctly I bought it from my cub scout den mother in the late 1970's

I sold it about 6 years later but it is still on the road today

I replaced the stock 289 with a 351 4bbl

Yeah it was a lot of fun

pop4 · 02-02-2011, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by oppositz

I've waited and waited since before the K-5 for some indication that Pentax would introduce a FF camera.

I WANT A FULL FRAME PENTAX! (or assurance one is coming)

I've been shooting Pentax since the K10D, and throughout that time, the message from Pentax has consistently been that they are committed to APS-C.

If you NEED full frame, then your options are limited to Canon or Nikon. If you want a Pentax full frame camera, then you'll probably have to sit down and wait; and I'd be finding somewhere comfy to sit too, because you might be waiting a loooong time.

02-02-2011, 02:18 PM	#1
oppositz Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Camillus, NY Posts: 39	Pentax and Full Frame I've waited and waited since before the K-5 for some indication that Pentax would introduce a FF camera. If I knew it was only a year or two out I would buy a K-5 and wait. But nothing is ever said to show us what the future will bring. I don't see where Pentax acknowledging a planned FF would threaten APS-C sales much since they will appeal to different markets as demonstrated by Nikon and Canon. In fact knowing this would reinforce brand loyalty! I love my K10D and its well thought out design and ease of use. But, time is up. With the new Nikon D800 about to be released I am going to cut my losses and change brands. Once I have the Nikon in my hands all my Pentax stuff will go on eBay. I WANT A FULL FRAME PENTAX! (or assurance one is coming)

02-02-2011, 02:36 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,593	I wouldn't have high hopes of one- their marketing strategy is unfortunately bad enough, and there's nothing in the current lens lineup suggesting an upcoming release. I just don't think that Pentax wants to target the FF market right now (nor are they trying to). At least there's the 645D, though- you can have more than just full-frame! Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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02-02-2011, 02:44 PM	#3
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	I'm with you. Changing brands is definitely the way to go. If I had any interest in a camera body with a 35mm film-sized sensor that's what I'd do.

02-02-2011, 02:48 PM - 1 Like	#4
sjwaldron Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,235	I always like talking about full frame Pentax, even though it might not happen. I too am interested in FF, but my reasons are tied to the glass I have, and added benefits like a physically larger viewfinder for the most part and not anything to do with expected DR/ISO/quality improvements. What is it about FF that you feel you need? My issue with FF from other companies is that they are beasts. I want FF, but I want PENTAX FF ala. K-7 and K-5 design principles of small, light, strong (WR), and powerful. Let's look at Pentax's release of newer 35mm DSLR so far: Template:Pentax DSLR cameras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia K10D (completely new) K20D (same body, upgraded internals) K-7 (new body, new internals partly) K-5 (same body, new internals partly) ...next up? (looking at the wiki, 6 quarters is standard for one of these cameras, so a new one probably won't be seen for a year or more) Will Pentax's new "pro" camera be another APS-C? It will be pretty difficult for them to top the K-5. I think their next body will be a completely new one based on how they have released them in the past. I'm still pretty unsure if they will go Full Frame or not (however much I personally am interested in it). In the past I've read articles about how their management won't get into something unless they see the price of components drop to a certain level and the market be large enough, so I don't know if there is enough volume and cost savings. Pentax also might consider 35mm FF a pointless market between APS-C and MF, so they might not even be considering it. Hopefully not, but some signs point that way. Last edited by sjwaldron; 02-02-2011 at 02:57 PM.

02-02-2011, 02:50 PM - 1 Like	#5
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Q: How can one make sure Pentax will launch a "full frame" camera? A: Buy their current products! Pentax only needs two things to make this step: - a reassurance they would have enough customers willing to pay what it's worth for a "FF" (successful high end products would make a strong hint in this direction) - money to fund R&D But if you need a FF that badly, by all means, go to a brand that has one. Hoya won't tell about their plans in advance, and thus we don't have a clue.

02-02-2011, 03:04 PM	#6
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	With their profits from the last year, who knows? Anyway, when I really need the razor-fine DoF of FF, I use some good old sensor virtualization (the Brenizer method...), or film (cheaper than a FF body!). Yeah, Brenizer cannot do everything, but I find it quite good for what it is... Take that: Taken with a 50/1.4, 3 pics... For this given image, it gives the same results as a 47/1.3 would on a FF body (I made a small excel sheet to compute the equivalence using the image's dimensions)...

02-02-2011, 03:15 PM	#7
sweetpapa Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 64	@sjwaldron: I totally agree that full frame probably goes against current Pentax philosophies such as keeping to the small and light and good value of Pentax gear. I think I remember reading somewhere that Pentax would only go full frame if they could make money on it and with so many players such as Nikon, Canon, and Sony in the full frame market, they don't think they can, especially with the rumors of Sony pulling out of the full frame market. With the excellent low light capabilities of the K-5, we're getting full frame quality in a small body. I love that! So for me, I'm not missing full frame at all.

02-02-2011, 03:28 PM	#8
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	Originally posted by sweetpapa @sjwaldron: I totally agree that full frame probably goes against current Pentax philosophies such as keeping to the small and light and good value of Pentax gear. Well, there is nothing preventing Pentax to make a FF camera with the size of the K20... SR could be a little tricky, but everything else already fit easily in a body this size... We know that a FF Mirror box, shutter and pentaprism fit in there, as all the good old film bodies had them, and a lot were smaller than our DSLRs...

02-02-2011, 03:47 PM - 1 Like	#9
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,473	Bye. Have fun being a Canikon drone.

02-02-2011, 03:59 PM	#10
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by oppositz I love my K10D and its well thought out design and ease of use. Well maybe you are the problem yourself (not personal, but there are plenty like you). You are going to spend a small fortune on Nikon gear and are running around with your old K10D. How do you expect Pentax te live out of such a great customer?

02-02-2011, 05:50 PM	#11
Ex Finn. Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Maryland. Espoo. Kouvola. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,975	Originally posted by sjwaldron too am interested in FF, but my reasons are tied to the glass I have, and added benefits like a physically larger viewfinder for the most part +1. I might be able to scrape up the funds for FF, if it ever appeared. No chance for the 645D how ever.

02-02-2011, 05:54 PM	#12
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Originally posted by oppositz I've waited and waited since before the K-5 for some indication that Pentax would introduce a FF camera. If I knew it was only a year or two out I would buy a K-5 and wait. But nothing is ever said to show us what the future will bring. I don't see where Pentax acknowledging a planned FF would threaten APS-C sales much since they will appeal to different markets as demonstrated by Nikon and Canon. In fact knowing this would reinforce brand loyalty! I love my K10D and its well thought out design and ease of use. But, time is up. With the new Nikon D800 about to be released I am going to cut my losses and change brands. Once I have the Nikon in my hands all my Pentax stuff will go on eBay. I WANT A FULL FRAME PENTAX! (or assurance one is coming) I don;t understand Pentax has steadfastly stated they are comitted to the ASP-C sensor. What indication have you been given , other than people wanting to believe that pentax will do it (even though sony has stopped supplying FF chips to nikon)? I have no such dillusions.

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02-02-2011, 06:08 PM	#13
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Lowell, What is that car in your Avatar? If figure that's more useful and fun than another thread of somebody saying FF Pentax or else !!

02-02-2011, 06:33 PM	#14
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Originally posted by JeffJS Lowell, What is that car in your Avatar? If figure that's more useful and fun than another thread of somebody saying FF Pentax or else !! That car is a 1966 ford fairlane 500 convertible. It was the 956th 1966 ford off the production line. Built in St Louis if I remember correctly I bought it from my cub scout den mother in the late 1970's I sold it about 6 years later but it is still on the road today I replaced the stock 289 with a 351 4bbl Yeah it was a lot of fun

02-02-2011, 06:59 PM	#15
pop4 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: YMML Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,879	Originally posted by oppositz I've waited and waited since before the K-5 for some indication that Pentax would introduce a FF camera. I WANT A FULL FRAME PENTAX! (or assurance one is coming) I've been shooting Pentax since the K10D, and throughout that time, the message from Pentax has consistently been that they are committed to APS-C. If you NEED full frame, then your options are limited to Canon or Nikon. If you want a Pentax full frame camera, then you'll probably have to sit down and wait; and I'd be finding somewhere comfy to sit too, because you might be waiting a loooong time.