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02-16-2011, 05:30 PM   #46
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Hi there,

I have the K5 and I seem to have the same freakin problem.
First I thought it was the crappy 16gb card I bought with the camera, but the error also occurs with my sandisk ultra II 8gb.
I also have a card reader but it always worked fine with my K100d files.

Then I found some curious singularities on this issue. If I copy again a "damaged" PEF from the card (either card reader or camera cable) the file will most likely be fine. I say most likely because I had a couple of stubborn PEF where the error presists at a 2nd copy.

The error occurs both in XP and W7. I recently upgraded to W7 but before that I already had this issue.

I've tried diferent softwares (silkypix, bibble 5, Capture One 6) and they show diferent damage PEFs and in diferent amounts. Bibble 5 seems to be the best to handle the files. It shows less damaged RAWs and doesn't show those weird lines.

Today I've also tried a set of PEF on another PC with lightroom. When importing, it generated a lot of those damaged previews, like this:



so I remade transfer (exactly the same way, via card reader) and on that 2nd folder the previews were weird but when I went to the develop module and clicked on a single image, it would display fine! The thumbnail was still rubish but as soon as I made any small edit it would update and made all of them fine.

Then, on the same computer, I tried Bibble and it would show a few images with error (showed only the thumbnail preview). Then I opened that 2nd folder and all were fine!

This computer it's from work and it's far better than the home laptop.
My laptop is a 6 year old Intel M (dothan) 1,8 ghz, 2GB ram and an ATI mobility radeon 9600 with 128 MB.
My work PC is a 3,4 ghz dual core, 2GB ram, and a Nvidia 8600 512 MB
Both running Windows 7.

I've had some crappy DNGs as well , but in a diferent way, colors get weird and/or highlights get a strange color cast.
When recording RAW+jpeg (both PEF and DNG) all jpegs are fine.

I haven't tested much with DNGs but today I shot a few and they were perfect. On the sandisk card only one didn't work on bibble but I re-copy it and it was fine.

Any ideas? My photos don't get damaged after some editing like Pete's and I need to make a 2nd transfer to get the files right.

I'll try more DNGs and more photos on the sandisk...
should I start thinking on returning the camera? I'm in Portugal and for repair it would have to go to Spain (if not further) wich will mean quite a great deal of time without the camera

Btw, I have the 1.02 firmware and my K5 serial number starts on 398...

sorry for the long post

SÚrgio

02-16-2011, 05:52 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote
...the problem is the USB ports on the front of the desktop. And the (more than likely) reason is that those ports can’t deliver enough power to the external HD...
I also think that this may be your problem. I have problems with my external hard drive if I try to connect it to anything other than a rear USB port, and that includes using an extension cable.


EDIT: I just had a thought, after reading sergiot's post. Maybe the Windows thumbnail file is somehow being corrupted. Windows automatically creates a hidden file called thumbs.db which is a small database of the image thumbnails. If this is corrupted, it might explain why you're having these problems. As far as I'm aware, it shouldn't affect previews in other programs, just in the Windows Explorer view, but deleting the file doesn't cause any harm and is a quick fix to try

Last edited by Tippon; 02-16-2011 at 06:01 PM.
02-16-2011, 05:54 PM   #48
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I am not familiar with Lightroom. But I know with some processing software you can tell it to either use the embedded jpeg for the thumbnail or use a knocked down version of the RAW file. Do you know what Lightroom uses for the thumbnail?

Jack
02-16-2011, 08:03 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote
What is the difference between the current setup (dropbox) and the previous one (external HD)? That you don't use your external HD anymore.
sorry about that, i meant i put the image back on my external hard drive, not on the computers hard drive :P in the same folder as the corrupted files as well.

QuoteQuote:
The sensible sequence of tests will start at the source (laptop/external HD). I do have a suspicion as to what is going wrong so I will start at the other side. Where do you connect your external HD to the desktop? Front or back? Assuming this is an external HD that gets its power from the USB ports and you connect to the front, you can eliminate the front USB as a source by using the USB at the back.
man, you know what?!i hope that's it. i started connecting the external to the front usb only because i did a little transferring of files between computer and laptop, so it was easier to connect between the two from the front - damn! that has to be one solution though, because i've never had these issues that i think about it when i connected to the back of the computer.

i gatta admit, i love the support for this issue everyone <3 :P

02-16-2011, 08:28 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tippon Quote
I also think that this may be your problem. I have problems with my external hard drive if I try to connect it to anything other than a rear USB port, and that includes using an extension cable.
Mine does not even fire up. Light goes on, light goes off, light goes on, light goes off etc etc etc

QuoteOriginally posted by pete_pf Quote
sorry about that, i meant i put the image back on my external hard drive, not on the computers hard drive :P in the same folder as the corrupted files as well.
You must be accurate So the question in that case is why your dropbox files dropped on your external HD are OK and your files direct from the laptop ain't. Unless you're now using the port in the back.
02-16-2011, 08:38 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote
Unless you're now using the port in the back.
i will now lol and will report back what happens
02-16-2011, 09:37 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by sergiot Quote
Hi there, I have the K5 and I seem to have the same freakin problem.
(many helpful additional details snipped for brevity)
pete_pf's problem is starting to look less like a hardware problem. I'm thinking some weird software issue due to a combination of as-yet-unknown factors. Swapping hardware might reduce the problem by luck. Sort of like if a program worked when using USB port #1 but crashed with USB port #2 - such a problem could be due to a bad port but it could also be due to misbehaving software that failed whenever the port # was even.

sergiot's Lightroom screen image shows that the weird colors are far more likely to happen at the bottom of the photo than at the top. This matches the trend in the 3 samples that pete_pf originally provided. It's possible that sergio's and pete's problems have totally different causes and merely look similar, but I think it's more likely that there's a common cause.

sergiot uses a K-5 and pete_pf a K-x. pete_pf said his K100D never had the problem. Maybe the newer cameras can create files that are slightly out of spec in some rare circumstances? I say rare because even though they have the problem often the rest of us have never experienced it. Or maybe photo software that supports the K-5 and K-r has compatibility issues with certain camera setting or other circumstances?

The bad photos almost always have too much magenta and white. Or, put another way, there's an absence of other colors in the bad areas. The problem always seems to occur in horizontal stripes, as if some color channels are being deactivated and activated randomly on different lines. None of the bad photos show too much black. Maybe these patterns can help us figure out what's going on.

Sergio and Pete, what in-camera settings are you using? Might you both have some some rarely-used option turned on that's triggering this? Maybe the rest of us haven't experienced the problem because we don't have the same settings. This is just a wild guess but try resetting your camera to default settings and take a bunch of photos to see if the problem goes away or changes in any way.

(We may never find the root cause of the problem, but as long as we can make it stop happening I'll be happy. I bet Pete and Sergio will be even happier.)
02-16-2011, 09:43 PM   #53
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No replies needed on this, just mentioning how lack of sleep leads to stupidity. I looked at sergiot's Lightroom screen image again. I wondered how the rest of his thumbnails looked. So I clicked the Lightroom scroll bar and tried dragging. The scroll bar in a bitmap ... DOH!

02-17-2011, 12:34 AM   #54
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One thing to keep in mind with these is that the as the images are compressed, even one bit getting flipped may affect a large area, potentilly the whole picture; compression tries to find a smaller sized representation of the data and in so doing ends up making references in the data itself like "this area is almost like another one at <offset>, the difference to that is <so and so>".
02-17-2011, 03:15 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Sergio and Pete, what in-camera settings are you using? Might you both have some some rarely-used option turned on that's triggering this? Maybe the rest of us haven't experienced the problem because we don't have the same settings. This is just a wild guess but try resetting your camera to default settings and take a bunch of photos to see if the problem goes away or changes in any way.

(We may never find the root cause of the problem, but as long as we can make it stop happening I'll be happy. I bet Pete and Sergio will be even happier.)
Hi DeadJohn,

That's a good idea, reseting to default. I also thought about re-installing the firmware (I did it as soon I got the camera). I'll try to run some more tests today and report back.

Thank you and everyone else for the help.

SÚrgio
02-17-2011, 03:55 AM   #56
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Sorry I'm a late-comer to this. All the discussion seems to be to do with PEF / DNG. If you shot some JPGs are they OK?
02-17-2011, 04:26 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by cats_five Quote
Sorry I'm a late-comer to this. All the discussion seems to be to do with PEF / DNG. If you shot some JPGs are they OK?
That's right. No problems whatsoever with jpegs, either RAW (PEF)+, RAW (DNG)+ or standalone Jpegs... they all came out perfectly fine.
02-17-2011, 06:13 AM   #58
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If JPGs are OK I'd suggest it's not a card problem or a transfer problem, but a problem with either the software writing or reading the RAW.

And it looks to me like several different bits of software have problems reading the RAW, so to this bear of little brain that looks like a problem with the camera to me.

Reset the camera to default sounds good to me, so does reinstall the firmware, but if it was my camera and in warantee that's where I'd be heading.
02-17-2011, 07:59 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by cats_five Quote
Sorry I'm a late-comer to this. All the discussion seems to be to do with PEF / DNG. If you shot some JPGs are they OK?
Who did you address in this question? pete_pf or sergiot? That's the problem with hijacking a thread.
02-17-2011, 04:36 PM   #60
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Well I will make some further testing but right now it seems more a simple card failure. I tried more shots with my sandisk card and got only 1 in 40 shots was damaged. Tonight I got hold of another sandisk card and every shot was good. I'm shooting DNGs now.

I really hope it's only a card issue. I should know better than to have bought that cheap card... wishfull thinking, I guess.

I'll try to shoot a bit on the weekend and I'll let you know how it went.
Thanks again for you patience and support.

SÚrgio
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