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02-16-2011, 05:11 AM   #1
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K-x designed shutter action, is mine faulty?

I seek some confirmation on the proper behaviour for a K-x camera, specifically when its shutter button is pressed. eg. even when the rotary dial is put on Manual mode, when I press the button fully down, and the scene is lowish-lit, the camera just keeps going bezerk and hunting on its AF, then maybe finally will activate the shutter, sometimes. It doesn't make sense that Manual isn't Manual.

Only when the body is physically switched to MF, instead of AF position, will it permit unimpeded shutter (click) opening while in any combo of settings that I believe should allow over-ride. eg. Turning OFF anti-shake also makes zero difference.

The history: I've owned this thing about 9-10 months, everything else seems OK, yet I suspected that behaviour could be either stupid design, or faulty from new. However, lacking experience with modern DSLRs I just took it for granted that the behaviour was working "as designed".
Even though it really pissed me off the way it works, and never allowed the over-ride that I'd prefer, I sort of accepted it. Another bullshit bye-product of modern gadget automation that I needed to adjust to.

Then after buying a K-r before xmas 2010, it completely upset that theory. The K-r just doesn't baulk like that at all. eg. When dialled into M mode, and body on AF, SR On, etc., pressing its shutter button results in an instant shutter release click, any time, every time! Yes I know the K-r has focus assist light, but... I can even cover that up. Nope, this K-x mystery problem ? seems even beyond that.

So what I'm requesting here is first to confirm from knowledgeable K-x owners if mine's actually broke, so that I can then proceed to claim a warranty repair on basis that it's a valid fault.

Any K-x'ers want to confirm what I should expect to happen through the modes/settings?

.R.


Last edited by Hypocorism; 02-16-2011 at 05:23 AM.
02-16-2011, 05:47 AM - 1 Like   #2
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In AF mode, your K-x will only allow you to take an image once it has obtained focus. All my cameras behave like this.

The fact that you're in manual mode does not have anything to do with it as that refers to manual exposure settings and nothing else.

You can wait for some K-x owners to confirm low light autofocus performance as I don't own a K-x.

Last edited by sterretje; 02-16-2011 at 06:31 AM.
02-16-2011, 06:54 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote
In AF mode, your K-x will only allow you to take an image once it has obtained focus.
Thanks for that, it seems to coincide with what it insists on doing. Like you say, unconditionally too.

And from that I can only conclude that K-x AF is as effective as a candle in a tornado, and K-r AF is a mind blower advance in comparison. Not only much faster to snap-on a target either, without silly hunting using the exact same lens, but actually works when expected and called upon to in equivalent dimmer conditions. (sans AF assist included)

QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote

The fact that you're in manual mode does not have anything to do with it as that refers to manual exposure settings and nothing else.

You can wait for some K-x owners to confirm low light autofocus performance as I don't own a K-x, but all my cameras behave like this.
Then why does the K-r allow instant uninhibited click in M mode, anytime, everytime, any situation -- like say; even with the lens cap on, or pointed to a dim~dark spot and with my hand over the AF-assist LED for example?

Will see what other explanations come forth. I admit I have limited experience and no sound knowledge of this but it definitely makes no sense to me, yet.

And unless I'm missing something, having both model cameras for direct apples to apples comparisons seems to leave little room for ambiguity too.

.R.

Last edited by Hypocorism; 02-16-2011 at 06:59 AM.
02-16-2011, 06:57 AM - 1 Like   #4
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There should be a menu setting that will change the shutter release to occur whether or not focus is achieved (can't remember what exactly it is called). It is defaulted to require focus, so needs to be changed from the default in order to release without focus confirmation.

02-16-2011, 07:20 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by pxpaulx Quote
There should be a menu setting that will change the shutter release to occur whether or not focus is achieved (can't remember what exactly it is called). It is defaulted to require focus, so needs to be changed from the default in order to release without focus confirmation.
Excellent, that would be a miracle fix, but what and where?

Crazy, in ~9 months I've yet to find such in the model's Manual, nor reference or even talk about such a setting in forums such as this.

You are right that it could be a default, because I've fully Reset the camera in hope to solve it.

Is it some indirectly described or named thing, that might only be obvious to geeks?
And what other setting[s] could it be dependant on, if anything?

.R.
02-16-2011, 07:48 AM   #6
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The K-r has that menu setting (see page 125). The K-x does not have that setting; at least I could not find it in the manual.
02-16-2011, 07:49 AM   #7
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I guess I was wrong (thought this was a menu option but doesn't appear to be). reading through the manual, sounds as though you'll need to switch to MF in order to take a photo if focus can't be found.
02-16-2011, 07:51 AM   #8
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Rotary dial in Manual mean you decide ISO, Speed and aperture but camera will do or try to focus(AF is active)
MF Button= you have to focus yourself without help from the camera

02-16-2011, 08:04 AM - 1 Like   #9
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menu - C2 - 10 AF/AEL button - 2 Enable AF2
this will assign AF to the AF/AEL button and the shutter button is free to use
02-16-2011, 08:06 AM   #10
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Great. I think this enigma is solved in both cameras. Details below.

sterretje
: Your explanation of how both shutter, and manual mode, each should and will behave by design clarified things so that I was no longer chasing red herrings. Many thanks.

pxpaulx: Your hints on the existence of a menu setting controlling this action encouraged me to dig from other angles and I since discovered that it's possibly narrowed down to one specific, albeit very different in each camera. Thanks for that.

stanic: Excellent direct solution for K-x

Home made lemon meringue pie with fresh passionfruit topping all 'round. (Sorry no booze here.)


The Menu settings to enable Shutter release over AF hunting:

K-r -- it appears to be controlled by: Menu > C(ustom), Tab [2] > 9. AF.S Setting > 2. Release-priority

K-x -- controlled by a different AF.x : Menu > Camera icon, Tab [2] > AF Mode > AF.C

Also see alternative method for K-x described by poster stanic #9 at..
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/133394-k-x-designe...ml#post1388491)
..that doesn't force the default AF.A onto AF.C (above), but prohibits using the AF/AE-L button for a dedicated AE Lock (option 4) button, if that's preferred

NB: As suggested, in all cases they're non-default settings, and AFAICT these have no over-riding dependencies.


Problem is that's just the beginning now, I have absolutely NFC what these AF.x modes affect or imply in each camera. But at this stage I think it's another big plus for K-r, only modifying behaviour of a default AF.S there, not forcing into possibly unwanted [?] AF.C territory.
So looks like some serious reading up is on the agenda for me (then maybe back with more lame questions. )

.R. -- Still as confused as a baby in a topless bar and not quite as happy.

Last edited by Hypocorism; 02-16-2011 at 11:20 AM.
02-16-2011, 09:41 AM   #11
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AF.S(ingle) camera will stop focusing once focus is acquired (e.g useful for focus and recompose)
AF.C(ontinuous) camera will keep on focusing if it looses focus
02-16-2011, 10:30 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote
AF.S(ingle) camera will stop focusing once focus is acquired (e.g useful for focus and recompose)
AF.C(ontinuous) camera will keep on focusing if it looses focus
Ta, they sound cooperative enough to live with. Will have to see if the .C type becomes disruptive in what I might typically use the K-x for.

At this stage it's targeted to be the mainly manual focus lenses camera although those roles might get swapped later for other reasons.

.R.

Last edited by Hypocorism; 02-16-2011 at 10:37 AM.
02-16-2011, 03:37 PM   #13
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People seem to get mixed up all the time between exposure modes, metering modes and focusing modes.

Anyway, the OP'er has mixed up exposure modes with focus mode. "Manual" on the exposure mode dial has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with focusing mode. Nor should it.

AF.C is a perfect solution.
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