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**sergysergy** · 04-24-2011, 08:42 AM

thanks RioRico....that's what I though

I am having a lot of fun with it though

**sergysergy** · 05-09-2011, 12:58 PM

Ok..the next step is a flash....any recommendations?
I have been reading about ways of modifying the pop up flash so that it works better for macro (by putting plastic, cardboard, etc) but I am not sure if that is the best way to go. Would any cheap flash do?

RioRico · 05-09-2011, 03:48 PM

The pTTL flash system on your camera won't work automagically with a reversed lens, nor with anything but auto-aperture (A- or F- or FA- or DA-type) lenses mounted normally. The pop-up flash generally sucks with macro anyway. I'll use a ringflash or some external flash with auto-aperture lenses, and ambient or controlled constant light with a reversed or other manual-aperture lens.

Non-pTTL flash *can* be (and is) used with manual-aperture lenses for macro work, but it's a bit tricky. I'm lazy; I just don't bother. One thing about "cheap flashes", especially older ones: They may have trigger voltages that can FRY YOUR CAMERA! I use such but I make sure they never touch nor connect to the camera. They sit atop cheap slave triggers on strategically-placed 'pods. Before buying any cheap flash, check that it's safe to use with your camera. Others here can tell you how to do that; I'm about ready to fall asleep. [/me head goes THUNK onto the table]

**sergysergy** · 05-09-2011, 04:04 PM

haha, even when you are half asleep you help me. thanks RioRico.
I don't want to (cannot) spend too much so that's why I am not sure what I should get

RioRico · 05-09-2011, 07:41 PM

OK, I'm half-awake again, but not for long. Whatever flash you are thinking of, gargle for its name plus TRIGGER VOLTAGE. This information will keep you from bricking your camera.

[Bricking a camera: turning a camera into a brick.]

And/or get any old cheap (five bucks max) flash(es), and some rotten-cheap minipods, and some nice cheap slave triggers (about US$8 on eBay, shipped slowly) and arrange those around the poor dazed innocent subject. Use your pop-up flash to trigger those slave lights. Experiment with placement (camera, lights, subject) and exposure (speed, f-stop, camera and flash modes, ISO, filters) till you get it right.

[Filters: you may need some ND if the flashes are too bright.]

That should help. Now I think it's time to pull off my Chewbacca foot-warmers and crawl in. Zzzz...

**sergysergy** · 05-09-2011, 10:15 PM

do you think this flash should be fine?

I have read in the reviews that it can be used with the kx safely...:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographic-equipment-sale/143283-sale-m...worldwide.html

jstevewhite · 05-10-2011, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by sergysergy

do you think this flash should be fine?

I have read in the reviews that it can be used with the kx safely...:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographic-equipment-sale/143283-sale-m...worldwide.html

I use the Metz 48 AF-1 both for macro and normal applications. I use a large (10x10) lumiquest diffuser that acts as a rather large softbox (for macro subjects) just above the lens. I typically set the magnification I want to shoot at and chimp in the exposure manually, because any bright specular highlights cause P-TTL to puke and die. After getting inexplicably underexposed images of shiny beetles, I figured this out. So if you set your magnification ( dial in the focus, set the flash power to properly expose test subject ) you have a point-and-shoot high-quality macro. You walk up on your subject 'til it's in focus, and start takin' pictures

disclaimer: I don't even know what "chimp" means, except that it seems to mean "evaluate your exposure or composition by real-world feedback (looking at the LCD) rather than abstract measurement".

**sergysergy** · 05-11-2011, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by jstevewhite

I use the Metz 48 AF-1 both for macro and normal applications. I use a large (10x10) lumiquest diffuser that acts as a rather large softbox (for macro subjects) just above the lens. I typically set the magnification I want to shoot at and chimp in the exposure manually, because any bright specular highlights cause P-TTL to puke and die. After getting inexplicably underexposed images of shiny beetles, I figured this out. So if you set your magnification ( dial in the focus, set the flash power to properly expose test subject ) you have a point-and-shoot high-quality macro. You walk up on your subject 'til it's in focus, and start takin' pictures

disclaimer: I don't even know what "chimp" means, except that it seems to mean "evaluate your exposure or composition by real-world feedback (looking at the LCD) rather than abstract measurement".

oook, thanks!

sagiboy · 05-11-2011, 09:19 PM

Guys, do you think my M200 would be a good candidiate for this 'reverse lens macro' project??? Should I get a reverse ring and mount the ring and the the camera reversed and I'm good to go???

RioRico · 05-11-2011, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by sagiboy

Guys, do you think my M200 would be a good candidiate for this 'reverse lens macro' project??? Should I get a reverse ring and mount the ring and the the camera reversed and I'm good to go???

The lens will work, reversed. With an M lens (or anything but a DA) you have an aperture ring, so you can control the f-stops. Personally, I find 200mm a bit long for comfortable use, reversed. It's still a 200mm lens. Your working distance will be under 50mm / 2in. Your DOF will be very thin.

Mount-reversal rings are cheap, like around US$5, so experimentation won't be costly. And you could use that adapter with cheap step-rings, to reverse lenses with smaller front threads. I say, GO FOR IT!

yeatzee · 05-11-2011, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by sagiboy

Guys, do you think my M200 would be a good candidiate for this 'reverse lens macro' project??? Should I get a reverse ring and mount the ring and the the camera reversed and I'm good to go???

The M 200 would be a fantastic lens for a stacked lens macro project

RioRico · 05-11-2011, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by yeatzee

The M 200 would be a fantastic lens for a stacked lens macro project

Good idea! Yeah, I forgot to mention that. With a cheap simple male-male thread-reversal ring, a 50mm secondary can be stacked on the 200mm primary for 4:1 magnification! Shoot the reflections on an ant's butt! Umm, be sure to use a tripod, eh?

yeatzee · 05-12-2011, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by RioRico

Good idea! Yeah, I forgot to mention that. With a cheap simple male-male thread-reversal ring, a 50mm secondary can be stacked on the 200mm primary for 4:1 magnification! Shoot the reflections on an ant's butt! Umm, be sure to use a tripod, eh?

I really wish I still had mine :ugh:

I need a tele prime longer than 135mm for macro's.....

I want MORE magnification... MOOORRREEE!

RioRico · 05-12-2011, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by yeatzee

I really wish I still had mine :ugh:

I see old tripods in thrift shops. Maybe you could get lucky!

Quote:

I need a tele prime longer than 135mm for macro's.....

Cheap manual 200's are cheap. Even good manual 200's are cheap.

Quote:

I want MORE magnification... MOOORRREEE!

One word: Microscope adapter. One more word: Lotsa macro tubes.

yeatzee · 05-12-2011, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by RioRico

I see old tripods in thrift shops. Maybe you could get lucky!

Cheap manual 200's are cheap. Even good manual 200's are cheap.

One word: Microscope adapter. One more word: Lotsa macro tubes.

believe me ive been looking at objectives for a while now!

Yeah i guess they are "cheap"..... just not cheap enough

05-09-2011, 07:41 PM	#35
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	OK, I'm half-awake again, but not for long. Whatever flash you are thinking of, gargle for its name plus TRIGGER VOLTAGE. This information will keep you from bricking your camera. [Bricking a camera: turning a camera into a brick.] And/or get any old cheap (five bucks max) flash(es), and some rotten-cheap minipods, and some nice cheap slave triggers (about US$8 on eBay, shipped slowly) and arrange those around the poor dazed innocent subject. Use your pop-up flash to trigger those slave lights. Experiment with placement (camera, lights, subject) and exposure (speed, f-stop, camera and flash modes, ISO, filters) till you get it right. [Filters: you may need some ND if the flashes are too bright.] That should help. Now I think it's time to pull off my Chewbacca foot-warmers and crawl in. Zzzz... Last edited by RioRico; 05-10-2011 at 01:09 AM.

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04-24-2011, 08:42 AM	#31
sergysergy Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,175 Original Poster	thanks RioRico....that's what I though I am having a lot of fun with it though

05-09-2011, 12:58 PM	#32
sergysergy Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,175 Original Poster	Ok..the next step is a flash....any recommendations? I have been reading about ways of modifying the pop up flash so that it works better for macro (by putting plastic, cardboard, etc) but I am not sure if that is the best way to go. Would any cheap flash do?

05-09-2011, 03:48 PM	#33
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	The pTTL flash system on your camera won't work automagically with a reversed lens, nor with anything but auto-aperture (A- or F- or FA- or DA-type) lenses mounted normally. The pop-up flash generally sucks with macro anyway. I'll use a ringflash or some external flash with auto-aperture lenses, and ambient or controlled constant light with a reversed or other manual-aperture lens. Non-pTTL flash can be (and is) used with manual-aperture lenses for macro work, but it's a bit tricky. I'm lazy; I just don't bother. One thing about "cheap flashes", especially older ones: They may have trigger voltages that can FRY YOUR CAMERA! I use such but I make sure they never touch nor connect to the camera. They sit atop cheap slave triggers on strategically-placed 'pods. Before buying any cheap flash, check that it's safe to use with your camera. Others here can tell you how to do that; I'm about ready to fall asleep. [/me head goes THUNK onto the table]

05-09-2011, 04:04 PM	#34
sergysergy Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,175 Original Poster	haha, even when you are half asleep you help me. thanks RioRico. I don't want to (cannot) spend too much so that's why I am not sure what I should get

05-09-2011, 10:15 PM	#36
sergysergy Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,175 Original Poster	do you think this flash should be fine? I have read in the reviews that it can be used with the kx safely...: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographic-equipment-sale/143283-sale-m...worldwide.html

05-10-2011, 01:54 PM	#37
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by sergysergy do you think this flash should be fine? I have read in the reviews that it can be used with the kx safely...: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographic-equipment-sale/143283-sale-m...worldwide.html I use the Metz 48 AF-1 both for macro and normal applications. I use a large (10x10) lumiquest diffuser that acts as a rather large softbox (for macro subjects) just above the lens. I typically set the magnification I want to shoot at and chimp in the exposure manually, because any bright specular highlights cause P-TTL to puke and die. After getting inexplicably underexposed images of shiny beetles, I figured this out. So if you set your magnification ( dial in the focus, set the flash power to properly expose test subject ) you have a point-and-shoot high-quality macro. You walk up on your subject 'til it's in focus, and start takin' pictures disclaimer: I don't even know what "chimp" means, except that it seems to mean "evaluate your exposure or composition by real-world feedback (looking at the LCD) rather than abstract measurement".

05-11-2011, 03:52 PM	#38
sergysergy Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,175 Original Poster	Originally posted by jstevewhite I use the Metz 48 AF-1 both for macro and normal applications. I use a large (10x10) lumiquest diffuser that acts as a rather large softbox (for macro subjects) just above the lens. I typically set the magnification I want to shoot at and chimp in the exposure manually, because any bright specular highlights cause P-TTL to puke and die. After getting inexplicably underexposed images of shiny beetles, I figured this out. So if you set your magnification ( dial in the focus, set the flash power to properly expose test subject ) you have a point-and-shoot high-quality macro. You walk up on your subject 'til it's in focus, and start takin' pictures disclaimer: I don't even know what "chimp" means, except that it seems to mean "evaluate your exposure or composition by real-world feedback (looking at the LCD) rather than abstract measurement". oook, thanks!

05-11-2011, 09:19 PM	#39
sagiboy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: LI Posts: 230	Guys, do you think my M200 would be a good candidiate for this 'reverse lens macro' project??? Should I get a reverse ring and mount the ring and the the camera reversed and I'm good to go???

05-11-2011, 09:34 PM	#40
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by sagiboy Guys, do you think my M200 would be a good candidiate for this 'reverse lens macro' project??? Should I get a reverse ring and mount the ring and the the camera reversed and I'm good to go??? The lens will work, reversed. With an M lens (or anything but a DA) you have an aperture ring, so you can control the f-stops. Personally, I find 200mm a bit long for comfortable use, reversed. It's still a 200mm lens. Your working distance will be under 50mm / 2in. Your DOF will be very thin. Mount-reversal rings are cheap, like around US$5, so experimentation won't be costly. And you could use that adapter with cheap step-rings, to reverse lenses with smaller front threads. I say, GO FOR IT!

05-11-2011, 09:38 PM	#41
yeatzee Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Temecula Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,675	Originally posted by sagiboy Guys, do you think my M200 would be a good candidiate for this 'reverse lens macro' project??? Should I get a reverse ring and mount the ring and the the camera reversed and I'm good to go??? The M 200 would be a fantastic lens for a stacked lens macro project

05-11-2011, 09:45 PM	#42
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by yeatzee The M 200 would be a fantastic lens for a stacked lens macro project Good idea! Yeah, I forgot to mention that. With a cheap simple male-male thread-reversal ring, a 50mm secondary can be stacked on the 200mm primary for 4:1 magnification! Shoot the reflections on an ant's butt! Umm, be sure to use a tripod, eh?

05-12-2011, 12:17 AM	#43
yeatzee Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Temecula Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,675	Originally posted by RioRico Good idea! Yeah, I forgot to mention that. With a cheap simple male-male thread-reversal ring, a 50mm secondary can be stacked on the 200mm primary for 4:1 magnification! Shoot the reflections on an ant's butt! Umm, be sure to use a tripod, eh? I really wish I still had mine :ugh: I need a tele prime longer than 135mm for macro's..... I want MORE magnification... MOOORRREEE!

05-12-2011, 05:35 AM	#44
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by yeatzee I really wish I still had mine :ugh: I see old tripods in thrift shops. Maybe you could get lucky! Quote: I need a tele prime longer than 135mm for macro's..... Cheap manual 200's are cheap. Even good manual 200's are cheap. Quote: I want MORE magnification... MOOORRREEE! One word: Microscope adapter. One more word: Lotsa macro tubes.

05-12-2011, 06:41 AM	#45
yeatzee Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Temecula Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,675	Originally posted by RioRico I see old tripods in thrift shops. Maybe you could get lucky! Cheap manual 200's are cheap. Even good manual 200's are cheap. One word: Microscope adapter. One more word: Lotsa macro tubes. believe me ive been looking at objectives for a while now! Yeah i guess they are "cheap"..... just not cheap enough

reversed lens?

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