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emptydam · 10-22-2007, 04:47 AM

I have a 1stDS and need to justify spending $1000 for a new body. Do the extra pixels really improve the image quality? Does the shake reduction make much difference, esp in low light when exposures have to be longer? Are the standard Pentax lenses bundled with the camera worth an extra $100?? I got a cheap Sigma with my last body and almost threw it in the bin. There seem to be focus issues with some of these lenses and given the lens costs about $100 it seems hardly surprising some of them do not work very well. Any comments would be appreciated, especially honest ones after the glow of a new camera has worn off a bit.
Cheers

RMabo · 10-22-2007, 05:16 AM

Dear Emptydam,

thank you for your inquiry. I have both the *ist DS and K10D and I do not feel that the few extra pixels alone are worth the upgrade. A lens upgrade will surely give you better image quality for money than a few extra Mp's. On small sized prints or web images I found it hard to tell the difference, if any at all. Now, the K10D is a very different camera to the *ist DS, with extra features and easier handling of aperture, shutter, white balance and other things, it is more robust and has weather sealing, the autofocus is faster and the metering allows for more blowned out highlights than the *ist DS does - only you can decide if these things are important to you. The shake reduction does improve image quality, yes that is my own experience with handheld shots. It does give an extra margin. Main drawback with the K10D is the size and weight, the *ist DS is so easy to have with me all the time so it is my "going anywhere"-cam, with the K10D being used for the more "serious" images.

As for lenses, the DA 18-55 is an Ok lens or actually better than ok, it is a very good lens for the money, but the DA 16-45 or the DA Star 16-50 f/2.8 will give you more, of course.

You may considering the DA 16-45 f/4, Sigma 17-70 f/2.8-4.5 or 18-50 f/2.8 for your *ist DS, this surely will improve image quality compared to the cheaply Sigma you have now (the Sigma 18-55?). And then, you may change to the K10D later on if you feel you want the extra flexibility it gives. (yes, it is possible to buy the K10D without lens).

philmorley · 10-22-2007, 06:10 AM

Yes the sigma lens that is bundled here is garbage, I haven't been watching for a while, but one time saw one not get a single bid on ebay with starting price of $25.

As for camera as Roland said there are a number of differences (quite a lot IMO), and definetly not just the megapixels to be taken into account, however for actual image quality there is very little difference IMO.

Personally for me the differences are worth it, but it may not be for you. Depending on your needs, what you feel the k10 will do for you that the ds doesn't etc also depends on what glass you have it may worth putting the money into the glass (the tamron 28-75 is also very good and can be had reasonable cheap on ebay).

If you are not in a great hurry, it *may* be worth spending on glass and waiting on the body until the January announcements are made, if they release new cameras not long later (big if???) there could be some nice deals on 2nd hand k10s after a new camera is released, like we are seeing on the 16-45. But who knows on this?

Phil

Peter Zack · 10-22-2007, 06:35 AM

I agree with the 2 posters above. Invest in glass if you are happy with the camera and it's features. I've seen some great shots from this and other 6Mp Pentax cameras and for most printing/posting situations it is more than enough. As Phil said the prices are dropping on the K10D so there's no rush to buy IMO.
I just did the opposite and added a *istD to my bag. Because I wanted something lighter, with TTL flash ability and the advantage of the cleaner high ISO image that the 6Mp sensor gives.

It's all about the glass. The best you can afford will do far more than adding/switching bodies. For me, I'm not spending another dime on a lens that "will get me by till I can afford a..." I'll just wait and save till I get the right lens.

Check this to see what I mean:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/13562-i-touche...y-one-thm.html

JamesD · 10-22-2007, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

It's all about the glass. The best you can afford will do far more than adding/switching bodies. For me, I'm not spending another dime on a lens that "will get me by till I can afford a..." I'll just wait and save till I get the right lens.

Couldn't agree more.

Edvinas · 10-22-2007, 07:41 AM

I have experience with both *ist DS and K10D. On pure IQ, K10D isn't really better than *ist DS. In low sensitivities K10D is better, however *ist DS is better in ISO800 and upwards.

However K10D shines in another area. It's configurability, flexibility, convenience of handling is excellent. K10D just blows away *ist DS in this area. Of course shake reduction is also a big plus.

When I bought K10D I didn't look back at my *ist DS... Sold it two months later.

emptydam · 11-11-2007, 05:02 AM

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I will go for a bare body and save up for a lens.
One more question. My normal photos with the 6 Mpixel on high quality JPEG use about 2 Mbytes per photo of memory. What is the file size if I use a high quality JPEG and the 10 Mpixel K10D?
Thanks again,

mattdm · 11-11-2007, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by emptydam

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I will go for a bare body and save up for a lens.
One more question. My normal photos with the 6 Mpixel on high quality JPEG use about 2 Mbytes per photo of memory. What is the file size if I use a high quality JPEG and the 10 Mpixel K10D?

Four or five.

I know this is heretical, but you may want to consider using ** instead of ***. About half the file size for a few percent decrease in detail -- so small you can't tell even if you pixel-peep. Skeptical? Try taking a picture in RAW and converting it to ***, **, and * in-camera. Then, upload them to your computer and view at 100% and try to tell which is which.

When you're taking a picture -- or a photoshoot -- that you know will be particularly special, shoot in RAW+JPEG, then develop into ***.

little laker · 11-11-2007, 10:55 AM

That's interesting Matt,

I wonder if that's the same with the K100D.

I have to agree with everyone above.
I've noticed a big difference upgrading glass, and can't picture the K10 giving me any real picture difference.

Although if your going to blow the pic's up beyond poster size the extra pixels will give you a bigger picture.

**Lowell Goudge** · 11-11-2007, 11:16 AM

This might go against the grain a little, but I think the upgrade is worthwhile, or at least it was for me.

I upgraded from *istD to K10D (but I kept my *istD for TTL Flash, and ISO 3200).

I have gone from the first DSLR to the latest, with I think 6 other 6.1 mp bodies released in between.

Biggest benefits I find are, speed as exhibited by 3.2 frames contiuous in JPEG, instant relpay not wait 5 seconds, and better controls (althoug *istD is very good)

However, when you read other posters, concentrate on glass first is correct. But I had an advantage, I have shot pentax for 25 years, so I had most of the glass I wanted.

Getting a K10D will cost you more, because you mau also need to get a P-TTL flash (I bought the AF540FGZ)

The only lens I bought since was a sigma 10-20 ultra wide zoom.

Arpe · 11-11-2007, 04:18 PM

2 reasons I would upgrade to K10D from my istDS
1- SR
2- Faster focus speed.

But I'm saving slowly to upgrade so hopefully I might, perhaps, maybe end up with one of the next generation cameras.

10-22-2007, 04:47 AM	#1
emptydam New Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: australia Posts: 5	k10D Is an upgrade worth it? I have a 1stDS and need to justify spending $1000 for a new body. Do the extra pixels really improve the image quality? Does the shake reduction make much difference, esp in low light when exposures have to be longer? Are the standard Pentax lenses bundled with the camera worth an extra $100?? I got a cheap Sigma with my last body and almost threw it in the bin. There seem to be focus issues with some of these lenses and given the lens costs about $100 it seems hardly surprising some of them do not work very well. Any comments would be appreciated, especially honest ones after the glow of a new camera has worn off a bit. Cheers

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10-22-2007, 05:16 AM	#2
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	Dear Emptydam, thank you for your inquiry. I have both the ist DS and K10D and I do not feel that the few extra pixels alone are worth the upgrade. A lens upgrade will surely give you better image quality for money than a few extra Mp's. On small sized prints or web images I found it hard to tell the difference, if any at all. Now, the K10D is a very different camera to the ist DS, with extra features and easier handling of aperture, shutter, white balance and other things, it is more robust and has weather sealing, the autofocus is faster and the metering allows for more blowned out highlights than the ist DS does - only you can decide if these things are important to you. The shake reduction does improve image quality, yes that is my own experience with handheld shots. It does give an extra margin. Main drawback with the K10D is the size and weight, the ist DS is so easy to have with me all the time so it is my "going anywhere"-cam, with the K10D being used for the more "serious" images. As for lenses, the DA 18-55 is an Ok lens or actually better than ok, it is a very good lens for the money, but the DA 16-45 or the DA Star 16-50 f/2.8 will give you more, of course. You may considering the DA 16-45 f/4, Sigma 17-70 f/2.8-4.5 or 18-50 f/2.8 for your *ist DS, this surely will improve image quality compared to the cheaply Sigma you have now (the Sigma 18-55?). And then, you may change to the K10D later on if you feel you want the extra flexibility it gives. (yes, it is possible to buy the K10D without lens).

10-22-2007, 06:10 AM	#3
philmorley Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: in a house in Armidale, Australia Posts: 472	Yes the sigma lens that is bundled here is garbage, I haven't been watching for a while, but one time saw one not get a single bid on ebay with starting price of $25. As for camera as Roland said there are a number of differences (quite a lot IMO), and definetly not just the megapixels to be taken into account, however for actual image quality there is very little difference IMO. Personally for me the differences are worth it, but it may not be for you. Depending on your needs, what you feel the k10 will do for you that the ds doesn't etc also depends on what glass you have it may worth putting the money into the glass (the tamron 28-75 is also very good and can be had reasonable cheap on ebay). If you are not in a great hurry, it may be worth spending on glass and waiting on the body until the January announcements are made, if they release new cameras not long later (big if???) there could be some nice deals on 2nd hand k10s after a new camera is released, like we are seeing on the 16-45. But who knows on this? Phil

10-22-2007, 06:35 AM	#4
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	I agree with the 2 posters above. Invest in glass if you are happy with the camera and it's features. I've seen some great shots from this and other 6Mp Pentax cameras and for most printing/posting situations it is more than enough. As Phil said the prices are dropping on the K10D so there's no rush to buy IMO. I just did the opposite and added a *istD to my bag. Because I wanted something lighter, with TTL flash ability and the advantage of the cleaner high ISO image that the 6Mp sensor gives. It's all about the glass. The best you can afford will do far more than adding/switching bodies. For me, I'm not spending another dime on a lens that "will get me by till I can afford a..." I'll just wait and save till I get the right lens. Check this to see what I mean: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/13562-i-touche...y-one-thm.html

10-22-2007, 07:33 AM	#5
JamesD Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 536	Originally posted by Peter Zack It's all about the glass. The best you can afford will do far more than adding/switching bodies. For me, I'm not spending another dime on a lens that "will get me by till I can afford a..." I'll just wait and save till I get the right lens. Couldn't agree more.

10-22-2007, 07:41 AM	#6
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	I have experience with both ist DS and K10D. On pure IQ, K10D isn't really better than ist DS. In low sensitivities K10D is better, however ist DS is better in ISO800 and upwards. However K10D shines in another area. It's configurability, flexibility, convenience of handling is excellent. K10D just blows away ist DS in this area. Of course shake reduction is also a big plus. When I bought K10D I didn't look back at my *ist DS... Sold it two months later.

11-11-2007, 05:02 AM	#7
emptydam New Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: australia Posts: 5 Original Poster	Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I will go for a bare body and save up for a lens. One more question. My normal photos with the 6 Mpixel on high quality JPEG use about 2 Mbytes per photo of memory. What is the file size if I use a high quality JPEG and the 10 Mpixel K10D? Thanks again,

11-11-2007, 05:58 AM	#8
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by emptydam Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I will go for a bare body and save up for a lens. One more question. My normal photos with the 6 Mpixel on high quality JPEG use about 2 Mbytes per photo of memory. What is the file size if I use a high quality JPEG and the 10 Mpixel K10D? Four or five. I know this is heretical, but you may want to consider using instead of . About half the file size for a few percent decrease in detail -- so small you can't tell even if you pixel-peep. Skeptical? Try taking a picture in RAW and converting it to , , and * in-camera. Then, upload them to your computer and view at 100% and try to tell which is which. When you're taking a picture -- or a photoshoot -- that you know will be particularly special, shoot in RAW+JPEG, then develop into ***.

11-11-2007, 10:55 AM	#9
little laker Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,697	That's interesting Matt, I wonder if that's the same with the K100D. I have to agree with everyone above. I've noticed a big difference upgrading glass, and can't picture the K10 giving me any real picture difference. Although if your going to blow the pic's up beyond poster size the extra pixels will give you a bigger picture.

11-11-2007, 11:16 AM	#10
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,892	This might go against the grain a little, but I think the upgrade is worthwhile, or at least it was for me. I upgraded from istD to K10D (but I kept my istD for TTL Flash, and ISO 3200). I have gone from the first DSLR to the latest, with I think 6 other 6.1 mp bodies released in between. Biggest benefits I find are, speed as exhibited by 3.2 frames contiuous in JPEG, instant relpay not wait 5 seconds, and better controls (althoug *istD is very good) However, when you read other posters, concentrate on glass first is correct. But I had an advantage, I have shot pentax for 25 years, so I had most of the glass I wanted. Getting a K10D will cost you more, because you mau also need to get a P-TTL flash (I bought the AF540FGZ) The only lens I bought since was a sigma 10-20 ultra wide zoom.

11-11-2007, 04:18 PM	#11
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	2 reasons I would upgrade to K10D from my istDS 1- SR 2- Faster focus speed. But I'm saving slowly to upgrade so hopefully I might, perhaps, maybe end up with one of the next generation cameras.

k10D Is an upgrade worth it?

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