Camera review summarizes K10D nicely

WaterDog · 10-24-2007, 12:18 PM

A detailed review of the K10D is a great thing. But a review of another manufacturer’s camera with comparison to the K10D is also useful. For example, today dpreview posted a detailed review of the Canon 40D. While I am not interested in the 40D, their comparison to the K10D, both good and bad, really summarizes the K10D nicely.

Why they compared to the K10D
... we opted for the K10D as a great value-for-money alternative, some $400 cheaper than the EOS 40D but overflowing with features (including in-body Image Stabilization).

JPEG comparison
The K10D demonstrates approximately the same levels of detail as the EOS 40D but simply isn't as sharp... the camera's built-in image processor isn't extracting the detail (or is destroying it with heavy-handed noise reduction).

RAW comparison
There isn't a single camera on the market which gains so much by shooting RAW... The difference is night and day and indeed the K10D in this comparison trumps the EOS 40D for detail...

I am very pleased that the review examined both JPEG and RAW output formats. And their reasoning for selecting the K10D for comparison purposes provides a great one line reason why so many of us have purchased and believe in the K10D.

So now I have a new motto:

"The K10D is a great value-for-money camera, cheaper than comparable models, but overflowing with features including in-body Image Stabilization."

Regards,
Arthur

m8o · 10-24-2007, 01:12 PM

that's just like what we 'lovingly' say about ourselves here where I work...
"almost as good, just a lot cheaper!"

thnx for the pot. I'll go read it to check the details on the comparo. (edit: oh, I see, not a comparo test, just comparisons made as part of the normal review)

Wethphotography · 10-24-2007, 01:18 PM

Arthur,
Thanks for sharing this. Maybe now dpreview can update their K10D review and remove the (JUST) from the end of the HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

But I won't hold my breath.

m8o · 10-24-2007, 01:28 PM

Ok, here's a rhetorical question... If the comparo to the D200 can be done twice, one with "Default" sharpening, and one as "Canon EOS 40D vs. Nikon D200 (High sharpening)", why couldn't the same be done with the K10D, changing the in-camera processing setting which is well known to the reviewer (that's an assumption, but what 'techie' person heavily involved with D-SLRs dosn't know that @ this point) to give the 'sharper' image from JPG conversion?!!! I'd cry foul if it wasn't for seeing the RAW tests included. Still, lopsided approach done there IMO.

Last edited by m8o; 10-24-2007 at 01:34 PM.

axl · 10-24-2007, 01:48 PM

checked DPreview briefly,
and it just confirmed what I knew before: Pentax was right way to go!
I "only" have K100D but couldn't be happier with it. Why shall we pay couple hundred more, if we can get all we need for a lot cheaper!!!

**rogerstg** · 10-25-2007, 07:42 AM

What amazes me is that Pentax has not upgraded the OS to address this issues.

Deni · 10-26-2007, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by rogerstg

What amazes me is that Pentax has not upgraded the OS to address this issues.

There's no issue in the first place. People who don't know or can't bother to change from natural to bright in order to get more sharpening in JPGs have probably chosen the wrong camera.

JAZZer · 10-26-2007, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by m8o

Ok, here's a rhetorical question... If the comparo to the D200 can be done twice, one with "Default" sharpening, and one as "Canon EOS 40D vs. Nikon D200 (High sharpening)", why couldn't the same be done with the K10D, changing the in-camera processing setting which is well known to the reviewer (that's an assumption, but what 'techie' person heavily involved with D-SLRs dosn't know that @ this point) to give the 'sharper' image from JPG conversion?!!! I'd cry foul if it wasn't for seeing the RAW tests included. Still, lopsided approach done there IMO.

Hi is really bad person !!! Play with us....
...he don't have any credibility for me!!!! Fu***** canon lover , and on canon's pay list!

He knows that "Bright" mode is default in all (entry) model of Pentax, but in K10D - advanced/prosumer/pro model default is "Nature". Pentax engineer put that setting as default because they assume is more practically for advanced/prosumer/pro users (more practically for theirs post processing).
..but he don't wanted to change this setting in test !!!
(Canon's default mode is for not post processing pictures, like Pentax's "Bright" mode)

axl · 10-26-2007, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by JAZZer

Hi is really bad person !!! ..............

harsh words!
Yes he could have done tests for both modes (bright and natural) the same way he did for D200 (with and without sharpening) but those are still harsh words.
K10D stood it's ground anyway.
and I like dpreview's reviews anyway. They are usefull and informative.
btw: K100D had nice one

**rogerstg** · 10-26-2007, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by Deni

People who don't know ... to change from natural to bright in order to get more sharpening in JPGs have probably chosen the wrong camera.

How's the view up there on your high horse?
Any neophyte can increase the sharpness and contrast settings, but that occurs at a cost to the image in other ways. OTOH, starting with Raw and applying no additional sharpening results in a sharper image than the camera's results in "natural" mode. I may be wrong, but that tells me that something is going on to degrade the image's sharpness in "natural mode."

OTOH, if "Bright" results in an image with less manipulation during conversion, the manual should say that. Otherwise the terms they use are misleading. Do you have some inside knowledge that this is the case?

carpents · 10-26-2007, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by rogerstg

How's the view up there on your high horse?

Speaking of horses, the one you are beating has long been dead.

10-24-2007, 12:18 PM	#1
WaterDog New Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Burlington, Canada Posts: 19	Camera review summarizes K10D nicely A detailed review of the K10D is a great thing. But a review of another manufacturer’s camera with comparison to the K10D is also useful. For example, today dpreview posted a detailed review of the Canon 40D. While I am not interested in the 40D, their comparison to the K10D, both good and bad, really summarizes the K10D nicely. Why they compared to the K10D ... we opted for the K10D as a great value-for-money alternative, some $400 cheaper than the EOS 40D but overflowing with features (including in-body Image Stabilization). JPEG comparison The K10D demonstrates approximately the same levels of detail as the EOS 40D but simply isn't as sharp... the camera's built-in image processor isn't extracting the detail (or is destroying it with heavy-handed noise reduction). RAW comparison There isn't a single camera on the market which gains so much by shooting RAW... The difference is night and day and indeed the K10D in this comparison trumps the EOS 40D for detail... I am very pleased that the review examined both JPEG and RAW output formats. And their reasoning for selecting the K10D for comparison purposes provides a great one line reason why so many of us have purchased and believe in the K10D. So now I have a new motto: "The K10D is a great value-for-money camera, cheaper than comparable models, but overflowing with features including in-body Image Stabilization." Regards, Arthur

10-24-2007, 01:12 PM	#2
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	that's just like what we 'lovingly' say about ourselves here where I work... "almost as good, just a lot cheaper!" thnx for the pot. I'll go read it to check the details on the comparo. (edit: oh, I see, not a comparo test, just comparisons made as part of the normal review) Last edited by m8o; 10-24-2007 at 01:23 PM.

10-26-2007, 02:39 AM	#8
JAZZer Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 39	Originally posted by m8o Ok, here's a rhetorical question... If the comparo to the D200 can be done twice, one with "Default" sharpening, and one as "Canon EOS 40D vs. Nikon D200 (High sharpening)", why couldn't the same be done with the K10D, changing the in-camera processing setting which is well known to the reviewer (that's an assumption, but what 'techie' person heavily involved with D-SLRs dosn't know that @ this point) to give the 'sharper' image from JPG conversion?!!! I'd cry foul if it wasn't for seeing the RAW tests included. Still, lopsided approach done there IMO. Hi is really bad person !!! Play with us.... ...he don't have any credibility for me!!!! Fu***** canon lover , and on canon's pay list! He knows that "Bright" mode is default in all (entry) model of Pentax, but in K10D - advanced/prosumer/pro model default is "Nature". Pentax engineer put that setting as default because they assume is more practically for advanced/prosumer/pro users (more practically for theirs post processing). ..but he don't wanted to change this setting in test !!! (Canon's default mode is for not post processing pictures, like Pentax's "Bright" mode) Last edited by JAZZer; 10-26-2007 at 02:45 AM.

10-26-2007, 07:07 AM	#10
rogerstg Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 1,168	Originally posted by Deni People who don't know ... to change from natural to bright in order to get more sharpening in JPGs have probably chosen the wrong camera. How's the view up there on your high horse? Any neophyte can increase the sharpness and contrast settings, but that occurs at a cost to the image in other ways. OTOH, starting with Raw and applying no additional sharpening results in a sharper image than the camera's results in "natural" mode. I may be wrong, but that tells me that something is going on to degrade the image's sharpness in "natural mode." OTOH, if "Bright" results in an image with less manipulation during conversion, the manual should say that. Otherwise the terms they use are misleading. Do you have some inside knowledge that this is the case? Last edited by rogerstg; 10-26-2007 at 07:12 AM.

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10-24-2007, 01:18 PM	#3
Wethphotography Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Washington, D.C., USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 417	Arthur, Thanks for sharing this. Maybe now dpreview can update their K10D review and remove the (JUST) from the end of the HIGHLY RECOMMENDED! But I won't hold my breath.

10-24-2007, 01:28 PM	#4
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	Ok, here's a rhetorical question... If the comparo to the D200 can be done twice, one with "Default" sharpening, and one as "Canon EOS 40D vs. Nikon D200 (High sharpening)", why couldn't the same be done with the K10D, changing the in-camera processing setting which is well known to the reviewer (that's an assumption, but what 'techie' person heavily involved with D-SLRs dosn't know that @ this point) to give the 'sharper' image from JPG conversion?!!! I'd cry foul if it wasn't for seeing the RAW tests included. Still, lopsided approach done there IMO. Last edited by m8o; 10-24-2007 at 01:34 PM.

10-24-2007, 01:48 PM	#5
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	checked DPreview briefly, and it just confirmed what I knew before: Pentax was right way to go! I "only" have K100D but couldn't be happier with it. Why shall we pay couple hundred more, if we can get all we need for a lot cheaper!!!

10-25-2007, 07:42 AM	#6
rogerstg Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 1,168	What amazes me is that Pentax has not upgraded the OS to address this issues.

10-26-2007, 12:52 AM	#7
Deni Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Tirana, Albania, South Europe, Planet Earth Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 621	Originally posted by rogerstg What amazes me is that Pentax has not upgraded the OS to address this issues. There's no issue in the first place. People who don't know or can't bother to change from natural to bright in order to get more sharpening in JPGs have probably chosen the wrong camera.

10-26-2007, 06:51 AM	#9
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	Originally posted by JAZZer Hi is really bad person !!! .............. harsh words! Yes he could have done tests for both modes (bright and natural) the same way he did for D200 (with and without sharpening) but those are still harsh words. K10D stood it's ground anyway. and I like dpreview's reviews anyway. They are usefull and informative. btw: K100D had nice one

10-26-2007, 07:15 AM	#11
carpents Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Chester, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,420	Originally posted by rogerstg How's the view up there on your high horse? Speaking of horses, the one you are beating has long been dead.