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10-27-2007, 12:52 AM   #1
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K10D + SDM = (Much) Slower AF Speed!?

I found this experiment to be quite interesting and the results and conclusion are rather disappointing though:-

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: Lack of Speed of the SDM

As this experiment or the recorded video has not been reported or quoted before here, I opt to share this information with all you guys, especially for those who has planned to acquire the new SDM lens(es) to be used on the K10D or the K100D Super. Anyway, I hope newer version of the Pentax SDM lenses can have improved faster and stronger SDM some days later, hopefully. Or, at least for new lens model(s) which are to be equipped with the SDM, this problem shall be eliminated.

10-27-2007, 01:41 AM   #2
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God,why do I get sucked into replying to this twit?

Another amateur wannabe puts together an amateur test and you proudly announce it as scientific proof of your hatred of all things Pentax.

It has been stated many times that Pentax AF is not as fast as others by how many milliseconds I don't know - do I care ? Not a jot. The SDM lenses are as stated fast, and quiet - Faster than others? Perhaps not - if fast autofocus is so important to you - go buy a canon. (oh yeah you already have one sitting on a shelf somewhere)

Now I own an *istDS, a camera you claim to be faulty. I also have two young children that move at a speed a little faster than light and amazingly the *istDs AF keeps up with them. I have also used it at the V8 car races where they are travelling at 250 KMH and no probs.

Now I am no pro and I know all about pro sports photographers needing fast AF and heaps of frames per second to ensure they capture just the right moment - and there are cameras specially made just for them and they can choose to use them or not.

Now I choose Pentax because they make cameras especially for me - I am not wealthy - Pentax allows me to own a digital camera and also has reasonably priced lenses including some superb old primes.

Without Pentax I would be forced to use one of those dinky toy rebels with the worst kit lens ever invented and would be battling to save for the very overpriced and mediocre canon lenses (subjective I know but it's my opinion).

So again I thank Pentax for allowing people like me to enjoy digital photography - We cant all afford Canon 5D's,Ricehigh, and I don't begrudge your wealth - but please stop your vendetta against Pentax so average people like me and our children can continue to enjoy the art of photography.
10-27-2007, 02:12 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Falcons Quote
God,why do I get sucked into replying to this twit?

Another amateur wannabe puts together an amateur test and you proudly announce it as scientific proof of your hatred of all things Pentax.
hahaha

i laughed pretty hard when i read that first bit

Now, may we get this thread locked before it spirals out of control and turns into a nasty shouting match?
10-27-2007, 02:30 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Falcons Quote
God,why do I get sucked into replying to this twit?
Well, I'm sure that you haven't found out what is reported before you replied, unfortunately.

QuoteQuote:
Another amateur wannabe puts together an amateur test and you proudly announce it as scientific proof of your hatred of all things Pentax.
I don't know if the user an amateur or not nor we know about his profession, I only know he used some kinds of instrument and method to measure the timings and record the results. He posts the recorded video too.

QuoteQuote:
It has been stated many times that Pentax AF is not as fast as others by how many milliseconds I don't know - do I care ? Not a jot. The SDM lenses are as stated fast, and quiet - Faster than others? Perhaps not - if fast autofocus is so important to you - go buy a canon. (oh yeah you already have one sitting on a shelf somewhere)
That's why I can state that you haven't read before replied. The user tested the speed of the AF with screw drive body AF motor against the SDM, which the former is obviously faster! (but it should not be like that, e.g., in case of Canon AFSLRs)

QuoteQuote:
Now I own an *istDS, a camera you claim to be faulty. I also have two young children that move at a speed a little faster than light and amazingly the *istDs AF keeps up with them. I have also used it at the V8 car races where they are travelling at 250 KMH and no probs.
I did use my DS to shoot children too. But it is just slow, IMHO. The K100D is faster but still inadequate. Well, the K10D is *slightly* faster again, but I still found it is inadequate with low hit rate. Now, the 5D is much faster, with much better moving target tracking ability and a higher hit rate. That's it.

QuoteQuote:
Now I am no pro and I know all about pro sports photographers needing fast AF and heaps of frames per second to ensure they capture just the right moment - and there are cameras specially made just for them and they can choose to use them or not.
One need not to be a PJ or a pro to get high hit rate pics for our family photog or snapshooting. A casual shooter like me would still want to get the best in-focus shots and the highest possible hit rate and/or also frame rate that the current best technology can offer even for photog that for memories and for our own casual shootings.

QuoteQuote:
Now I choose Pentax because they make cameras especially for me - I am not wealthy - Pentax allows me to own a digital camera and also has reasonably priced lenses including some superb old primes.
Really? The cost of equipment for all entry level DSLR and consumer lenses are all more or less the same - fact.

With other systems, the users actually have even more choices on 3rd party lenses which are cheap.

QuoteQuote:
Without Pentax I would be forced to use one of those dinky toy rebels with the worst kit lens ever invented and would be battling to save for the very overpriced and mediocre canon lenses (subjective I know but it's my opinion).
Canon's kit lens 18-55 optically is not that bad, it has better corner sharpness than our Pentax 18-55. The Pentax has better flare control and coatings, though and slightly more saturated color rendition and better build.

QuoteQuote:
So again I thank Pentax for allowing people like me to enjoy digital photography - We cant all afford Canon 5D's,Ricehigh, and I don't begrudge your wealth - but please stop your vendetta against Pentax so average people like me and our children can continue to enjoy the art of photography.
I have no vendetta against Pentax as quite some of you fanboys assumed. I always wanted and still wish them to be the best and upkeep everything of their own in the competition. However, their performance and (various wrong IMO) decisions made in the recent years just let me (and many other true old Pentaxians as well) down. But I still wish them to make better stuff in the future and rectify their errors and go strong again. At that time, I can have some new good Pentax bodies and lenses to choose from, unlike now.

10-27-2007, 02:42 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Falcons Quote
God,why do I get sucked into replying to this twit?
I am appalled at the way this forum is so selectively tolerant of offensive language.

A newbie joins up, and people are falling over themselves to say how friendly it is here.

Yet RH posts, and is instantly lynched. The nastiness of the tone in which his respondents post is in my view completely incompatible with a friendly, civilised environment. Yet such lynchings appear to be acceptable to the moderators.

Regardless of how unpopular someone's posts are, they should either be addressed reasonably, or not responded to.

I'm neither defending, nor attacking RH. I don't find his posts irritating, since I'm able to take from them the content I find interesting, and disregard what I do not.

But I find the typical swarm of nasty responses most unpleasant, and its apparent acceptability equally so.
10-27-2007, 03:03 AM   #6
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QUOTE ; Now, may we get this thread locked before it spirals out of control and turns into a nasty shouting match?




Please no! ..........







.
10-27-2007, 03:10 AM   #7
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I know I should not be doing this....and I'm really sorry...truly, I am!

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POPCORN! COCA COLA! POPCORN! GET YOUR POPCORN HERE! ROLL UP FOLKS, GET COMFORTABLE FOR THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH! ROLL UP ROLL UP.

10-27-2007, 03:18 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by GWP Quote
POPCORN! COCA COLA! POPCORN! GET YOUR POPCORN HERE! ROLL UP FOLKS, GET COMFORTABLE FOR THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH! ROLL UP ROLL UP.
Hey!
Can I get a coke to go with my popcorn please.

I think the general conclusion, like many have noted, is that sdm is to achieve a more quiet focus, not a faster one. The fact that both screw and sdm have to be supported in the same lens might be a slowing factor, but there is no evidence. I geuss what they need is really a new version of the AF system itself. Do canon usm lenses have only usm ? any tests indicating that on canon the usm lenses are a lot faster than the normal ones?

10-27-2007, 03:20 AM   #9
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OT

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
I found this experiment to be quite interesting and the results and conclusion are rather disappointing though:-

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: Lack of Speed of the SDM

As this experiment or the recorded video has not been reported or quoted before here, I opt to share this information with all you guys, especially for those who has planned to acquire the new SDM lens(es) to be used on the K10D or the K100D Super. Anyway, I hope newer version of the Pentax SDM lenses can have improved faster and stronger SDM some days later, hopefully. Or, at least for new lens model(s) which are to be equipped with the SDM, this problem shall be eliminated.
Still waiting for the 5D measurbation pages to be up...
10-27-2007, 03:32 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Still waiting for the 5D measurbation pages to be up...
Normally, I won't do measurbations for the gear I found no problem and satisfied with in real life for example like my MZ-S and 5D. These best equipment were taken under measurbations for just to make reference for how other bodies can be better or worse or simply wrong in comparison, like what I measurbated my *ist D and Ks.

But anyway, I might publish a shootout test with full sized photos for the following in the future, if I can still manage to do one:

1. MZ-S + FA 24-90 and FA 43 with Slide;

2. K100D + DA 16-45 and FA 28;

3. 5D + 24-105L and the EF 50/1.8II
10-27-2007, 03:36 AM   #11
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$3,000 verses $600

[QUOTE=RiceHigh;111072]

I did use my DS to shoot children too. But it is just slow, IMHO. The K100D is faster but still inadequate. Well, the K10D is *slightly* faster again, but I still found it is inadequate with low hit rate. Now, the 5D is much faster, with much better moving target tracking ability and a higher hit rate. That's it.

What idiot would compare a $3,000 body to a $600 body? Putting an entry level camera in the same breath as a "Pro" camera is a big compliment to the K10D. At least use fair comparisons in your Pentax bashings.
10-27-2007, 03:39 AM   #12
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Chris A before you have a go at me have a search of the years of vitriol from riceHigh and just wait till a proper engineer or someone takes him to task - out comes the race card faster than a canon 5d Autofocus - you may be a rich yuppie like him as well good luck to you - I still stand by my statement that he is a twit. If there is a nicer way of calling him a twit please substitute and be happy.

Ricehigh - here in Australia - Canon 400d is $889 Nikon D40 $799 Pentax K100D super $649

Two hundred dollars may not be a big deal to a wealthy person like you but to me it is - THAT IS A FACT.
The *istDs may have been too slow for you - but I believe it has more to do with your inadequacies than the camera. Prove me wrong I have photos to back me up lets see these photos of yours.
10-27-2007, 03:49 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
What idiot would compare a $3,000 body to a $600 body? Putting an entry level camera in the same breath as a "Pro" camera is a big compliment to the K10D. At least use fair comparisons in your Pentax bashings.
Don't happy so fast with such "compliment" as you suppose. Please look back to the basic question from just an end user perspective: IF the "top"-of-the-*Pentax*-line K10D does not satisfy his need, what ELSE can he/she, as a Pentax system user, can get to substitute??

For Canon and Nikon users, they have always upwards or downwards paths, e.g.:

Nikon: D40 -> D40X -> D80 -> D200 / S5 Pro -> D300 -> D2Xs -> D3
Canon: 350D -> 400D -> 30D -> 40D -> 5D -> 1D -> 1DS

Pentax? K100D <-> K10D???
10-27-2007, 03:52 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Falcons Quote
Chris A before you have a go at me have a search of the years of vitriol from riceHigh
I'm aware of the general view here and elsewhere that his testing methods and results are invalid, but I haven't seen any vitriol - just very unemotional criticism of Pentax equipment, some of which, maybe all of which for all I know, does seem to be based on badly designed tests and inappropriate comparisons between the K10D and much, much more expensive cameras.

Certainly, assuming that limit-to-limit timings of a lens drive with a lens cap on is necessarily any indication of actual focus speed is a childishly facile piece of experimental design, and it may be that much of RH's so-called measurebation is equally flawed.

However, none of that excuses the responses I read.

As for vitriol,

QuoteQuote:
you may be a rich yuppie like him
.. I don't think this exactly helps your so-called case.
10-27-2007, 03:57 AM   #15
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Thats a totally OT point, but I do agree with it Nevermind about k20d, give us k1d I want to upgrade not update
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