Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-06-2011, 10:49 AM   #1
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2011
Photos: Albums
Posts: 412
How Bad IS the K-7 Sensor? Really.

I know there's been a lot of talk about the K-7's ISO issues and many of you would be more than content to bury the subject, if not, perhaps the K-7 itself. I really needed to word an inquiry to my specific needs. I'd like to know really how bad the K-7 is at Noise control. It's funny how I never heard anything about this issue until long after it was released. Now that the K-5 is out, everybody is jumping on that $1400 bandwagon, and knocking the K-7. Quite honestly, I would never have any reason to go over ISO 320 or MAYBE 400, but for my shooting style, you'd have to kick me in the shin to get me to set it higher than 250. I've heard volumes about the K-x's good noise control capability, but frankly, anything over ISO 640 on the K-x, for me, is just too noisy for my high standards. I just hate noise. Sure you can fix all sorts of things on post processing, but that takes time and only improves PERCIEVED quality. I like to get as much right in camera as possible. What i'd like to know, for those of you who may have an idea, is how the K-7 may compare to the K-x in terms of noise when using the same general settings and ISO. Is the samsung sensor in the K-7 so bad, that differences in noise is detectable at the lowest ISO? Or would both sensors be about the same at ISO 100, and the K-7 get worse exponentially from a certain point? This is definitely what i'd be most concerned about. Having a noticeably lower quality picture with the K-7, compared to the K-x at the lowest ISO (I shoot RAW %100 of the time). Also, it's my understanding that pentax "gurus" released an update(s) to help the poor samsung in the K-7 better deal with some of these issues. Have the updates noticeably improved anything?


Last edited by outsider; 04-06-2011 at 10:54 AM.
04-06-2011, 10:59 AM   #2
Veteran Member
Coeurdechene's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: madrid
Photos: Albums
Posts: 833
QuoteOriginally posted by outsider Quote
I'd like to know really how bad the K-7 is at Noise control
look at the thread "K7 high iso success!" there you have pics taken at high isos where the noise problem was dealt with fairly good results.
...the thing with the K7 is that it had a sensor that wasn't new tech for it's time.


QuoteOriginally posted by outsider Quote
you'd have to kick me in the shin to get me to set it higher than 250
Then the K7 is a good choice

QuoteOriginally posted by outsider Quote
anything over ISO 640 on the K-x, for me, is just too noisy for my high standards.
any picture from the Kx treated in PP or with NR at those isos won't show signs of unbearable noise.

QuoteOriginally posted by outsider Quote
Is the samsung sensor in the K-7 so bad, that differences in noise is detectable at the lowest ISO?
In low ISO the k7 will perform better than the Kx..it's got a higher dinamic range..and at those iso's there is no noise, you won't perceive ANY noise at low iso.
At Iso 100 the K7 will outperform the Kx...you can look for comparatives.
04-06-2011, 11:03 AM   #3
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2011
Photos: Albums
Posts: 412
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Coeurdechene Quote
look at the thread "K7 high iso success!" there you have pics taken at high isos where the noise problem was dealt with fairly good results.
...the thing with the K7 is that it had a sensor that wasn't new tech for it's time.



Then the K7 is a good choice


any picture from the Kx treated in PP or with NR at those isos won't show signs of unbearable noise.


In low ISO the k7 will perform better than the Kx..it's got a higher dinamic range..and at those iso's there is no noise, you won't perceive ANY noise at low iso.
At Iso 100 the K7 will outperform the Kx...you can look for comparatives.
Great advice Man! Much appreciated!
04-06-2011, 11:22 AM   #4
Veteran Member
er1kksen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Staten Island, NY
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,663
QuoteOriginally posted by Coeurdechene Quote


In low ISO the k7 will perform better than the Kx..it's got a higher dinamic range..and at those iso's there is no noise, you won't perceive ANY noise at low iso.
At Iso 100 the K7 will outperform the Kx...you can look for comparatives.
Sorry, but I completely disagree, and so do all measured tests I've seen. The K-x has about the same highlight range at ISO 100, but it has vastly better range in the shadows. There IS noise present in ISO 100 files with both cameras, but it's hidden in the shadows. With the K-7 (and the K20D I used to have) you only have to dig a few stops down to find that noise and see the data start to fall apart. With the K-x you can pull gobs of data out of the shadows several stops down and even when it does start to look gritty past that it's not terrible. It's one of the primary notable differences between the Samsung sensors and the recent-generation Sony sensors.

This is based on having used both quite a bit. The only real reason I can think of to prefer the K-7 sensor is if you prefer the particular "look" it renders, which is a perfectly good reason, but highly subjective.

For some reason when the K-x became the high ISO champ the idea started going around that somehow it wasn't as good as others at low ISO, maybe because people wanted to sort of "balance the scales." Problem is, the idea had no basis in reality. The K-x is phenomenal at low ISOs, easily the best I've used (vs. 40D and K20D).

04-06-2011, 11:42 AM   #5
Veteran Member
Coeurdechene's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: madrid
Photos: Albums
Posts: 833
QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
Problem is, the idea had no basis in reality.
Was caught in the fantasy
Is the Pentax K-x "better" than the K7? from Adorama Learning Center
Fast googling...
Er1ksen you are right i stand corrected .

QuoteOriginally posted by Coeurdechene Quote
perceive
I did say perceive.
04-06-2011, 12:29 PM   #6
krp
Site Supporter
krp's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Illinois
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 470
QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
With the K-x you can pull gobs of data out of the shadows several stops down and even when it does start to look gritty past that it's not terrible.
I agree, here's an example:
I wanted to get a picture of this coyote but it didn't stick around long enough to get a proper picture.
Here's the original picture shot at iso 200: http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/9538/60586374.jpg
Same picture with exposure increased just over 3 stops: http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/2682/75416689.jpg
I'm mad I didn't start shooting in raw earlier.
04-06-2011, 12:42 PM   #7
Pentaxian
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 10,043
I've never done anything scientific, but I found the K7 to be more than acceptable up to about ISO 640.
I think though, that if you don't like noise, you should give up photography and hide in a dark, soundproof room.
It doesn't matter what camera you use, there will always be situations where you get some noise.
04-06-2011, 12:50 PM   #8
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2009
Photos: Albums
Posts: 158
QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
This is based on having used both quite a bit. The only real reason I can think of to prefer the K-7 sensor is if you prefer the particular "look" it renders, which is a perfectly good reason, but highly subjective.
Could you quantify these differences in look? Anyone? i'm still holding out from upgrading from K-7 to K-5 and one of the reasons would be the differences in this "look". Shot with a DSC-R1 for a couple years and for me that had a bit of a video cam look, besides having horrendous noise in long exposures. Am wondering if current generation of Sony sensors still have that vidcam feel to them.

04-06-2011, 01:38 PM   #9
Veteran Member
Coeurdechene's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: madrid
Photos: Albums
Posts: 833
Some noise can be beautifull...with B&W it can give some character...not as passioning as the different grain of the different films but it can be used to play and find looks you may like.

QuoteOriginally posted by conradj Quote
Am wondering if current generation of Sony sensors still have that vidcam feel to them.
K5,kx,kr have sony sensors..and they have no videocam feel...so no would be the answer.
04-06-2011, 01:49 PM   #10
Site Supporter
GeneV's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque NM
Photos: Albums
Posts: 9,761
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I've never done anything scientific, but I found the K7 to be more than acceptable up to about ISO 640.
I think though, that if you don't like noise, you should give up photography and hide in a dark, soundproof room.
It doesn't matter what camera you use, there will always be situations where you get some noise.
Bill, you have said what I was thinking--albeit a bit more sharply.
The OP seems to have some standards that are pretty hard to meet. I don't own a K7, but the similarly-equipped K20d is easily acceptable to me up to about ISO 800. Granted, a 14mp image at ISO 100 is gorgeous, but that does not mean other sensitivities aren't good.
04-06-2011, 02:36 PM   #11
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,556
Well I think that the K-7 beats K-x any time.
04-06-2011, 03:18 PM   #12
Site Supporter
GeneV's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque NM
Photos: Albums
Posts: 9,761
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well I think that the K-7 beats K-x any time.
At any ISO?
04-06-2011, 03:34 PM   #13
Pentaxian
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 10,043
QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Bill, you have said what I was thinking--albeit a bit more sharply.
I just can't seem to help myself. But I'm trying really hard to not get myself banned again.
04-06-2011, 04:20 PM   #14
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2011
Photos: Albums
Posts: 412
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I've never done anything scientific, but I found the K7 to be more than acceptable up to about ISO 640.
I think though, that if you don't like noise, you should give up photography and hide in a dark, soundproof room.
It doesn't matter what camera you use, there will always be situations where you get some noise.
Say it like it is Wheatfield.....that's why we like you
04-06-2011, 04:24 PM   #15
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2011
Photos: Albums
Posts: 412
Original Poster
Maybe someone can post or send me a RAW image of something closeup taken with the K-7, no noise reduction and with sharpness and contrast high, at ISO 100 or 200, I can compare the general feel between K-7 and K-x. Pixel peepers anonymous here...
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, control, dslr, iso, issues, k-7, k-x, noise, photography, quality, samsung, sensor, updates
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K20D - Bad Sensor (Banding?) JamesToyski Pentax DSLR Discussion 13 07-03-2012 02:57 PM
Are the sensor stains really that bad?? bobby_navy Pentax K-5 6 12-29-2010 04:19 PM
myth: video mode bad for K-x sensor? macky112 Video and Pentax HDSLRs 2 08-22-2010 05:44 PM
K10d bad sensor? gatekeeper Pentax DSLR Discussion 5 01-11-2009 04:54 PM
New K10D, bad spot on sensor?? tommy3 Pentax DSLR Discussion 4 02-21-2007 07:53 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:28 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top