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04-12-2011, 07:22 PM   #1
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"Underdone" look of pentax RAW images...

I was reading reviews of the pentax k-5 and came across this beautiful explanation of general pentax dslr rendering of pentax photos:

"To my eye, RAW files emerge from the camera as more neutral and perhaps a bit flat compared to other 35mm digital cameras. They’re like blank canvases, ready for processing (to which they respond very nicely). In this respect, the RAW files remind me of those from modern Hasselblad cameras: clean and neutral, ready for processing. By contrast, the Nikon RAW files I use regularly have an already-boosted look, with contrast and saturation amped from the beginning. Files can be easily made to look the same from either starting place, but it’s interesting to admire Pentax’s bias towards especially clean and true-looking RAW files."

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Last edited by outsider; 04-13-2011 at 02:11 PM.
04-12-2011, 07:45 PM   #2
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RAW files from my GF1, D700, and D300 all come out just as neutral as my K-5's files. That's just how RAW is.
04-12-2011, 07:54 PM - 1 Like   #3
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Huh? RAW is not an image format and the files have no "look" to them. Truly! The files are structured data that provides the means to assemble a bit map in computer memory (what can be displayed on your display or printed with your printer). What they "look" like is highly dependent on the program that interprets them.


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04-12-2011, 07:57 PM - 1 Like   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Huh? RAW is not an image format and the files have no "look" to them. Truly! The files are structured data that provides the means to assemble a bit map in computer memory (what can be displayed on your display or printed with your printer). What they "look" like is highly dependent on the program that interprets them.


Steve
O.K. thanks.

04-12-2011, 08:19 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
To add to what Steve said, many raw converters pay some attention to the camera settings for the default conversion settings.
You should have a nickname. How about RAW?
04-12-2011, 10:35 PM   #6
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ACR for one has hardly ever (for me) given me 0EV, 0 brightness, 0 contrast as the defaults for my RAW images. The only thing that remains as shot on my RAW converter is temperature and tint (white balance settings).
04-12-2011, 10:59 PM   #7
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Consider your source...for starters, the K-5 isn't a "35mm digital camera"...and if the reviewer is comparing a K-5 against a Full Frame digital, then besides being skewed, makes me more believe the reviewer is is more of a rookie and perhaps likes his raw files already boosted, which for me goes against everything of why I shoot in raw.

That being said, I dont see a discernible between my K-7 raw files and that of my K10D and LX3. I wouldn't get hung up on a reviewers shortcomings regarding this (or any other) camera.

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04-13-2011, 01:46 AM   #8
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the aspect depends a lot on the color. with my K-x, i push info button, then the first square on top left : you can choose between something like neutral, bright, portrait, landscape, etc ...
This will increase a bit the saturation of some colors, and maybe adapt the white balance (i guess).

it is maybe what your are looking for.

04-13-2011, 02:39 AM   #9
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As others have said, some raw converters use the in-camera jpeg settings, some don't. When I first got my K100D I was disappointed at how flat the raw files looked in Fastone. Then i saw how they looked in PPB/PPL and I realized what was going on.

Also, raw is not an acronym. No need to type all caps. (Just sayin').
04-13-2011, 09:22 AM   #10
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Just adding to what everyone says: what a RAW file looks like depends on what RAW converter/viewer you use to open the file.

However, of course, there is one caveat to that: most RAW files will contain a small embedded 'preview' JPEG within them that will often be displayed as a 'preview' representation of what the the RAW image may look like. Some image viewers will often display this instead of attempting to process the RAW file itself, as a quick way of displaying the image. And as a JPEG this preview image should pretty much look the same no matter which image viewer is looking at it.

On another note, I guess if one were to try and figure out what an 'official' rendering of a Pentax RAW file looks like, one should process the file with the RAW processing software Pentax supplies with the camera - Pentax Digital Camera Utility 4 in the case of the most recent Pentax DSLR's. Every other RAW processor -ACR, DXO, dcraw etc - is in a sense a 3rd party app that will produce different results from the 'official' PDCU software.
04-13-2011, 10:51 AM   #11
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Without meaning any disrespect -
this is kind of like saying a grill under cooks steaks.

The whole point of RAW is that one can more or less achieve any rendering.

However if one is trying out different RAW converters/processors -
shoot paired RAW+JPG and compare to the JPG.

As rawr points out probably the only processor/converter that can match the JPG is the Pentax DCU (supplied with every Pentax dSLR)
- it is almost certain different converters/processors will give different default renditions.

BUT a default rendition is supposed to be merely a starting point -
the point of using RAW is the fine control so that one can get precisely the rendition desired.

If all one is doing is using the default conversion -
that's not really using RAW to anywhere near its potential or purpose -
might as well just shoot JPG to begin with.
04-13-2011, 01:51 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
Without meaning any disrespect -
this is kind of like saying a grill under cooks steaks.

The whole point of RAW is that one can more or less achieve any rendering.

However if one is trying out different RAW converters/processors -
shoot paired RAW+JPG and compare to the JPG.

As rawr points out probably the only processor/converter that can match the JPG is the Pentax DCU (supplied with every Pentax dSLR)
- it is almost certain different converters/processors will give different default renditions.

BUT a default rendition is supposed to be merely a starting point -
the point of using RAW is the fine control so that one can get precisely the rendition desired.

If all one is doing is using the default conversion -
that's not really using RAW to anywhere near its potential or purpose -
might as well just shoot JPG to begin with.
Good points. I like the idea of different converters giving different renditions, will give me a reason to try several programs, however, the converter that comes with pentax is just a simple, watered down program with little features. It does make a nice browser if you're looking to browse very quickly through hundreds/thousands of images and quickly convert/edit them, however. I disagree with "using default conversion" statement. From my experience, there is no match to the quality of a converted raw file when compared to a jpeg shot straight from the camera. Not even close. This is one reason why I almost exclusively shoot raw. Even if i'm using default conversion, no adjustments, with any program, the converted jpeg is superior.
04-13-2011, 02:02 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by MPrince Quote
As others have said, some raw converters use the in-camera jpeg settings, some don't. When I first got my K100D I was disappointed at how flat the raw files looked in Fastone. Then i saw how they looked in PPB/PPL and I realized what was going on.

Also, raw is not an acronym. No need to type all caps. (Just sayin').
Is there a way to tell if the program is using the "in camera" settings to interpret the raw data? I would assume there is, since this is a fairly major thing.
04-13-2011, 02:10 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Just adding to what everyone says: what a RAW file looks like depends on what RAW converter/viewer you use to open the file.

However, of course, there is one caveat to that: most RAW files will contain a small embedded 'preview' JPEG within them that will often be displayed as a 'preview' representation of what the the RAW image may look like. Some image viewers will often display this instead of attempting to process the RAW file itself, as a quick way of displaying the image. And as a JPEG this preview image should pretty much look the same no matter which image viewer is looking at it.

On another note, I guess if one were to try and figure out what an 'official' rendering of a Pentax RAW file looks like, one should process the file with the RAW processing software Pentax supplies with the camera - Pentax Digital Camera Utility 4 in the case of the most recent Pentax DSLR's. Every other RAW processor -ACR, DXO, dcraw etc - is in a sense a 3rd party app that will produce different results from the 'official' PDCU software.
Good points. I use photoshop cs4 for most of my post processing. when you open a raw file in adobe cs4, it brings up a sort of "preview", with several adjustments (brightness, saturation, exposure, white balace, etc.) and with these adjustments, there are two buttons, one for "default" preview and one for "auto" preview. Maybe this is what we're talking about. The "default" preview being the most accurate translation of the raw data, and vice versa. Or maybe this is something different altogether. I guess I don't see why most popular converters don't just preview/interpret the data as it is to begin with.
04-13-2011, 02:36 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by outsider Quote
however. I disagree with "using default conversion" statement. From my experience, there is no match to the quality of a converted raw file when compared to a jpeg shot straight from the camera. Not even close. This is one reason why I almost exclusively shoot raw. Even if i'm using default conversion, no adjustments, with any program, the converted jpeg is superior.
OK....

Here's your challenge if you wish to accept it

This is a paired RAW+JPG from my K-x
that suffers from a pretty strong/disastrous magenta light problem
(red and blue LEDs only)

IMGP4490.DNG
and
IMGP4490.JPG

This ought to show convincingly that RAW is superior -

see if you can recover it to some semblance of normal -
and please explain why a RAW conversion (any processor you care to use) is superior to the JPG?

Last edited by UnknownVT; 02-05-2012 at 10:21 PM.
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