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10-30-2007, 03:05 PM   #1
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10d or 100d super?

I'm new to the board, as well as to the world of dslr, and I've been pointed in the direction of a few options, and right now I am ending up debating myself on my decision for a purchase, so I figured I'd see what Pentax users think (most other opinions I've recieved are from those using other hardware).

I have a limited budget, but I am willing to bend a little. No set number, just reasonable, 3 figures to the left of the decimal and I am a happy guy.

Uses-pretty much anything. I want to take some truly amazing pictures, and while I know I've seen some great subjects, the cameras were never quite up to the task (point and shoots, too slow or too old).

What I've had or have: 3 Canon digital cameras, the latest an S2 which was a gift to my wife before our triplets were born. It's her camera, I never "play" with it. She hates the slowness between pictures (screams dslr) yet I can't see her handling a dslr (no patience for anything technical-thats why I'm around).

What I'm looking for-something easy to pick up and learn, that will show marked improvement over the 5MP S2 and the 3MP and smaller Canons I've used. But I also don't want to go too lower-end, and want a new body in 6 months, either.

so, I like the price of the k100d super with the kit lens (including the rebate, how could I not)
but I am wondering, is 1MP more over the S2 really a good enough jump? I'm trying not to worry about the pixel count as much, but I am wondering if the jump to 10 would be wiser for a number of reasons (ie, not needing a new body for several more years, etc).

Also, one thing I was wondering-my family vacations every few years in Myrtle Beach (very humid) and every time we go, it seems that it takes a while for the fog in the camera to go away (my guess is its tied to being in a really cool room, then going to the beach and being warm, forming condensation etc). but it means that pictures are a crapshoot, and while its a recent example, we will be doing similar environments for future vacations, and I am wondering 2 things ....1-would the 10d and its seals avoid this? 2-wouldnt the lens still have the issue, regardless of 100d or 10d? (and if so...whats the best way to avoid it or eliminate it)

Anyways, just debating if its worth the extra cash to get the 10d, and if it will be stll as easy to use as the 100d super appears to be. I have held the super and loved it, so I am definetly in for one of the two models, I think. It's just a question of, am I getting the 100d and 2 lenses, or the 10d and possibly only 1.

thanks

10-30-2007, 03:18 PM   #2
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Welcome to the forum. Good people here.

The K100D is definitely "easier" to learn and use than the K10D. But, the K10D has a lot more capabilities and you will not "outgrow" it anytime soon. Well, maybe not "capabilities", but more control over your exposures.

For your vacations, the K10D sure sounds like the better choice, being weather sealed as it is. Condensation will still be an issue. The thing is weather sealed, it's not a vacuum.

Be aware that the K10D is a physically larger and heavier camera of the two. Not much, but a noticeable difference. On the pixel count, as with most things, it is a mixed bag. The K100D has a higher ISO, which is important for flashless, dim light photo ops. The extra pixels of the K10D will come handy when cropping an image increase its attractiveness. In either case, you will get much better images out of any dSLR than a p&s. The snapshot cameras have a small sensor, which limits useful ISO ranges.

Me personally? I have a K10D and a K100D (non-super). I use the K10D and rarely use the K100D. In fact, the only time I use the K100D is as a second body when on a shoot and I need two lenses readily available, (i.e., high school sports; the K10D with the long zoom, the K100D with the short zoom).

Sorry my thoughts are so jumbled. I just wrote down my thoughts as they moved to the front of my brain and out through my fingers on the keyboard.
10-30-2007, 03:25 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmdeegan Quote
I'm new to the board, as well as to the world of dslr, and I've been pointed in the direction of a few options, and right now I am ending up debating myself on my decision for a purchase, so I figured I'd see what Pentax users think (most other opinions I've recieved are from those using other hardware).

I have a limited budget, but I am willing to bend a little. No set number, just reasonable, 3 figures to the left of the decimal and I am a happy guy.

Uses-pretty much anything. I want to take some truly amazing pictures, and while I know I've seen some great subjects, the cameras were never quite up to the task (point and shoots, too slow or too old).

What I've had or have: 3 Canon digital cameras, the latest an S2 which was a gift to my wife before our triplets were born. It's her camera, I never "play" with it. She hates the slowness between pictures (screams dslr) yet I can't see her handling a dslr (no patience for anything technical-thats why I'm around).

What I'm looking for-something easy to pick up and learn, that will show marked improvement over the 5MP S2 and the 3MP and smaller Canons I've used. But I also don't want to go too lower-end, and want a new body in 6 months, either.

so, I like the price of the k100d super with the kit lens (including the rebate, how could I not)
but I am wondering, is 1MP more over the S2 really a good enough jump? I'm trying not to worry about the pixel count as much, but I am wondering if the jump to 10 would be wiser for a number of reasons (ie, not needing a new body for several more years, etc).

Also, one thing I was wondering-my family vacations every few years in Myrtle Beach (very humid) and every time we go, it seems that it takes a while for the fog in the camera to go away (my guess is its tied to being in a really cool room, then going to the beach and being warm, forming condensation etc). but it means that pictures are a crapshoot, and while its a recent example, we will be doing similar environments for future vacations, and I am wondering 2 things ....1-would the 10d and its seals avoid this? 2-wouldnt the lens still have the issue, regardless of 100d or 10d? (and if so...whats the best way to avoid it or eliminate it)

Anyways, just debating if its worth the extra cash to get the 10d, and if it will be stll as easy to use as the 100d super appears to be. I have held the super and loved it, so I am definetly in for one of the two models, I think. It's just a question of, am I getting the 100d and 2 lenses, or the 10d and possibly only 1.

thanks
Wellcome to the forum.

I would advice you to buy the K100d super + the Pentax/Tamron 18-250. I think that way you can be set for a while but it depends on what you like to shoot. Remember, you can have the best body but you need the right lens for your needs. The Pentax/Tamron is not a specialized lens but if your interests are wide (portrait, landscape...), that lens is flexible enough to use it while you decide what you really want to do.
10-30-2007, 03:41 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmdeegan Quote
No set number, just reasonable, 3 figures to the left of the decimal and I am a happy guy.
This is all completely impossible to answer based just on your post. Ask more than one person this, and you'll get at least two different opinions.

Here's mine... if you're comfortable with technology, aren't averse to reading manuals and other resources in order to get the best out of it, and are prepared to work at your technique, get the K10D. It has better shake reduction, much more flexibility and customisability, and of course the 29% more pixels in each direction (so you can afford to crop more aggressively, even if you don't want enormous prints).

The 'one lens or two' concern isn't relevant. If you like the camera, you will end up wanting more lenses. And one decent lens is more than the difference in the body prices. So it's not a question of 'if' - it's when.

If you're worried about 'easy to use', set it to default everything, Program mode and Auto focus, and it'll be perfectly fine most of the time - and you can grow into its subtleties as you learn.

The K100D super is a very good camera, and has a number of advantages if they're relevant to you:

- smaller (although the '10 isn't all that big)
- lighter (although the '10 isn't all that heavy)
- cheaper
- has scene modes (who wants them)
- takes AA batteries, rather than a Li ion unit (but the battery for the '10 lasts a long time)
- ISO goes up to 3200 (but the '10 goes down to 100)
- metering is more reliable with very old manual Pentax fit lenses (but you probably won't need any).

... but nevertheless, I am very glad, knowing what I do now, that I went for the K10D and not the K100D

Of course, rumour has it that Pentax will be bringing out a more advanced body early in 2008. Personally I don't think it affects the argument, since if you don't need or can't afford the new body, get the K10D now. And if you do and can, then I suspect the K100D will be too big a step down as a backup once you have the new one.

I say, get the K10D.

Oh, and an airtight bag with some silica gel packets in it for the camera to warm up in.

10-30-2007, 04:43 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmdeegan Quote
Is 1MP more over the S2 really a good enough jump?
Picking a camera on the basis of how many pixels the sensor has, is like picking a car based on how big the engine is. A Formula 1 car is worth millions, a domestic car with the same size engine might cost $20,000. The difference is the whole 'system' not one 'spec'. 6MP is plenty.
What I would do, is buy one lens, a prime (like a DA40 or FA50 1.7 (or 1.4)) and the cheapest DSLR body you can find in good shape in this site's Marketplace. Learn the single focal length and the camera thoroughly before spending anymore dough. On the basis of what you learn by practicing and what 'style' of photography you find you prefer, will help you determine what to buy next... Buying a zoom as a first lens is not the best way to learn. Buy a hi-quality prime lens first, that you will be able to use on a future camera without compromise as you learn more. My $0.02...
10-30-2007, 06:05 PM   #6
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A weather-sealed body is only as dry as your lens. Most consumer-level lenses are not weather-sealed. The dust-reduction feature is not going to eliminate the need for a good rocket blower. 6MP is plenty, especially if you crop correctly in the camera, or have a long enough lens. The SDM lenses are more costly. o, no particular advantage of the Super over the regular K100D.

The K10D has more flexibility than the K100D, but the K100 has better low-light performance (K10D owners tend to agree) due to having less MP..."VPN" or "vertical pattern noise" was a big topic of discussion, whether real or not...

These days, there are many zooms with good image quality. I find the flexibility of focal length is handy. I would rather have the flexibility in framing and viewpoint than any minute IQ improvement that primes might have. If you are looking at images on screen, or printing 8 x 10 or less, the difference wuth 10MP or primes is at a minimum.

I can't tell any difference in gallery images between Canon, Nikon. Oly, Pentax or whatever, or any particular lens (other than obvious focal length). I've never seen an image that made me say I have to have that equipment (except for a fisheye).

Get what makes you smile.

Oh, but if you want to shoot long bursts, then get the K10D, becaue the K100D has a small buffer.
10-30-2007, 07:31 PM   #7
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i have recently bought the K100D and its a good camera

wish it could take more than just 5 continious shots but that doens't matter too much

there doesn't seem to be many wheels and buttons on it, and i thought that that would piss me off

but after actually using it for the first time, the shutter speed, and apeture can be easily set quickly using the e-dial

but you do have to dig into the menu for RAW on/off and ISO settings

but that doesn't take terribly long, I dont think its worth the extra money for a K10D. there just isn't that many essential extra features on it

as stated above, what really makes or breaks your shots is a lens. save your money and buy one zoom lens, and a few good prime lenses to fit your purposes

in my case, i have a 18-200mm and going to go by a 50mm or a 77mm for portraits

hope that helps
10-30-2007, 08:13 PM   #8
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Price

I just bought a K100D and it is truley all the camera I can handle right now. I am new at digital and have just been a small player in the photography world.

I love my K100D.. I can't imagine have the K10D to learn.. OMG.. my poor brain would not forgive me!!!

lol.. all in the all though... Price was my deciding factor. It took my months just to save up for the K100... If I could afford it.. I would of went with the K10... But I do not regret my choice at all with the super....

Either way you win.. both are very good cameras.. it just depends on your photography experience and how deep your pockets are...

my two cents.. Kim

10-30-2007, 09:03 PM   #9
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While I own the k10d, I find myself siding with Kim. It's really your own choice. Have you handled them both? You need to see which "feels better" to you. And if budge is a concern, then the 100d Super would be a nice fit. Like Kim said, either way you're going to end up with a fine camera.
10-31-2007, 03:53 AM   #10
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My 2 cents;

Asking 500 people, you will end up with 500 opinions.

Do not stare at megapixels to much.
I own a K10D, before that my prime camera was a Panasonic FZ5 superzoom with 5mp.
The 5mp has been good enough for years and I don't believe you will notice the 6mp / 10mp difference that often.

The K10D sure is bigger and heavier.
My wife likes smaller cameras, women have smaller hands (in general ) I almost bought the K100D Super instead just for its smaller and lighter body.

The K10D is not hard to learn at all, there are "green" settings for everything. Don't be fooled.
Out of the box it makes great pictures, just change one default: neutral to vivid colours, and you are set.
Over time you can grow into the extras, then the K10D has more to offer.

We are travelling a lot and I like the dust / weather resistance of the K10D better.
I have the Tamron 18-250mm zoom which is a very pleasant and versatile lens to take with you when travelling around.
Perhaps you want to buy a the 50mm f1.4 lens as well. You will be able to shoot your twins in real low light without flash and it is not expensive.

If you understand the relationships between shutter speed, iso value, apperture etc. The K10D has some very nice extras, unique in the market and fun to play with. You won't be disappointed.

- Bert
10-31-2007, 07:07 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by bymy141 Quote
just change one default: neutral to vivid colours, and you are set.

- Bert
Bert, could you clarify what you mean by the above and how to go about doing it? Thanks.
10-31-2007, 07:54 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmdeegan Quote
Also, one thing I was wondering-my family vacations every few years in Myrtle Beach (very humid) and every time we go, it seems that it takes a while for the fog in the camera to go away (my guess is its tied to being in a really cool room, then going to the beach and being warm, forming condensation etc). but it means that pictures are a crapshoot, and while its a recent example, we will be doing similar environments for future vacations, and I am wondering 2 things ....1-would the 10d and its seals avoid this? 2-wouldnt the lens still have the issue, regardless of 100d or 10d? (and if so...whats the best way to avoid it or eliminate it)

There's no quick way around the condensation problem. Just be aware that it's going to happen anytime you're going from a cool environment into a warm, moist one. To protect your gear, place it inside an air-tight plastic bag (as someone else mentioned earlier) before taking it into the warmer atmosphere. That way, the condensation wil form on the outside of the plastic bag, not on your camera and lens. You'll still need to wait a bit for the condensation to clear before it'll be safe to take your camera out of the bag, but at least your equipment will be protected. I use the gallon-size Ziplock freezer bags, btw.
10-31-2007, 08:24 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmdeegan Quote
I have a limited budget, but I am willing to bend a little. No set number, just reasonable, 3 figures to the left of the decimal and I am a happy guy.
Leans to k100d super

QuoteQuote:
Uses-pretty much anything. I want to take some truly amazing pictures, and while I know I've seen some great subjects, the cameras were never quite up to the task (point and shoots, too slow or too old).
Either will do

QuoteQuote:
She hates the slowness between pictures [of the S2] (screams dslr) yet I can't see her handling a dslr (no patience for anything technical-thats why I'm around).
The K100d Super's scene modes make this much easier for her to use. Also, smaller, lighter camera's tend to be used more.

QuoteQuote:
What I'm looking for-something easy to pick up and learn, that will show marked improvement over the 5MP S2 and the 3MP and smaller Canons I've used. But I also don't want to go too lower-end, and want a new body in 6 months, either.
Unless you have a film slr background or have taken classes in photography, the K100d will be easier to learn. It has lots of user friendly functions. The K10d eliminates many of these "photography helpers."

QuoteQuote:
Also, one thing I was wondering-my family vacations every few years in Myrtle Beach (very humid) and every time we go, it seems that it takes a while for the fog in the camera to go away (my guess is its tied to being in a really cool room, then going to the beach and being warm, forming condensation etc). but it means that pictures are a crapshoot, and while its a recent example, we will be doing similar environments for future vacations, and I am wondering 2 things ....1-would the 10d and its seals avoid this? 2-wouldnt the lens still have the issue, regardless of 100d or 10d? (and if so...whats the best way to avoid it or eliminate it)
The weather sealing wont be much help because you will still get condensation on the lenses. With the sealed DA* lens you'll still get condensation on the outside of the lens and the viewfinder. A simple strategy is to leave the camera where it will not get too cool, or place it in a plastic ziplock bag before going out in the heat. Condensation will not form on it once the camera warms

FWIW, based on your stated needs it appears that the K100d super is the better choice for you.
10-31-2007, 08:39 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rogerstg Quote
Unless you have a film slr background or have taken classes in photography, the K100d will be easier to learn. It has lots of user friendly functions. The K10d eliminates many of these "photography helpers."
This depends on your learning style. The K10D is more intimidating because of all those buttons, but the functions they make available are then right there, rather than something you get to through the menu. This makes it easier to experiment and may make it easier to learn more quickly.
10-31-2007, 08:43 AM   #15
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Which is actually one of the reasons we opted for the k10d as opposed to the Super. I did not want to go through the menu, for instance, to shoot a RAW image from time to time. Having that RAW + button on the side makes things a lot more convenient. Just a thought.
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