Leaping from K-x to K-5 rather than a K-7 – ramblings of a new owner…

HenrikDK · 05-03-2011, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by Michaelina2

Beware... The 40 Ltd was my 'slippery slope.' It is so good (vs. 18-55 and 55-200) that it seduced me into desiring ALL of the "Ltd" primes, DA and FA. A ton of will power was needed to stop me before I became totally consumed. It was hard on the ol' pocket book, but at least the hits came pre-Hoya.

If you feel the 40 is too long, get the 35, or 21, or 15. It does not matter which, you'll love it. Also, you will not really miss the others, since it won't be long before you acquire them, too...

Enjoy... M

You guys are SO bad.... Trust my, I am already feeling the suction for those small little devils .....

I really really really don't need those lense right - or at least not right now. Check back in year, and I will probably have been sucked in...

Mr. I don't know what I am doing buying a K-5

jimr-pdx · 05-03-2011, 07:47 PM

I'm an experienced SLR/dSLR user who went from K-7 to k-x and I'm quite happy with my choice. We each tread the path that we attempt to control, and I'm glad the K-5 was the right way for you to go. Enjoy the new tool, and glad the what-to-do monkey is off your back.. for bodies at least!

Laurentiu Cristofor · 05-03-2011, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Winder

I think you are missing my point. I'm NOT saying equipment does not matter.

Yes, I did miss it. I was responding to Henryk. Why did you quote my post in your response then?

Laurentiu Cristofor · 05-03-2011, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by HenrikDK

You guys are KILLING me

I was trying to be funny about this and I am being dragged down into this philosphical discussion about glass and tools and whether my camera is enabling me or not. LIGHTEN UP. LIFE IS TOO SHORT!!!

Hey, that's exactly why you should spend more time with philosophy. Why is life short? Is it really short? What should we do with it? What could you do if you had more? Because once you get useful answers, you can put them in your art and strike chords with souls everywhere. Better than a camera, better than a lens, what you need is a new frame of mind!

**Rondec** · 05-04-2011, 03:12 AM

Congratulations on the new camera! You really don't have to rationalize or, even explain it to us. I am sure that over time, you will get some higher end glass as well. I think most folks under estimate how much getting new gear really does inspire you to go out and shoot photos, even it is just of your cat. That certainly can make you better over time.

Tonto · 05-04-2011, 03:37 AM

I love posts like this, peoples journeys with their gear. I was a bit different and started with a K7, later I got a Kx for the wife as she used mine too much, now got a spare body which I can use in low light too.

This was all before the K5 came out though but I'm happy (still envious though, green with----->

)

HenrikDK · 05-04-2011, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

Hey, that's exactly why you should spend more time with philosophy. Why is life short? Is it really short? What should we do with it? What could you do if you had more? Because once you get useful answers, you can put them in your art and strike chords with souls everywhere. Better than a camera, better than a lens, what you need is a new frame of mind!

You are right. Though I think life is exactly as long has it is supposed to be - which feels awfully short

And I got my new frame of mind - little smaller than it used to be many years ago, but it does seem to take darn good pictures.

All in good spirts

Snydly · 05-05-2011, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by kiwi_jono

Oh groan - this is not helping me!
I would get a K-5 if I could get financial sign off from my financial controller. My purse strings have tightened post earthquake - which I have to admit is fair enough considering economic conditions, house repairs etc.
Also I feel the DA 70 F2.4 Ltd calling my name but that will have to wait.

Still.... it looks a lovely camera. Maybe late in the year.

Thanks for the post - not

Am I to understand you were directly affected by the earthquake in Japan? Happy to hear you and your family are ok. How bad are things there now? If I am misunderstanding your quote, my apologies...

Bill

Designosophy · 05-06-2011, 01:30 PM

One of the considerations that this discussion of better lenses vs. better camera is missing is the dynamic range of the K-5. In a very high-contrast situation, without the dynamic range of the K-5, the only way to capture it is to bracket multiple shots and combine them in pp. That's not always an option - often there is movement that makes bracketing unworkable. It doesn't matter what lens you have. Sometimes, if your camera's sensor can't capture all of the information in one shot, then you've missed the shot, or, at best, you've compromised it. With the K-5, you can expose for the highlights and boost the shadows in PP while maintaining IQ to a great degree. So, if you are faced with situations like this frequently, then better glass is simply not a solution.

Furthermore, sometimes no glass is good enough to get the shot in low light. I enjoy taking photos indoors in low light. I used to have a K-x; now I have a K-7. Even with an f1.4 lens, I sometimes can't get enough light to the K-7 sensor to get the shot, whereas I could with the K-x. The K-7 has helped me get better manual focus shots because of its viewfinder. For this and other reasons, I don't regret upgrading. But it simply does not do better than the K-x in some low-light situations; it doesn't matter what lens I have on it. And the K-5 is better than the K-x.

Yes, better glass is often more advisable than the latest camera body. But it isn't always. It depends on what you want to accomplish.

Quicksand · 05-06-2011, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Snydly

Am I to understand you were directly affected by the earthquake in Japan? Happy to hear you and your family are ok. How bad are things there now? If I am misunderstanding your quote, my apologies...

Bill

I imagine the reference is to the Christchurch, NZ earthquake in February, which did a lot of damage and took nearly 200 lives.

Edgar_in_Indy · 05-10-2011, 05:51 AM

Funny how a post about somebody who is ecstatic about upgrading to a K-5 could take a controversial turn. While I agree that lenses would have been a better investment, I just don't think he's quite to that point on his DSLR journey. For now it sounds like he's still learning to get the most out of his current lenses, which is an important part of the learning process.

When I bought my first DSLR, an Olympus e-510, I never even thought about getting new lenses for the first year or so since I was just so amazed by the pictures I was getting using the two kit lenses. It was only later when my photography improved and I upgraded to the K-x that I started to realize the limitations of the kit lenses. I now have several lenses, but I mostly use the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 and Sigma 50-150mm f/2.8.

I think it's much simpler to choose a camera than it is a lens. While there are only a limited number of camera bodies to choose from, there are dozens and dozens of good lenses. And while it's fairly easy to quantify which camera is superior, lenses are much more personal and nuanced decision. Until you figure out exactly what your needs and habits are, you can't make a completely informed decision about lenses.

I will also be upgrading to the K-5 from the K-x, but I'll wait another year or so until the price comes down. Whenever possible I try to avoid buying things when they are still depreciating significantly.

My main reason for upgrading will be the superior autofocus system, and the slightly improved image quality will be a bonus. Since the OP mentioned that he takes pictures of his son's soccer games, then I'm sure he will enjoy the advantages of the K-5 autofocus system over his old K-x. It's not going to matter how good your lens is if your autofocus system can't keep up with your subject.

Unlike the original poster, though, I don't have any problem with the manual controls on the K-x. I shoot fully manual 95% of the time, and I like how I can adjust both aperture and shutter speed with just one hand and a single dial. I would personally find dual dials less convenient.

**NaClH2O** · 05-10-2011, 07:16 AM

First of all, welcome to the Forums Henrik! Hopefully your subsequent posts will be met with a bit more ...er...understanding!
Secondly, congratulations on your new K-5, I'm glad you like your new camera, and (more importlantly) are excited about taking pictures with it. And I completely agree with you on your purchase philosophy. Well done!!!

All this brouhaha about "investment" reminds me of a conversation I had with my investment banker brother. When he found out that I spend about $5-$10 a week on lottery tickets, I got a long lecture on how lottery tickets were a bad investment. He missed the point of the lottery tickets completely of course. My response to him was "Bro, buying lottery tickets as an investment is kinda like watching an adult cinematic feature for the dialogue". He still didn't get it. Henrik gets it.
Now that the photography bug has gotten you again Henrik, and when you are ready to get another lens or 6, I can highly recommend the FA ltds. For an idea of what these beautiful little jewels can do check out the FA limited club. click here for lens lust
And for a well known professional photographer's take on them:
mikey likes it too

One final note. In Henrik's original post he mentioned the difficulity of manual focusing. Many swear by using a different focus screen, Katzeye and others make the old fashioned split circle focus screens. They work great for the most part but have two problems, firstly they tend to screw up spot metering, and secondly, flash metering is badly affected too. I almost always uninstall my Katz eye screen on my K20D if I'm planning on using my shoe mount flash alot.
However all is not lost. Godfrey, a poster over at DPR has written up a great set of manual focus exercises that work great. Like a lot of exercises they are boring, but I can vouch for their effectiveness. Practicing scales on a musical instrument is boring too, but I can't think of a better way go get familiar with your instrument. Same with these exercises.
boring but effective

In conclusion, congratulations on your new K-5 Henrik, I'll be there as soon as I can afford it. And I'm very glad that it has re-awakened your enthusiasm for photography.

NaCl(but watch out for LBA!)H2O

jstevewhite · 05-10-2011, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by JHD

The K-5 is a great camera, and I thought about buying one but I have a K-x and a K-7, with a number of fine lenses - an investment of several thousands of dollars – yet I’ll be buying more lenses instead of a K-5. The fact is glass is an investment whereas a body is not. But even more importantly, every time I mount a lens on any camera, I quickly see the difference. This isn’t the case with a new body. No matter how high the dynamic range or ISO, a sensor is not a substitute for glass.

Back in the days of film I would have given exactly the same advice. I think it's a little fuzzier with digital, since the "film" is BUILT IN. "Good glass" is *not* hard to come by. One doesn't have to buy LTDs to take sharp, contrasty, colorful pictures.

I think the K-5 is a new breed. It's approaching "good enough". I don't mean "good enough for a standard 8x10 snapshot of a well lit subject." I mean potentially good enough to use until the shutter wears out. It's good enough, IMO, that buying a K-7 is *wasting money*, because you'll want to upgrade to a K-5 soon anyway.

If I were starting over, I'd take a K-5 and a good 50mm over a K-7 and a 43ltd ANY DAY, and I'd recommend the same to anyone who asked. The camera will make far more difference in the images than the difference between those two lenses will. After you've gotten that far, any more lenses are a wash.

Your argument certainly has merit; I'm merely pointing out that it's not the *only* rational way to look at it.

**Ash** · 05-10-2011, 05:46 PM

That's the view I've been led to believe too jstevewhite. The K-5 is the first SLR I have thought to myself that I do not need to upgrade. The ISO performance is adequate for just about any situation, and the AF does the job in quite bad lighting most of the time. Then again, I don't expect it to be perfect, which it isn't.

However the K-5's predecessors had at least one main niggle that made upgrading a formality. And when the next generation of pentax dSLR comes on line, there will be yet another reason to upgrade, but I have my doubts as to whether this is the kind of upgrade from something like a K-5 that will be absolutely necessary to have for work (it will likely be a 'nice to have' upgrade instead). That's just my point of view on it.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 05-10-2011, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by jstevewhite

I mean potentially good enough to use until the shutter wears out.

I actually came to this same conclusion for even older cameras. The K10D is still good enough for most of what I shoot and I'll keep using it until I won't be able to anymore. I argue that getting a higher end body is more important than getting a higher end lens. But I argue this because I value the build (durability and handling), controls (ease of use), and extra features (flexibility, not because of sensor performance.

05-04-2011, 03:37 AM	#36
Tonto Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Wellington Posts: 969	I love posts like this, peoples journeys with their gear. I was a bit different and started with a K7, later I got a Kx for the wife as she used mine too much, now got a spare body which I can use in low light too. This was all before the K5 came out though but I'm happy (still envious though, green with----->)

05-10-2011, 05:51 AM	#41
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	Funny how a post about somebody who is ecstatic about upgrading to a K-5 could take a controversial turn. While I agree that lenses would have been a better investment, I just don't think he's quite to that point on his DSLR journey. For now it sounds like he's still learning to get the most out of his current lenses, which is an important part of the learning process. When I bought my first DSLR, an Olympus e-510, I never even thought about getting new lenses for the first year or so since I was just so amazed by the pictures I was getting using the two kit lenses. It was only later when my photography improved and I upgraded to the K-x that I started to realize the limitations of the kit lenses. I now have several lenses, but I mostly use the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 and Sigma 50-150mm f/2.8. I think it's much simpler to choose a camera than it is a lens. While there are only a limited number of camera bodies to choose from, there are dozens and dozens of good lenses. And while it's fairly easy to quantify which camera is superior, lenses are much more personal and nuanced decision. Until you figure out exactly what your needs and habits are, you can't make a completely informed decision about lenses. I will also be upgrading to the K-5 from the K-x, but I'll wait another year or so until the price comes down. Whenever possible I try to avoid buying things when they are still depreciating significantly. My main reason for upgrading will be the superior autofocus system, and the slightly improved image quality will be a bonus. Since the OP mentioned that he takes pictures of his son's soccer games, then I'm sure he will enjoy the advantages of the K-5 autofocus system over his old K-x. It's not going to matter how good your lens is if your autofocus system can't keep up with your subject. Unlike the original poster, though, I don't have any problem with the manual controls on the K-x. I shoot fully manual 95% of the time, and I like how I can adjust both aperture and shutter speed with just one hand and a single dial. I would personally find dual dials less convenient. Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 05-10-2011 at 06:35 AM.

05-10-2011, 07:16 AM	#42
NaClH2O Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bronx NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,631	Henrik's experience is NOT about investment First of all, welcome to the Forums Henrik! Hopefully your subsequent posts will be met with a bit more ...er...understanding! Secondly, congratulations on your new K-5, I'm glad you like your new camera, and (more importlantly) are excited about taking pictures with it. And I completely agree with you on your purchase philosophy. *Well done!!!* All this brouhaha about "investment" reminds me of a conversation I had with my investment banker brother. When he found out that I spend about $5-$10 a week on lottery tickets, I got a long lecture on how lottery tickets were a bad investment. He missed the point of the lottery tickets completely of course. My response to him was "Bro, buying lottery tickets as an investment is kinda like watching an adult cinematic feature for the dialogue". He still didn't get it. Henrik gets it. Now that the photography bug has gotten you again Henrik, and when you are ready to get another lens or 6, I can highly recommend the FA ltds. For an idea of what these beautiful little jewels can do check out the FA limited club. click here for lens lust And for a well known professional photographer's take on them: mikey likes it too One final note. In Henrik's original post he mentioned the difficulity of manual focusing. Many swear by using a different focus screen, Katzeye and others make the old fashioned split circle focus screens. They work great for the most part but have two problems, firstly they tend to screw up spot metering, and secondly, flash metering is badly affected too. I almost always uninstall my Katz eye screen on my K20D if I'm planning on using my shoe mount flash alot. However all is not lost. Godfrey, a poster over at DPR has written up a great set of manual focus exercises that work great. Like a lot of exercises they are boring, but I can vouch for their effectiveness. Practicing scales on a musical instrument is boring too, but I can't think of a better way go get familiar with your instrument. Same with these exercises. boring but effective In conclusion, congratulations on your new K-5 Henrik, I'll be there as soon as I can afford it. And I'm very glad that it has re-awakened your enthusiasm for photography. NaCl(but watch out for LBA!)H2O

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05-03-2011, 07:13 PM	#31
HenrikDK Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 386 Original Poster	Originally posted by Michaelina2 Beware... The 40 Ltd was my 'slippery slope.' It is so good (vs. 18-55 and 55-200) that it seduced me into desiring ALL of the "Ltd" primes, DA and FA. A ton of will power was needed to stop me before I became totally consumed. It was hard on the ol' pocket book, but at least the hits came pre-Hoya. If you feel the 40 is too long, get the 35, or 21, or 15. It does not matter which, you'll love it. Also, you will not really miss the others, since it won't be long before you acquire them, too... Enjoy... M You guys are SO bad.... Trust my, I am already feeling the suction for those small little devils ..... I really really really don't need those lense right - or at least not right now. Check back in year, and I will probably have been sucked in... Mr. I don't know what I am doing buying a K-5

05-03-2011, 07:47 PM	#32
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	I'm an experienced SLR/dSLR user who went from K-7 to k-x and I'm quite happy with my choice. We each tread the path that we attempt to control, and I'm glad the K-5 was the right way for you to go. Enjoy the new tool, and glad the what-to-do monkey is off your back.. for bodies at least!

05-03-2011, 10:38 PM	#33
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by Winder I think you are missing my point. I'm NOT saying equipment does not matter. Yes, I did miss it. I was responding to Henryk. Why did you quote my post in your response then?

05-03-2011, 10:44 PM	#34
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by HenrikDK You guys are KILLING me I was trying to be funny about this and I am being dragged down into this philosphical discussion about glass and tools and whether my camera is enabling me or not. LIGHTEN UP. LIFE IS TOO SHORT!!! Hey, that's exactly why you should spend more time with philosophy. Why is life short? Is it really short? What should we do with it? What could you do if you had more? Because once you get useful answers, you can put them in your art and strike chords with souls everywhere. Better than a camera, better than a lens, what you need is a new frame of mind!

05-04-2011, 03:12 AM	#35
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Congratulations on the new camera! You really don't have to rationalize or, even explain it to us. I am sure that over time, you will get some higher end glass as well. I think most folks under estimate how much getting new gear really does inspire you to go out and shoot photos, even it is just of your cat. That certainly can make you better over time.

05-04-2011, 05:24 AM	#37
HenrikDK Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 386 Original Poster	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Hey, that's exactly why you should spend more time with philosophy. Why is life short? Is it really short? What should we do with it? What could you do if you had more? Because once you get useful answers, you can put them in your art and strike chords with souls everywhere. Better than a camera, better than a lens, what you need is a new frame of mind! You are right. Though I think life is exactly as long has it is supposed to be - which feels awfully short And I got my new frame of mind - little smaller than it used to be many years ago, but it does seem to take darn good pictures. All in good spirts

05-05-2011, 07:30 PM	#38
Snydly Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Florida Photos: Albums Posts: 242	Originally posted by kiwi_jono Oh groan - this is not helping me! I would get a K-5 if I could get financial sign off from my financial controller. My purse strings have tightened post earthquake - which I have to admit is fair enough considering economic conditions, house repairs etc. Also I feel the DA 70 F2.4 Ltd calling my name but that will have to wait. Still.... it looks a lovely camera. Maybe late in the year. Thanks for the post - not Am I to understand you were directly affected by the earthquake in Japan? Happy to hear you and your family are ok. How bad are things there now? If I am misunderstanding your quote, my apologies... Bill

05-06-2011, 01:30 PM	#39
Designosophy Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Northeast Philadelphia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,137	One of the considerations that this discussion of better lenses vs. better camera is missing is the dynamic range of the K-5. In a very high-contrast situation, without the dynamic range of the K-5, the only way to capture it is to bracket multiple shots and combine them in pp. That's not always an option - often there is movement that makes bracketing unworkable. It doesn't matter what lens you have. Sometimes, if your camera's sensor can't capture all of the information in one shot, then you've missed the shot, or, at best, you've compromised it. With the K-5, you can expose for the highlights and boost the shadows in PP while maintaining IQ to a great degree. So, if you are faced with situations like this frequently, then better glass is simply not a solution. Furthermore, sometimes no glass is good enough to get the shot in low light. I enjoy taking photos indoors in low light. I used to have a K-x; now I have a K-7. Even with an f1.4 lens, I sometimes can't get enough light to the K-7 sensor to get the shot, whereas I could with the K-x. The K-7 has helped me get better manual focus shots because of its viewfinder. For this and other reasons, I don't regret upgrading. But it simply does not do better than the K-x in some low-light situations; it doesn't matter what lens I have on it. And the K-5 is better than the K-x. Yes, better glass is often more advisable than the latest camera body. But it isn't always. It depends on what you want to accomplish.

05-06-2011, 02:12 PM	#40
Quicksand Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area) Posts: 1,519	Originally posted by Snydly Am I to understand you were directly affected by the earthquake in Japan? Happy to hear you and your family are ok. How bad are things there now? If I am misunderstanding your quote, my apologies... Bill I imagine the reference is to the Christchurch, NZ earthquake in February, which did a lot of damage and took nearly 200 lives.

05-10-2011, 05:08 PM	#43
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by JHD The K-5 is a great camera, and I thought about buying one but I have a K-x and a K-7, with a number of fine lenses - an investment of several thousands of dollars – yet I’ll be buying more lenses instead of a K-5. The fact is glass is an investment whereas a body is not. But even more importantly, every time I mount a lens on any camera, I quickly see the difference. This isn’t the case with a new body. No matter how high the dynamic range or ISO, a sensor is not a substitute for glass. Back in the days of film I would have given exactly the same advice. I think it's a little fuzzier with digital, since the "film" is BUILT IN. "Good glass" is not hard to come by. One doesn't have to buy LTDs to take sharp, contrasty, colorful pictures. I think the K-5 is a new breed. It's approaching "good enough". I don't mean "good enough for a standard 8x10 snapshot of a well lit subject." I mean potentially good enough to use until the shutter wears out. It's good enough, IMO, that buying a K-7 is wasting money, because you'll want to upgrade to a K-5 soon anyway. If I were starting over, I'd take a K-5 and a good 50mm over a K-7 and a 43ltd ANY DAY, and I'd recommend the same to anyone who asked. The camera will make far more difference in the images than the difference between those two lenses will. After you've gotten that far, any more lenses are a wash. Your argument certainly has merit; I'm merely pointing out that it's not the only rational way to look at it.

05-10-2011, 05:46 PM	#44
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	That's the view I've been led to believe too jstevewhite. The K-5 is the first SLR I have thought to myself that I do not need to upgrade. The ISO performance is adequate for just about any situation, and the AF does the job in quite bad lighting most of the time. Then again, I don't expect it to be perfect, which it isn't. However the K-5's predecessors had at least one main niggle that made upgrading a formality. And when the next generation of pentax dSLR comes on line, there will be yet another reason to upgrade, but I have my doubts as to whether this is the kind of upgrade from something like a K-5 that will be absolutely necessary to have for work (it will likely be a 'nice to have' upgrade instead). That's just my point of view on it.

05-10-2011, 10:51 PM	#45
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by jstevewhite I mean potentially good enough to use until the shutter wears out. I actually came to this same conclusion for even older cameras. The K10D is still good enough for most of what I shoot and I'll keep using it until I won't be able to anymore. I argue that getting a higher end body is more important than getting a higher end lens. But I argue this because I value the build (durability and handling), controls (ease of use), and extra features (flexibility, not because of sensor performance.