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05-05-2011, 07:09 PM   #16
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Thanks guys. I will take a look. I have the K20D and K10D, not K-x.

05-05-2011, 11:20 PM   #17
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It certainly isn't the best image quality of the universe, but it's damn amazing for a $500 camera. PENTAX guys really squeezed the best they could out of that sensor in the K-x, and the dynamic range and noise control are pure delight.

From an interview with PENTAX engineers while they developed the K10D, talking about the challenges of improving high ISO noise:

QuoteQuote:
The pixel pitch is smaller and the sensitivity has a one stop disadvantage (ISO 100 to 1600). This means a higher degree of noise, of which we were fully aware, so we strived for “film-like quality,” which was always our goal. It’s true that noise increases as sensitivity increases, but we wanted to make the noise look more natural. A special concern was not to create a “digital-like” image due to unnatural suppression of noise by image processing. In order to achieve more natural looking images, we conducted various fine tunings.
This kind of attention to engineering problems is really big to me. For instance, the noise you get out of Canon pictures - specially in lower-end models - is awful, full of chroma patterns that are impossible to fix in PP without destroying the image. And that sucks, because the lower-end models are exactly the ones people will take out around and shoot under a variety of lightning situations with their slow kit zooms.

Not everyone shoots a full frame camera inside a studio, and the other manufacturers seem to ignore that. They enter on a nerd war to see which one launches a camera with bigger numbers on the specs, or that includes whatever stupid feature is the new trend, instead of fixing crap like sensor noise, or coming up with innovations like sensor stabilization or weather-proofing that, you know, actually helps people going out more and taking more photos.
05-05-2011, 11:30 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
It certainly isn't the best image quality of the universe, but it's damn amazing for a $500 camera. PENTAX guys really squeezed the best they could out of that sensor in the K-x, and the dynamic range and noise control are pure delight.

From an interview with PENTAX engineers while they developed the K10D, talking about the challenges of improving high ISO noise:



This kind of attention to engineering problems is really big to me. For instance, the noise you get out of Canon pictures - specially in lower-end models - is awful, full of chroma patterns that are impossible to fix in PP without destroying the image. And that sucks, because the lower-end models are exactly the ones people will take out around and shoot under a variety of lightning situations with their slow kit zooms.

Not everyone shoots a full frame camera inside a studio, and the other manufacturers seem to ignore that. They enter on a nerd war to see which one launches a camera with bigger numbers on the specs, or that includes whatever stupid feature is the new trend, instead of fixing crap like sensor noise, or coming up with innovations like sensor stabilization or weather-proofing that, you know, actually helps people going out more and taking more photos.
You cite the K10, I suppose you are aware that the K10 had this very same kind of horrible chroma noise, right?
05-05-2011, 11:40 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zav Quote
You cite the K10, I suppose you are aware that the K10 had this very same kind of horrible chroma noise, right?
Not sure how well it fares. Still, the K10D was released ages ago and used a CCD sensor. My point isn't if K10D at ISO 1600 is acceptable or not. What I wanted to point is that back then they were already concerned about this, and made their homework, as the later models improved noise control by leaps.

While with other cameras, I still see crappy chroma noise, even in cameras many times more expensive as the K-x. Why? Because they just increase pixel density, but to control noise you actually need to tweak a lot of things around the sensor.

That's not something you do when you have a short release cycle to launch half a dozen new cameras for different market tiers because you want to be ahead of everybody. Then you just enter on a market cold-war, instead of being able to stop and think features for your niche market, which is what PENTAX is doing with quality entry-level offerings and weather-proof gear.


Last edited by hcarvalhoalves; 05-06-2011 at 12:16 AM.
05-05-2011, 11:54 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Personally, I tend to not be impressed by the differences between DSLR's. They are all more than good for most purposes. But then, I also don't care exactly how fast my car can accelerate from 0 to 60MPH, whether the ice cube maker in my freezer can make 8 or 10 cubes per hour, or whether my breakfast cereal has 30% of my recommendation daily intake of riboflavin or only 23%. Sometimes I can get still worked up about that kind of stuff, but not as much as I used to. And more likely about lenses than cameras.
+1 and I love my k-x
05-06-2011, 02:39 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by metalmania Quote
Any link to support OP's statement? I find it hard to believe. What about the lens they use? Can you compare apple to orange?
Sorry I was going to mention in my original posting my source: snapsort.com . Just punch in the two cameras you want to compare.
05-06-2011, 02:46 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Personally, I tend to not be impressed by the differences between DSLR's. They are all more than good for most purposes.
Yeah I agree, however I do have to say I am impressed with how little I spent on a camera that is capable of taking photographs with image quality as nice or better than an expensive Canon: $439 for K-X kit. I'm not rich--kinda poor actually and $439 was a lot for me lol.
05-06-2011, 08:58 AM   #23
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Ya know... when I get a few pennies saved up, I'm gonna have to pick up a K-X body. I've always wanted one for the high ISO performance and the video might come in handy every once in awhile.

Cheers,
Bobbo :-)

05-07-2011, 05:26 PM   #24
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I've always been a budget minded shooter so I have frequently owned the lower end cameras such as the SP 500, the ME Super, the PX-10, the ZX-M, and the Samsung GX-1L for my first digital. However, I have compared the images that I get with my K-x to images I have taken with a Nikon D90 and Canon 7D with the same lenses (screw-mount Takumars) and can honestly say the the Pentax K-x is nothing short of amazing. Best entry level camera I have ever owned.
05-07-2011, 09:33 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by sawtooth235 Quote
owned the lower end cameras such as the SP 500, the ME Super, the PX-10, the ZX-M, and the Samsung GX-1L for my first digital
You have lower end and ME Super in the same sentence, when was the ME Super considered lower end?
05-10-2011, 05:12 PM   #26
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O.K., I'll give you that one, and really the ZX-M wasn't lower end it was just manual version of the line. I actually just took my ME Super out for some b&w shooting with a 17mm the other day and it is still a great camera.
05-10-2011, 05:18 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by sawtooth235 Quote
O.K., I'll give you that one, and really the ZX-M wasn't lower end it was just manual version of the line. I actually just took my ME Super out for some b&w shooting with a 17mm the other day and it is still a great camera.
Yes, indeed it is. I just shot some B&W with mine about 2 weeks ago, had it paired with the Vivitar Series 1 70-210 (ver 3), pictures turned out insanely good (of course, helps when you have glass like that attached to it)...


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