Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-05-2007, 10:53 AM   #76
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 475
QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Ray,

Have you tried shooting outside Northern California? Here in Texas, I do fine with landscapes, but of course the ground isn't moving under my feet as I shoot. ;-)

Will
(trying to lighten things up, even when I can't shed any light on the subject)
That's funny!

The DS/K100D have been to London, Grenoble, Helsinki and other places in Finland, Estonia and Canada. The K100D died in London on one trip.

I managed to get the K10D in time to take it to London and then to Helsinki and a day trip from there to Estonia. I will be taking the K10D and the two DA* lenses to Finland for a week or so at the end of this week.

Here's a few from Tallinn with the K10D. Probably had the 16-45 on except for the beggar woman, which I think was the 50-200, but I do not recall for sure:

Ray


Last edited by Ray Pulley; 01-16-2008 at 11:09 AM.
11-05-2007, 11:50 AM   #77
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Virginia Beach VA USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,364
No camera is perfect. If you read through the Nikon and Canon forums, you will read plenty of complaints. The truth is each DSLR camera line has areas they excel at and other areas that aren’t so hot.

So to your specific questions

Edge Softness:
Believe it or not, the jpeg sharpening algorithm that produces “slightly soft “ jpegs is by design and not a fault. I read this in an interview with one of the chief designers. Sorry, I don’t have the link anymore. Apparently their market research revealed that the target consumer for the K10D preferred to do at least some of their own processing. When you sharpen an image, whether in camera or in your computer, you create artifacts. The stronger the sharpening, the worse the artifacts (this is over simplified, but will do for the explanation). The K10D’s sharpening algorithm is designed to produce less sharpening artifacts and preserve the file to sharpen with a more sophisticated program such as PS. The net result is softer jpegs at the default settings. You can increase sharpness in camera, but the look will not be like a Canon or Nikon. Whether you agree with the philosophy or not, it is what it is.

Noise at High ISO:
All cameras create more noise at high ISO. As the gain is turned up, the signal to noise ratio goes down. Some cameras do better than others. Canon’s CMOS seems to do a very good job at high ISOs, but some amount of noise is masked by noise reduction that also removes detail from the image. The Nikon D80, which uses the same sensor, shows less noise but even stronger noise reduction. The Sony A100, which also uses the same sensor is just plain awful at high ISO. The K10D is smack in the middle, but the amount of detail the file holds is remarkable. So guess what… run it through Noise Ninja or Neat Image and you will get a reduced noise, high detail image.

Slow Focus:
Yes the K10D is slower to focus than Canon or Nikon, but it is still pretty quick, and accurate. I can track a jet traveling at 500-600 knots easily enough. Where I have a problem is getting focus lock in a dark, low contrast scene (Try a black dog in a dimly lit areana LOL). For the most part it is good enough for 99% of my work. If you are going to shoot mostly action and sports, you might want to shop else where. The new Nikon 51 sensor system sounds interesting though. I would love to read a test on it.

To whether you made a wrong choice, only you can answer that.
  • If you buy into the Pentax philosophy of sharpening, and processing, and are willing to do some PP work. - As an aside, quite a few users are quite satisfied by tweaking the in camera sharpness. I have seen may very fine examples of K10D jpegs with no post processing.
  • What kind of work you want to do.
  • Does the system have enough of the type of lenses and accessories offered fit your needs?
All these questions and more, you need to answer for your self, and are much more importance than what Joe blow of xyz website says about the camera.

Sorry for the long post. I hope this doesn’t confuse you more.

Last edited by roscot; 11-05-2007 at 12:55 PM.
11-05-2007, 04:27 PM   #78
Veteran Member
lol101's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Garennes sur Eure France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 900
To put things into perspective...

QuoteOriginally posted by SupremeMoFo Quote
Ray - why is it so important to have 95% of photos in focus? I'd say about 70% of the motorsport photos I take are in focus, nearly 80% of the shots I took yesterday at a downhill MTB race were in focus and nearly all that I've taken at football games (in daylight) are in focus. You need to modify your technique and not focus on the moving subject but predict where the subject will be, focus there and the results are much better.
If interested, an informative test of the 40D AI-Servo tracking capabilities (with some data abour 1D MkIII to compare with) can be found at:

Canon 40D Interactive Review - Pro Photo HOME

This is with a guy running straight to the camera in bright sunlight. Some other testers reported better performances on other tests (slower targets mainly).

Just in case someone interprets this post the wrong way, my point is not to say that the 40D is a bad camera, or underperforming in the AF department, it's the opposite, it's just to show what can reasonably be expected from an EXCELLENT AF system. That pretty much sets the frame of reference for evaluating the K10's AF performances.
11-05-2007, 04:44 PM   #79
Veteran Member
distudio's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Photos: Albums
Posts: 440
QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Just in case someone interprets this post the wrong way, my point is not to say that the 40D is a bad camera, or underperforming in the AF department, it's the opposite, it's just to show what can reasonably be expected from an EXCELLENT AF system. That pretty much sets the frame of reference for evaluating the K10's AF performances.
I don't know if you've seen the following article which tests dynamic AF performance for many DSLRs, I think the results correlate pretty well with anecdotal comparative AF performance reports (warning it's about 7MB in size and in French only):

http://www.fnac.net/telecharg/dossiers_techniques_2007/numerique_ete2007.pdf

Cheers,

11-05-2007, 05:00 PM   #80
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 255
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote

However, I am getting too many soft images of static landscapes and other objects that have plenty of contrast and should be easy for the camera to lock onto.
Ray
I'm a bit surprised here, how does this happen? I can understand missing focus on moving low-light subjects, but a static landscape?
11-05-2007, 07:26 PM   #81
m8o
Veteran Member
m8o's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 40-55'-44" N / 73-24'-07" W [on LI]
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,102
QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
I'm a bit surprised here, how does this happen? I can understand missing focus on moving low-light subjects, but a static landscape?
Not wanting to pile on as my hapiness with my choice is well documented, but I can say regarding this, "Yet true... I can however concur". I'm going to make a thread one of these days with pix of all the subjects out in the wide open in good light that I couldn't focus on in Tanzania... where other times I was able to nail focus on a subject in dim light, not only under the canopy of the tree's leaves but partly obstucted by them too... I really don't get it.
11-05-2007, 08:20 PM   #82
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 255
QuoteOriginally posted by m8o Quote
Not wanting to pile on as my hapiness with my choice is well documented, but I can say regarding this, "Yet true... I can however concur". I'm going to make a thread one of these days with pix of all the subjects out in the wide open in good light that I couldn't focus on in Tanzania... where other times I was able to nail focus on a subject in dim light, not only under the canopy of the tree's leaves but partly obstucted by them too... I really don't get it.
Just weird, I've had my share of low light focus issues, but I've never had any problems focusing in good light for static landscapes. It just focuses.

I just ran through a bunch of photos in Lightroom for a look, nothing I can see.

I do have a bunch of photos from shooting a parade at 7pm at night, terrible low light, multiple light sources from overhead lights, car headlights, shop windows, and the DA* 16-50 nailed focus over 90% at least. All the blur was from movement, not misfocus. I was pretty much at the limit of handhold shooting, and I really can't complain about the AF. Although I must admit the parade and people weren't moving fast like sports shooting.

Not that I think K10D AF is the best in the range or anything, but I don't think its that bad either.
11-05-2007, 09:14 PM   #83
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 475
QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
I'm a bit surprised here, how does this happen? I can understand missing focus on moving low-light subjects, but a static landscape?
I wish I knew what the cause is. Sometimes things are fine, others not so fine.

I have at least one issue that was contributing to the problem that is not entirely a new problem, but I had not really realized the extent that it might affect my images:

Blown yellows in bright, contrasty lighting.

This was not evident looking at the luminance histo, but upon further investigation, the red channel is almost always well off the chart to the right when the luminance looks ok when shooting bright yellows. I would estimate that this equates to about 2/3 stop.

The yellows look fuzzy and sort of out of focus but they are really just over-exposed. Sometimes this is recoverable in RAW, but not always. This has the unfortunate side effect of reducing DR when there are bright yellows in the scene. I now look at the red histogram or just underexpose on the regular histogram when shooting bright yellows.

Otherwise I have my suspicions about SR being part of the problem, but this would be hard to test. I plan to shoot more with the SR off unless I really am shooting at very slow shutter speeds for the focal length. If I get significantly more sharp images, that will be a clue.

Other than that, the DA* lenses seem to have a better hit rate on sharpness with the K10D so far, but I have shot only a few hundred frames with them.

I also suspect that the AF system with older screwdriver lenses is probably somewhat of a compromise. Each lens has different optical properties, different tolerances, different total throw in the focus mechnism and different gear ratios on the drive screw/ring gear, but they are all driven with the same motor in the body and the AF aperture was designed to work with the slowest of the older lenses (f5.6 I think). What works perfectly on one lens might be less than perfect on another, and so on. Maybe this is the price we pay for backwards compatibility and maybe some of this can be corrected by specific calibration of my lenses to the bodies? Some recent information floating around the net seems to indicate that this per lens calibration is possible.

While PP'ing images from one trip shooting fall colors I was ready to give up on Pentax for the first time in 30+ years, but with all of the promised future wonderment and the results I see from others, I will give it some more effort and time. If I made my living in photography, I would have already been forced to move on, I am afraid.

I think that we have hijacked this thread enough now...

Ray

11-05-2007, 11:22 PM   #84
Veteran Member
lol101's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Garennes sur Eure France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 900
QuoteOriginally posted by distudio Quote
I don't know if you've seen the following article which tests dynamic AF performance for many DSLRs, I think the results correlate pretty well with anecdotal comparative AF performance reports (warning it's about 7MB in size and in French only):

http://www.fnac.net/telecharg/dossiers_techniques_2007/numerique_ete2007.pdf

Cheers,
Hi,

Yes, I have seen that report and agree with you: some work to do for Pentax engineers

The magazine Chasseur d'Images had better results at AF tracking on a 50km/h car using tha DA 50-200 but that's still hardly on par with other comparable cameras out there.
11-06-2007, 05:19 AM   #85
Veteran Member
PaulAndAPentax's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 390
A couple of things I have learned is that flimsy tripods can cause blurred landscapes. Not sure if this is the case for you (guys), but I used to get some terrible out of focus landscapes (and bird shots) using some cheaper tripods and when I went and spend bucks on a manfrotto tripod and ballhead, it pretty much stopped. Further, the heavier the lens, the beefier the tripod you need. I wonder if you would have the same o/o/f landscapes using a cable release or a remote. Might be worth an experiment.

I have found in some cases that SR can be an enemy. I never use it on the tripod or in good light.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, concern, dslr, focus, iso, issues, k10d, noise, photography, sharpness, softness
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Focusing Issues with the K10d quattro Pentax DSLR Discussion 23 05-03-2010 01:47 PM
K10D focus issues Harald Pentax DSLR Discussion 26 02-09-2010 09:30 PM
K10D + HSM issues tigereye Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 5 05-09-2009 04:36 PM
K10D going in for BF issues pentkon52 Pentax DSLR Discussion 7 03-03-2008 09:50 PM
K10D AF issues................. hudsong Pentax DSLR Discussion 20 02-22-2008 12:50 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:22 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top