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05-20-2011, 10:12 AM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
If you like the "film look", Silver Efex will rock your world. If you haven't shot a lot of B&W film in your life, you may respond to it with a heartfelt "meh".

Nik does the film look well, i have a film pack plugin for my copy of dxo, so nik has less benefit for me. and despite the plugin as my skills improved in Lr i rarely go to DXO just for the film look

05-20-2011, 10:27 AM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Nik does the film look well, i have a film pack plugin for my copy of dxo, so nik has less benefit for me. and despite the plugin as my skills improved in Lr i rarely go to DXO just for the film look
I just don't like the bare conversion in Photoshop. B&W conversion by desaturation just looks ... plasticky is the word that comes to mind. I'm certain it's because of my history. It was a long time before I would even make B&W from digital; feels like cheating and didn't look right to me . But the vast majority of B&W images i've ever shot were MF TX. (well, I shot a bunch of 35mm tri-x in high school, too). Silver Efex gives my B&W prints the "right"... "visual feel". Most of my B&W prints now could pass for film prints on RC paper. They still don't look quite like the gallery prints on fiber paper, though. When I find a printer that does pigment-based printing on paper like that, I'll have a new printer.
05-20-2011, 10:43 AM   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
I just don't like the bare conversion in Photoshop. B&W conversion by desaturation just looks ... plasticky is the word that comes to mind. I'm certain it's because of my history. It was a long time before I would even make B&W from digital; feels like cheating and didn't look right to me . But the vast majority of B&W images i've ever shot were MF TX. (well, I shot a bunch of 35mm tri-x in high school, too). Silver Efex gives my B&W prints the "right"... "visual feel". Most of my B&W prints now could pass for film prints on RC paper. They still don't look quite like the gallery prints on fiber paper, though. When I find a printer that does pigment-based printing on paper like that, I'll have a new printer.
I agree with it not reaching film, one of the reasons i bought my 645 was to shoot b/w film
the DxO film pack has pretty passable b/w film emulations - including Tri-x, (the silver Efex is a little better though - but i got the film pack free)
For me where the down fall comes is printing an archival fine art print. Wet Darkroom still wins there as far as i am concerned.

For conversions I recently got the book below and my ability to PP without the plugins has jumped considerably so i am more happy now than i was

Amazon.com: Black and White in Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom: A complete integrated workflow solution for creating stunning monochromatic images in Photoshop CS4, Photoshop Lightroom, and beyond (9780240521596): Leslie Alsheimer, Bryan O'Neil Hughe
05-20-2011, 11:14 AM   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I agree with it not reaching film, one of the reasons i bought my 645 was to shoot b/w film
the DxO film pack has pretty passable b/w film emulations - including Tri-x, (the silver Efex is a little better though - but i got the film pack free)
For me where the down fall comes is printing an archival fine art print. Wet Darkroom still wins there as far as i am concerned.

For conversions I recently got the book below and my ability to PP without the plugins has jumped considerably so i am more happy now than i was

Amazon.com: Black and White in Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom: A complete integrated workflow solution for creating stunning monochromatic images in Photoshop CS4, Photoshop Lightroom, and beyond (9780240521596): Leslie Alsheimer, Bryan O'Neil Hughe
Thanks for the recommendation; I just ordered the Kindle version.

I've played with some of the pigment based multi-gray inks; they work really, really well, but I just don't print at a high enough volume to maintain them. I printed some 8x10s on a heavy claycoat art paper using a system based on 5 grays and black, and it's very, very close. If it would stand disuse for a while, I'd be satisfied with it, but I waited a month to print again and it was NOT going to work (blocked up print heads). *sigh* So close.

05-20-2011, 11:55 AM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
Thanks for the recommendation; I just ordered the Kindle version.

I've played with some of the pigment based multi-gray inks; they work really, really well, but I just don't print at a high enough volume to maintain them. I printed some 8x10s on a heavy claycoat art paper using a system based on 5 grays and black, and it's very, very close. If it would stand disuse for a while, I'd be satisfied with it, but I waited a month to print again and it was NOT going to work (blocked up print heads). *sigh* So close.

I had heard the multi grey systems were quite good. Don't print frequently enough to justify at the moment, but i am working on a show maybe that will justify one of the large formate versions versus the cost of sending to a good lab
05-20-2011, 11:57 AM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I had heard the multi grey systems were quite good. Don't print frequently enough to justify at the moment, but i am working on a show maybe that will justify one of the large formate versions versus the cost of sending to a good lab
If you've ever looked through photo-art books with duotone or tri-tone B&W, you get an idea of how good the multi-gray inks can be. And you can put 'em on some high quality art papers. Worth checking out, anyway!
05-20-2011, 12:03 PM   #262
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i've sent out duo tones for printing on fine art papers at a good local lab and the results were impressive, and am getting pretty decent proof quality from my 13x19 canon printer. mind you i've started assembling a working darkroom again as well to print negs from my medium formats and rangefinders (if i can find the time, digital post has a much faster workflow than wet work, though i like the darkroom it's a very zen like space once you are in the zone.
I also want to do some digital interneg to wet printing, specifically contact prints on platinum and palladium papers - i'm a sucker for punishment sometimes - and quite likely some other alt processes like bromoils (i haven't done any of this stuff in a little over 30 years now)
05-20-2011, 12:14 PM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
i've sent out duo tones for printing on fine art papers at a good local lab and the results were impressive, and am getting pretty decent proof quality from my 13x19 canon printer. mind you i've started assembling a working darkroom again as well to print negs from my medium formats and rangefinders (if i can find the time, digital post has a much faster workflow than wet work, though i like the darkroom it's a very zen like space once you are in the zone.
I also want to do some digital interneg to wet printing, specifically contact prints on platinum and palladium papers - i'm a sucker for punishment sometimes - and quite likely some other alt processes like bromoils (i haven't done any of this stuff in a little over 30 years now)
Wohoo! Getting SERIOUS. You know, I do miss the darkroom sometimes. I only did my own work - I sent out all my commercial work, even black and white, because the local lab I used could make things far more consistent than I would in my darkroom - but I do miss watching the image come up, poring over contact sheets with a loupe, etc. I don't miss the smell of dektol or stop bath, though! I had a working darkroom until about ten years ago when my daughter was born, and I didn't have time for that anymore

I'll keep looking for a local lab that can do good B&W printing.

05-20-2011, 12:39 PM   #264
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
Wohoo! Getting SERIOUS. You know, I do miss the darkroom sometimes. I only did my own work - I sent out all my commercial work, even black and white, because the local lab I used could make things far more consistent than I would in my darkroom - but I do miss watching the image come up, poring over contact sheets with a loupe, etc. I don't miss the smell of dektol or stop bath, though! I had a working darkroom until about ten years ago when my daughter was born, and I didn't have time for that anymore

I'll keep looking for a local lab that can do good B&W printing.
For Wet Printing we have a great pro lab locally, but his hours are now sporadic, he's a real PITA to deal with but he makes amazing prints so it's worth the hassle sometimes - the other main lab for this type of thing is the one who screwed up my 6 rolls of IR rollei by under-processing by a huge margin. all shot in rome so not likely to get another shot at them soon. hence my return to the darkroom
there are still a couple of others i haven't used open as well. sometimes there are huge advantages to living in the biggest city in the country, We have far better services of this type than comparably sized cities in the US and elsewhere form what i can tell
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