Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-20-2011, 11:20 AM   #31
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midwest
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,407
QuoteOriginally posted by yusuf Quote
It's not just marketing, if you are into AF and if you can afford the camera and lenses, they can produce more keepers.

I like Pentax and I am sticking to it for lenses and i-body stabilization, but I recently had a chance to use 60D and AF was like a day & night difference. Again, I am not saying this to bring down Pentax but there is something we should be open to admit.

Now if photography is your bread and butter, there is no way you can take risk on some of these things, especially precise AF. And once more and more pro using them, it's natural for more and more amateur to get those cameras too.

Pentax seems to be narrowing that gap with k-5, but still there is a long way to go to win the confidence.
Because photographers never ever made a living without 1200-zone follow-focus super tracking systems... LOL, just kidding. You've got a point, but I don't think you can make it categorical like that. I've shot a few weddings for family members and my K20D (much worse AF than the K-5) had ZERO trouble keeping up with all of the action at a wedding. Since there are more professional portrait and wedding photographers than sports photographers, I think it's important to clarify what they'll be shooting before telling them Pentax autofocus ( which is now - with the K-5 - right in the hunt with Sony and Oly and even some Canons and Nikons short of their more expensive systems ). Blanket statements like "There's no way you can take a risk on these things" are misleading.

05-20-2011, 11:21 AM   #32
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midwest
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,407
QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Hey, I've got both those and they aren't 'left for dead.' Still in play.
He did say that CANON left for dead...

QuoteQuote:
As for the old arguments about what's 'pro'... pro is knowing what you need, and making some money on it. Canon and Nikon both make some fine pro products, but it's *their* definition of 'pro,' which was never everyone's. Pentax could always expand their line, to cover more people's needs, but if they've got what you need, and more importantly, can put it in your hands for what you've got, then that's your gear, and that's all there is to it.

It's sometimes a *nice* thing that if Pentax's top of the line isn't a three thousand dollar rig, you know they aren't holding something back to try and make you want the pricier thing.
'Zackly!
05-20-2011, 11:29 AM   #33
Pentaxian
Ratmagiclady's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: GA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 13,464
QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
He did say that CANON left for dead...
Well, fair enough: I do understand their reasons, though that didn't translate into me ever buying an EOS body: I just stuck with the old stuff.



QuoteQuote:
'Zackly!
It's another thing I suppose that just cause you're on a certain level some call 'Pro,' ...doesn't mean it's actually your way to be pushing the envelope of equipment performance: I just want it to be precise, suitable for every-day carry, and *work.* (And feel good, actually: that's important to how I work: I really like to interface well with whatever gear: it helps put me in the right space to do my best. I kind of 'think with my body' a lot, so it's good to have everything feel right. )

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 05-20-2011 at 11:34 AM.
05-20-2011, 12:58 PM   #34
Junior Member
dom777's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: nbg
Posts: 29
QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Yep, you pay for premium shelf space at all big box retailers, and you subsidize all advertising in flyers etc to get presence.
In my opinion, Pentaxsī lack of presence in the bigger stores (B&M or equivalent) is the reason for their low market-share. When I had the idea to get into photography, knowing nothing about dslrs, I first asked my friends for their recommendations - all of them had CaNikon-gear! I went to a big electronics-store to go see which camera of those two brands fit my budget. Luckily, this store had a k200 on sale for an unbeatable price. I had never heard of Pentax, but it felt good in my hands and the sales-person was quite enthusiastic about it. I went home to read about the brand / model on the web, found this forum and many good reviews. I bought the camera and am happy with my choice in Pentax ever since, even upgraded to the k-7.

Unfortunately, most big stores do not sell Pentax gear, but have Canon and Nikon on sale all of the time. Most people will just get one of those because they already know the names from TV or their friends and never even know about Pentax. Of course, when these people eventually feel the need to upgrade, they most likely stick to "their" choice in brands.

So far, most people I have met while taking photos were amazed by the k-7, but none of them owning a Pentax themselves. If pentax refuses to pay for space in the big stores, the majority of the customers just continues to buy the stuff that is on display. You donīt know what you are missing if you donīt actually see the alternatives there are. And I doubt that the limiteds or long and fast lenses are considered by beginners who most likely start out with one of the lower end models an a kit-lens anyway.

05-20-2011, 01:16 PM   #35
Loyal Site Supporter
jamarley's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 409
QuoteOriginally posted by dom777 Quote
You donīt know what you are missing if you donīt actually see the alternatives there are. And I doubt that the limiteds or long and fast lenses are considered by beginners who most likely start out with one of the lower end models an a kit-lens anyway.
Good point and shows just why Pentax should take a hard look at having a more visible retail presence. Hook 'em with starter gear and as your customers' photographic needs grow, so do profits grow!
05-20-2011, 01:34 PM   #36
Pentaxian
Ratmagiclady's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: GA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 13,464
QuoteOriginally posted by jamarley Quote
Good point and shows just why Pentax should take a hard look at having a more visible retail presence. Hook 'em with starter gear and as your customers' photographic needs grow, so do profits grow!
Sometimes it's not even a matter of 'hooking.' Selling beginners gear cause it has the same *name* as stuff they'll never buy isn't actually giving them the best stuff or giving them the most suitable gear.

If I ever *did* jump to, say, Nikon, it would be cause I actually needed something that I could have with, say, a D700, not cause I would have rather had a D70 than my K20d all this time.

Maybe there's a notion of 'hooking' but the fact is, in any brand, there's nothing in a starter kit that you won't want to replace if you *did* jump up to 'pro' gear. Beginners should have whatever's best for the task at hand. Just like people on a budget who know what we're doing want what's the best we can have for the task at hand.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 05-20-2011 at 01:40 PM.
05-20-2011, 01:38 PM   #37
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,812
QuoteOriginally posted by freehighlander Quote
Apart from the obvious why is there so many users of these Cameras.
I Had a shot of a D90 I think and did not get on with it at all build quality was rubbish and the ergonomics terrible compared to the K7 that I eventualy plumped for.
Is it just a branding advertisement issue or is there something else.
When a freind of mine saw I went Pentaxian over Nikonion he poo pooed my choice.
so is there any insider reason why the prolification on Canikonitus
Without meaning any disrespect -
this is tantamount to asking
why isn't Pentax (K-7) more popular?
and why doesn't the Pentax get instant worship by other photographers?
and why don't other photographers fall to their knees when they see Pentax users/us?

Now the questions are obviously ridiculous and stupid examples.

But really does it matter a hoot whether we are using the most popular and recognizable camera around?

This is a long running discussion and there are many other threads in similar forms debating this.

However I will take you up on the Nikon D90 vs. Pentax K-7.

First let me say the K-7 is a very fine camera -
but if one were to compare at HighISO -
I'm afraid the Nikon D90 will be noticeably better
(notice please I did not say "blow away" or "the K-7 would be rubbish")

For a long time I really coveted the Nikon D90 -
until the Pentax K-x came out - here was a more budget camera with some better features, and similar or even better performance at HighISO than the D90 (no, the build quality was not as good, nor did the K-x have a real pentaprism) but it was cheaper and did a lot of things better - so for me the K-x was a no brainer.

So one can see I had respect for the Nikon D90.

There are lots of reasons for others to choose Nikon or Canon -
some more valid than others.

Just as there are lots of reasons for us to choose Pentax -
some more valid than others.

If it really bothers, or matters
- then develop the highest form of "snobbism" -
that of inverse snobbism -
and just smile knowingly when someone notices Pentax....

then force them to their knee to worship us
I'll be looking for you to help on this
05-20-2011, 01:45 PM   #38
Pentaxian
Ratmagiclady's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: GA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 13,464
Strange paradigm, there, Unknown. Maybe it's not about 'worship,' and maybe if there's a rogueish counter-snobbery, it's precisely cause the big-brand snobbery's off base. I used to love burning Nikon snobs as a kid. (While reloading a Canon, not a favored brand at the time) ..."Why are you using that? That's a piece of junk!' (me, jerking thumb as I close the back, (while Nikon guy's still reloading) "Yeah, that's not what *he* says.... *" 'Hrm?' *meanwhile, RML's gone, getting shots. * )


But, I mean, yeah, it's natural to take some pride in *this kind of thing,* cause if someone says, 'You have crappy gear,' they can't *possibly win. * If you beat em anyway, they look twice as stupid, and if they get better shots, they already credited a machine.


Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 05-20-2011 at 01:51 PM.
05-20-2011, 02:03 PM   #39
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,812
QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Strange paradigm, there, Unknown. Maybe it's not about 'worship,' and maybe if there's a rogueish counter-snobbery, it's precisely cause the big-brand snobbery's off base. I used to love burning Nikon snobs as a kid. (While reloading a Canon, not a favored brand at the time) ..."Why are you using that? That's a piece of junk!' (me, jerking thumb as I close the back, (while Nikon guy's still reloading) "Yeah, that's not what *he* says.... *" 'Hrm?' *meanwhile, RML's gone, getting shots. * )
But, I mean, yeah, it's natural to take some pride in *this kind of thing,* cause if someone says, 'You have crappy gear,' they can't *possibly win. * If you beat em anyway, they look twice as stupid, and if they get better shots, they already credited a machine.
Ha-ha! I used a Canon SLR before it was a real rival to Nikon -
the film SLR Canon F-1 -
it was in fact that camera that pole-vaulted Canon into the fray.

So yeah, I'll take some blame.

The definition of snobbism is based on insecurity:
Wikipedia on snob:
QuoteQuote:
Snobbism is a defensive expression of social insecurity
The fact that I've never owned a Nikon (even though I did covet the Nikon D90 and now the Nikon D7000 just as I equally covet the Pentax K-5) probably means I suffer from inverse/reverse snobbism .....
especially for the cameras that are more expensive than the K-x -
which means almost all of you.....

So no one is immune.
05-20-2011, 02:08 PM   #40
Veteran Member
yeatzee's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Temecula
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,675
Because Canon and nikon own the soccer mom and teenage girl "im a photographer " market
05-20-2011, 02:18 PM   #41
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midwest
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,407
Let's be clear. If I won the lottery big - you know, the $120M one - I'd probably own ... oh, nearly everything Just because I love the machinery as well as the process and product.

I spent a lovely summer with a Rollei TLR... it was love at first sight. Same with Hasselblad, Linhof, Rodenstock... Can't help myself; if there were no constraints on my "PGBA" (Photo Gear etc), I'd have a veritable museum of the stuff. There's NO CAMERA that I *dislike*.
05-20-2011, 02:23 PM   #42
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, PRofMA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,053
Rentals are a big part of it, as is the wider range of fast, excellent glass.
E.g., Nikon's latest lenses over the past few years have been ridiculously sharp all across the frame...they've beaten some of Canon's offerings. You can rent Canikon gear locally easily.
The huge retail presence also helps.

I doubt Pentax will ever have deep enough pockets to compete at that level. As it is, they get overspent by Sony and Olympus for advertising and shelf space... :-P
It doesn't mean Pentax gear isn't great...just not necessarily what pros might use...
05-20-2011, 03:40 PM   #43
Pentaxian
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Causes of Canikonitis:

1) Aggressive marketing
2) Ubiquitous presence
+1

Simply getting Pentax into retail points of sale is huge. The entry level market needs to have Pentax on their radar when they begin their shopping process, and if they only see Canon/Nikon (& Sony) in Target, Best Buy, etc, they think that there's some reason they should limit their choices to those brands, even if they take the process further, into camera shops, the internet, etc.

Then there's friggin' Ashton Kutcher.


.
05-20-2011, 03:50 PM   #44
Veteran Member
yeatzee's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Temecula
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,675
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote

Then there's friggin' Ashton Kutcher.


.
05-20-2011, 03:52 PM   #45
Veteran Member
Lurch's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 577
I made the point earlier about Pentax not having anything in the 'Pro' range. I should a) clarify that I meant in comparison to the 1D etc, also b) at a price point. They kind of go straight from the pro-sumer K5 (~$1800AU) straight to the 645d (*drool*, but ~$12000AU) with nothing in between. It's a slot I think they need to cover.

I still stand by that, however having read the proceeding posts I then went looking online at local retailers here in Canberra, and you're right....
Harvey Norman - no Pentax, Domayne - no Pentax, JBHifi - KR only, Dick Smith - Nada. Even our only dedicated photography shop (Teds) only keep one KR and one K5 on the shelf, while there are rows and rows of Canon, Nikon, and Sony.

However in saying that, I was chatting recently to a mate who has only ever shot with Canon, and even he agreed that Pentax is, although small, a serious player now and anyone one who discredits or try's to ignore them are the idiots.
I think the 645 is proof that Pentax do still know what they are doing from a body point of view, and no one should have ever argued with their glass.

Some Canikon user will always look down on not just Pentax, but simply anyone not using a Canikon. IMHO Sony is still too new to the game (although they obviously have the $'s behind them) - but go find a bunch of Olympus users - and they are just as passionate about their kit/brand as us. I guess its just the underdog mentality?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
We hear about people switching to Canikon, anyone switched from Canikon to Pentax? Eric Seavey Pentax DSLR Discussion 22 08-08-2010 06:54 AM
Canikon dealer used a Pentax viewfinder Pentax DSLR Discussion 7 03-13-2010 01:03 PM
Quick Shift, for Canikon? systemA Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 7 01-27-2010 03:40 PM
Canikon response to K-7 Not Registered Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 46 11-09-2009 08:04 PM
Brain Disease? Rupert General Talk 5 08-12-2009 12:17 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:33 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top