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05-20-2011, 03:54 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
Ha-ha! I used a Canon SLR before it was a real rival to Nikon -
the film SLR Canon F-1 -
it was in fact that camera that pole-vaulted Canon into the fray.

So yeah, I'll take some blame.
Eh, I dunno, Canon shooters weren't the ones who were really crying out for that so much, I don't think. (Not that I don't love mine. ) It was actually Canon ramping down from the ol' brass and glass that really lost a lot of us: they were *chasing* the amateur market cause of the Nikon dominance of the 'pro' market of the time: if they hadn't gotten way ahead early on in digital tech, they might still be there.


QuoteQuote:
The definition of snobbism is based on insecurity:
Wikipedia on snob:
The fact that I've never owned a Nikon (even though I did covet the Nikon D90 and now the Nikon D7000 just as I equally covet the Pentax K-5) probably means I suffer from inverse/reverse snobbism .....
especially for the cameras that are more expensive than the K-x -
which means almost all of you.....

So no one is immune.
Eh, I got my K20d and a couple good primes brand new (And, well, the kit lens) pretty much in trade for a couple old Nikkors. A used D70, body only, was the only real competition, and even then it wouldn't work fully with the old AIS glass.

(And Pentax glass was still *really* F'n affordable. I'd been expecting to bootstrap my way in with a K10d or K200d, at the time, but *despite* having a line on some more aforementioned Nikon glass, my little windfall *still* meant the K20d was a real leg up on my upgrade path when d200s were still over a grand. Pentax pretty much dropped me right into top quality glass and a body good for what I needed. It's not like Nikon didn't get a fair shake, there: then Nikonians were comparing their *sixteen hundred* dollar camera to my *six hundred* dollar one, the which I'm still using some years later. )

05-20-2011, 04:20 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lurch Quote
I made the point earlier about Pentax not having anything in the 'Pro' range. I should a) clarify that I meant in comparison to the 1D etc, also b) at a price point. They kind of go straight from the pro-sumer K5 (~$1800AU) straight to the 645d (*drool*, but ~$12000AU) with nothing in between. It's a slot I think they need to cover.
{snip}
Some Canikon user will always look down on not just Pentax, but simply anyone not using a Canikon. IMHO Sony is still too new to the game (although they obviously have the $'s behind them) - but go find a bunch of Olympus users - and they are just as passionate about their kit/brand as us. I guess its just the underdog mentality?
I'd love to have a 645 D. I've considered picking up a 645n, honestly, because they're so freaking cheap, and then gathering lenses (also ridiculously cheap for MF - I saw a 200f4 sell for less than an equivalent 200f4 takumar. WTF?) for eventual use with a 645D. But why bother? It's a CROP SENSOR MF.... (ROFLMAO)

I do love me some Zuiko lenses. I had an OM-1 for a brief period in the early 90s, and they're excellent lenses. Spendy, though, and I don't think they're any *better* than Pentax equivalents. And they don't have Pentax colors. But the 180mm f2 (or was it f1.8? I can't remember) was just freaking amazing.
05-20-2011, 04:29 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
I'd love to have a 645 D. I've considered picking up a 645n, honestly, because they're so freaking cheap, and then gathering lenses (also ridiculously cheap for MF - I saw a 200f4 sell for less than an equivalent 200f4 takumar. WTF?) for eventual use with a 645D. But why bother? It's a CROP SENSOR MF.... (ROFLMAO)

I do love me some Zuiko lenses. I had an OM-1 for a brief period in the early 90s, and they're excellent lenses. Spendy, though, and I don't think they're any *better* than Pentax equivalents. And they don't have Pentax colors. But the 180mm f2 (or was it f1.8? I can't remember) was just freaking amazing.
Speaking of Zuikoes, I should ask again, but one of our community was looking for a decent Zuiko (I think a 50 would do) to go on a copy of a camera he helped design. I'd forgotten, but if you see any, let me know.

As for 645s, I dunno. Nice, but my *real* claim to being a long-time Pentaxian is via the 6x7. Heavy, heavy. I was always saying, 'You're so mean to me, but you make me look good...'


One of those kinda things.
05-20-2011, 04:35 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Speaking of Zuikoes, I should ask again, but one of our community was looking for a decent Zuiko (I think a 50 would do) to go on a copy of a camera he helped design. I'd forgotten, but if you see any, let me know.

As for 645s, I dunno. Nice, but my *real* claim to being a long-time Pentaxian is via the 6x7. Heavy, heavy. I was always saying, 'You're so mean to me, but you make me look good...'


One of those kinda things.
Oooh, loved the Pentax 6x7. We had one in the shop for two years that I borrowed on occasion - it was brassed and bruised, but still worked. Now THAT is some serious "mirror slap". The only camera I ever used that was louder than Broncolor strobes! I loved the 645 because of its handling - almost like a heavy 35mm. Have I mentioned that I've never met a camera I didn't love?

05-20-2011, 04:58 PM   #50
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i never used to see why a person would want two systems...now I do...Ive had recent epiphany that more seasoned photographers would have already concluded...and that is...photography is vastly more about the lenses..than the body that holds them..

pentax have no long fast glass..not even a F2.8 70-200.....a couple of F4 offerings and thats it.....where it does excel is in its DA/FA limited's canikon have nothing to match these...Id seriously look at a pentax body again just to gain access to two or three FA limiteds .

if your into birding or sports..then pentax is not a good fit...

canikon excel in long glass and fast zooms....they also have a very good build quality ..but it all comes with a hefty price tag ..the lenses pentax users must use {sigma /tamron} to fill the long glass gaps..dont come up to the canikon quality ...my nikon 70-200 VR II with a Nikon 1.7x TC is quite something..and without the TC it has MTF scores as high as the best primes .{ but costly }

no doubt that pentax dont market like the other two..that has quite a bit to do with it as well.


also QC plays its part...if my K5 hadn't had the Af issues it suffered from..Id still have it .
05-20-2011, 05:28 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
then Nikonians were comparing their *sixteen hundred* dollar camera to my *six hundred* dollar one, the which I'm still using some years later. )
Since we're raising the stakes on "inverse snobbism" -
I shoot mainly with a compact, and up to a couple years ago a real p&s -
enough that many people joked it was a cell phone.....

Yet most of the time I could not better the results with my then K100D -
$560 with the two kit zooms,
which are still the only Pentax lenses I own and use........

The K-x does show distinct advantage in low available light with HighISO
but even though it is on the inexpensive side -
it was almost twice as expensive as my p&s.

Of course to replace my compact with the latest model would probably cost as much as the current price of the K-x (which is now a bargain)

Even though I really like my K-x and do use it a lot
most of my photos are still on my compact Canon G10 (2 generations old).

My Picasweb album -
I haven't actually counted but well over 15,000 photos pp & posted there since late 2007 mostly on Canon S80, G10 and K100D, then the K-x.

to show how much I do use the K-x
(I'm on shot count 28,985 since Oct/2009) -
Kx in Use ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
05-20-2011, 05:30 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by freehighlander Quote
Apart from the obvious why is there so many users of these Cameras.

I Had a shot of a D90 I think and did not get on with it at all build quality was rubbish and the ergonomics terrible compared to the K7 that I eventualy plumped for.

Is it just a branding advertisement issue or is there something else.

When a freind of mine saw I went Pentaxian over Nikonion he poo pooed my choice.

so is there any insider reason why the prolification on Canikonitus
That thing you have, I hate it.
05-20-2011, 05:37 PM   #53
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I recently shot a youth baseball game with my lowly K100D & Tamron SP 60-300. A guy came over between games that had been wondering about what I was shooting with & we started chatting. When he asked what kind of body I was using & I told him Pentax, he said "cool!". Turns out he uses a Nikon D90.

Another guy I chatted with at a zoo used a big Canon DSLR & he also seemed genuinely interested in what I was using and didn't even vaguely say anything disparaging about my gear. In both cases, we talked mostly about universal photo stuff. What we liked to shoot & where, that kind of stuff.

In my experience, other photographers have been friendly folk who are just happy to have a conversation with someone who shares their hobby.

I think if you encounter someone who looks down their nose at you and ridicules your choice of camera, it's safe to assume:

1) They are an ignorant and rude jackass whose photographic prowess is probably on par with Stevie Wonder's.
2) They're using their big expensive DSLR to compensate for the size of their peen.
3) Both

As for why more people don't own Pentax: Best Buy, Wal-Mart & Target don't carry Pentax, but they do have Nikon & Canon. There just aren't that many Pentax sellers. If Pentax wanted to spend the kind of dough to advertise heavily and push their stuff in the stores, they would be as popular as Canon or Nikon. But you'd also pay more for your camera.

In the end, why worry about it? You've got what you like. Shoot with it & be happy.

Cheers,
Bobbo :-)

05-20-2011, 05:55 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
Since we're raising the stakes on "inverse snobbism" -
I shoot mainly with a compact, and up to a couple years ago a real p&s -
enough that many people joked it was a cell phone.....

To be quite honest, if I'm walking around with my old Lumix FZ-7, people take their cues from the fact I look like I know what I'm doing and assume the *camera* must be something special, not the other way round.

In like wise, if someone thinks my Maniya's a Hassie, I take it as a vote of confidence in my abilities.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 05-20-2011 at 06:14 PM.
05-20-2011, 05:58 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
To be quite honest, if I'm walking around with my old Lumix FZ-7, people take their cues from the fact I look like I know what I'm doing and assume the *camera* must be something special, not the other way round.
Funny. Back in the day I would go on shoots with my EL-M chrome w/chrome T*s and my T-90, and people would oooh and aaah over the Canon, and ask me if the Hasselblad was one of those "Old-timey cameras." I just nodded. Figured if they were gonna rob me, they'd leave the Hassy and take the Canon - which would have been much cheaper and easier to replace for me.
05-20-2011, 06:17 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
Funny. Back in the day I would go on shoots with my EL-M chrome w/chrome T*s and my T-90, and people would oooh and aaah over the Canon, and ask me if the Hasselblad was one of those "Old-timey cameras." I just nodded. Figured if they were gonna rob me, they'd leave the Hassy and take the Canon - which would have been much cheaper and easier to replace for me.
Well, that's the thing about those old brass-and-glass Canons: you need fear no robbers or random marauders, cause you have a big chunk of FTb to cold-cock them with. It makes a pretty disconcerting sound, but doesn't harm the photos.
05-20-2011, 06:39 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by freehighlander Quote

so is there any insider reason why the prolification on Canikonitus
Pentax squandered any advantage they had in the industry about the same time the industry changed to various bayonet mounts and they didn't.
I was selling cameras retail in the mid 1980s to the very early 1990s. This coincided with the shift from manual focus to auto focus.
This is where Pentax really started to fall behind the game.
Pentax did quite well until Minolta came out with the Maxxum 70000, and Canon came out with the EOS 650.
Nikon was behind the game as well at that time, they tagged AF onto their fairly decent N2000, called in the N2020 and prayed.
It was, at best, a Hail Mary, and the receiver missed the catch.

In most respects, Pentax hasn't ever really tried to play catch up since then.
Their AF has always been several steps behind the leader, and while their lenses have always been very good (note that most of the users here are lens junkies), what sells is sizzle, and camera bodies are what provide that.

So, they tried to do it by being the cheap and cheerful alternative in the SLR game, and they actually did pretty well in the film compact game.
Zoom compacts film cameras died an ignoble death, and that was that for Pentax.
Unfortunately, cheap and cheerful only carried them so far, and it carried them into a situation where they either needed a White Knight to save them from doom, or else they were done.

Enter Hoya, who came to their rescue, started making some really good products, fired the QC department to make sure the really good products weren't much good, and started to charge like as if they were making good stuff.

And the bitching and moaning started, since Pentax was the cheap alternative, and the people who had bought in because of it could no longer buy decent equipment for 50 cents on the dollar.


Everyone else was doing really cool stuff, and Pentax was doing what the other guys had done last year (but with better glass).

Pentax is still playing catch up in key consumer areas.

In addition, companies like Nikon were running traveling "schools" and Canon was busy buying various athletes and stage performers to advertise their products.

An unfortunate fact of life is that advertising puts your name in front of the consumer, and if you don't advertise, then people start to wonder if you are still alive.

And there you go.
05-20-2011, 06:49 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Pentax squandered any advantage they had in the industry about the same time the industry changed to various bayonet mounts and they didn't.
I was selling cameras retail in the mid 1980s to the very early 1990s. This coincided with the shift from manual focus to auto focus.
This is where Pentax really started to fall behind the game.
Pentax did quite well until Minolta came out with the Maxxum 70000, and Canon came out with the EOS 650.
Nikon was behind the game as well at that time, they tagged AF onto their fairly decent N2000, called in the N2020 and prayed.
It was, at best, a Hail Mary, and the receiver missed the catch.

In most respects, Pentax hasn't ever really tried to play catch up since then.
Their AF has always been several steps behind the leader, and while their lenses have always been very good (note that most of the users here are lens junkies), what sells is sizzle, and camera bodies are what provide that.

{snip}

And there you go.
Don't you think their willingness to complacently sell K1000's and P30s to school photography classes without pushing the envelope made them... lazy? I mean, for years every kid that signed up for photography class came into our shop and bought a K1000 and a 50mm. All our other (new) Pentax stuff just gathered dust.

One of the guys I worked with back then now has his own camera store; He said here in the US Pentax quit dealing directly with retailers and forced them to go through distributors, which makes the Pentax systems difficult to discount much below MSRP.
05-20-2011, 11:00 PM   #59
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Late to the digital party.First review of a Pentax I read was the K10 in one of those best of annuals.They liked the camera,said it had some admirable qualities but expressed concerns re its success.Imaging,ergonomics were right there but some areas lagged,af,lowlight compared to competitors.Me/last two are big for modern consumers who just want to get the shot.Body wise Hoya/Pentax have lifted their game,if they keep on this arc it can only get better for us.
05-20-2011, 11:07 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
To be quite honest, if I'm walking around with my old Lumix FZ-7, people take their cues from the fact I look like I know what I'm doing and assume the *camera* must be something special, not the other way round.
In like wise, if someone thinks my Maniya's a Hassie, I take it as a vote of confidence in my abilities.
Funny how so much seems to come down to appearance.
I have to assume you do know what you are doing.

But with my p&s cell phone look-a-like -
some people assume I can't possibly know what I'm doing
and insist on giving me advice -
until they find out that the venue's website is actually populated with my photos.

Then again some years back I took just one photo of the oldest living bluesman on his 93rd birthday (plus one safety shot)
and he passed two days later -
that photo (10x8 print) hung on the wall at the venue where it was taken -
then was used as the cover of his posthumous CD -
shot with a 2Mp p&s with no manual controls:

EXIF attached

Mr. Frank Edwards: Chicken Raid (link to CD listing)

Oh -
yes it was a Canon!

Last edited by UnknownVT; 05-20-2011 at 11:42 PM.
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