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05-23-2011, 10:49 PM   #106
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This may sound cliche, but I say use what works for you, no matter what brand or camera that may be. Me, I chose Pentax because I like the quality and I think they give you a lot better value for your money, and since I'm one of those Middle Class people (sadly, we're endangered), I don't have unlimited funds I am fairly new to the SLR and DSLR World, but I think I found a good home, the Pentax Hilton

05-23-2011, 11:12 PM - 1 Like   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
Well, it is not that simple. The domination is mostly in the amteur market (yes in the professional too, but that is just a very small margin of DSLR's out there)
People buy the brands they see professionals use. They look on TV and see some guys shooting at a game with Canon and then they get into the store and they pick ... <gasp> ... Canon! That's why winning the professional market is important. Because most customers are like kids - they follow up what the "adults" do - and the adults are the pros they see bringing money home.

And I don't expect glass investment is such a big deal for most pros. Only amateurs invest heavily into lenses. Pro guys usually are specialized and can't afford to change lenses and miss moments, so they have a few fast zooms and that's it. You can be sure that if Pentax would come up with a system offering them faster and more intelligent AF, better metering, and higher ISO performance than anyone else, they would sell their stuff and get the better equipment - because they make money from being efficient, so they need the tools that make them most efficient - those tools will pay for themselves in the long run.
05-23-2011, 11:15 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
People buy the brands they see professionals use. They look on TV and see some guys shooting at a game with Canon and then they get into the store and they pick ... <gasp> ... Canon! That's why winning the professional market is important. Because most customers are like kids - they follow up what the "adults" do - and the adults are the pros they see bringing money home.

And I don't expect glass investment is such a big deal for most pros. Only amateurs invest heavily into lenses. Pro guys usually are specialized and can't afford to change lenses and miss moments, so they have a few fast zooms and that's it. You can be sure that if Pentax would come up with a system offering them faster and more intelligent AF, better metering, and higher ISO performance than anyone else, they would sell their stuff and get the better equipment - because they make money from being efficient, so they need the tools that make them most efficient - those tools will pay for themselves in the long run.
+1, excellent points. There are still 'brand zealots' amongst pros, but the more successful pros I've met were all about "Will it allow me to do my job better?".
05-23-2011, 11:22 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote

p.s. If only Paul Simon had owned a Pentax rather than a Nikon... Things could be vastly different today.
Who really knows? They still took our Kodachrome away.

05-24-2011, 03:40 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
And the 645d is a studio machine, really; not that you can't take it on location, but it's really designed for commercial photographers that have strobe systems and a site crew. If I were still a commercial photographer, I'd be all over the 645d.

.....
Actually the 645D is designed to be used anywhere a smaller DSLR could be used... And since it's weather sealed, it could be the perfect camera for landscape shooters (though it's unlikely that Pentax will bring out weather sealed 645 lenses. )
05-24-2011, 05:20 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Actually the 645D is designed to be used anywhere a smaller DSLR could be used... And since it's weather sealed, it could be the perfect camera for landscape shooters (though it's unlikely that Pentax will bring out weather sealed 645 lenses. )
Aren't all new DA 645 lenses weather sealed?
05-24-2011, 05:38 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Aren't all new DA 645 lenses weather sealed?
Well... knock me down with a feather. I didn't know Pentax had come out with new lenses for the 645D. Last I'd heard (but frankly I haven't been keeping up that close since I can't afford a 645D anyway) the only lenses were film 645 vintage.

Funny thing is the 2 "new" lenses (25mm and 55mm) are just what most landscape shooters like in MF... Way to go Pentax!

Mike
05-24-2011, 05:41 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by SoCalRailRoadGuy Quote
This may sound cliche, but I say use what works for you, no matter what brand or camera that may be. Me, I chose Pentax because I like the quality and I think they give you a lot better value for your money, and since I'm one of those Middle Class people (sadly, we're endangered), I don't have unlimited funds I am fairly new to the SLR and DSLR World, but I think I found a good home, the Pentax Hilton
I'm in that endangered group too, but I can't afford Hilton. I guess I'm more of a Pentel 6 kinda guy. Oh, and be sure to leave that light on. I shoot with a K-7 so high ISO scares me!

05-24-2011, 06:23 AM   #114
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Regarding the 645D, I've seen a Pentax-produced video of a photographer using it handheld, and it looks surprisingly easy to manage. It strikes me as a very versatile machine.

That said, it still strikes me as odd that there is a "professional" gap between prosumer and advanced professional. My guess is that, since Pentax arrived late to the digital SLR party, they are still struggling to achieve market penetration. Their two consumer-grade products hit the market from one side (as will the anticipated mirrorless model). The 645D hits it from the other side. I imagine that, if they get the numbers they want/need, they will eventually produce a full-frame model. It could be years, though. All speculation, of course.

Really, I don't know what they are thinking. Nobody does, except for them.
05-24-2011, 06:44 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Designosophy Quote
Regarding the 645D, I've seen a Pentax-produced video of a photographer using it handheld, and it looks surprisingly easy to manage. It strikes me as a very versatile machine.
I've never used one, but I've held one in my hand - it feels very much like the 645n, I think, which was an eminently usable machine. I mean, you don't want to use one for sports, but anything else is fair game. I took one home from the shop once for a week and it wasn't appreciably different than using my Canon equipment, handling-wise. I think they have a chance to do something really impressive, and I'm contemplating collecting a set of 645 lenses in preparation
05-24-2011, 06:51 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by Designosophy Quote
Regarding the 645D, I've seen a Pentax-produced video of a photographer using it handheld, and it looks surprisingly easy to manage. It strikes me as a very versatile machine.

That said, it still strikes me as odd that there is a "professional" gap between prosumer and advanced professional. My guess is that, since Pentax arrived late to the digital SLR party, they are still struggling to achieve market penetration. Their two consumer-grade products hit the market from one side (as will the anticipated mirrorless model). The 645D hits it from the other side. I imagine that, if they get the numbers they want/need, they will eventually produce a full-frame model. It could be years, though. All speculation, of course.

Really, I don't know what they are thinking. Nobody does, except for them.

After the LX, Pentax really didn't compete in the 35mm Pro grade game, there AF was a couple of generations behind Canon for one, and nikon though also late to the AF game pursued it much more vigourosly. Pentax was relegated to amateur uses with the exception of the pro presence in 645 and 6x7. At the time of course aside from journalist/sports shooters Medium format was the preferred pro route and they were quite successful in that arena.

The 645d would be a good wedding kit (like the film gear was) but the wedding market has gone to FF canon and nikon as they were there long before the 645d came out. they also are less expensive which helps.

I think Pentax needs a FF option that falls in the middle someplace, but there are a lot of other issues that need to be addressed before they can compete there (distribution, pro level warranty service, Rental distribution, and some lens lengths) While I think anyone serious should have a backup system (ie at least 2 bodies capable of doing the job) fast service turnaround is important to the pro market. the ability to go rent a product is as well. you may not need a large fast (ei 400mm lens) enough to justify the cost of ownership but you may need it occasionally....there is also the travel idea, rather than bringing all your gear to a shoot in another major city, it may make sense to rent some of it locally.
the 645D while a high end product i would think misses out on most of this currently as well, though i imagine that could change with time and a broad enough user base
05-24-2011, 06:55 AM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I think Pentax needs a FF option that falls in the middle someplace, but there are a lot of other issues that need to be addressed before they can compete there (distribution, pro level warranty service, Rental distribution, and some lens lengths)
The problem with FF is not pro support but the lack of market penetration for FF. As long as FF have 5% of the DSLR market, Pentax have no chance to be competitive or sell an FF camera in sufficient volume.
05-24-2011, 07:02 AM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
The problem with FF is not pro support but the lack of market penetration for FF. As long as FF have 5% of the DSLR market, Pentax have no chance to be competitive or sell an FF camera in sufficient volume.
there is that as well, and a good proportion of those are not to pro users per se but to amateurs with the money who buy based on name recognition not on will this camera do what i need it to do for the budget i have mindset a pro would take.
I like the idea of a FF camera, but in my case an apsc will do what i need a camera to do, the only thing i really miss by my choice of Pentax is the lens rental aspect as a couple of times a year i could use a lens i don't own. if I lived in the USA this wouldn't be an issue as i could book through an online rental, but there is no rental option in Canada. If I shot Canon, Nikon, Mamiya/Phase One or Hassleblad I could walk to 2 different rental shops withing 10 minutes - as it sits i just use them for lighting and make do with what i own.
05-24-2011, 07:05 AM   #119
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BTW one of those rentals used to rent Pentax 645 and 67 they did away with it a couple of years before the 645D came out in favour of Phase one/Mamiya and hassleblad, as the film gear rentals had dropped off almost completely. Perhaps they will get back into it with the 645d out, but I doubt it they didn't even pick up the camera (probably because stock has been so limited), though they do carry the apsc lineup.
05-24-2011, 07:17 AM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Trouble is, the average camera enthusiast who is researching digital SLRs would not know a medium format camera from a hole in the ground. Canon and Nikon just happen to be brands that everyone has heard about... and in a vacuum a buyer will purchase something they've heard about 9 out of 10 times... Mike


good point but that isn't the market the 645D is geared towards. I know a few professional photographers that are dumping their canon 1 series cameras like yesterdays rancid gumbah pudding in favour of the 645D - that's what i'm doing. Though I'm keeping my Nikon D3s for wildlife and sporting photography - and my Leica M9 because I think it would be a very good backup camera for a 645D - small and compact with ne-plus-ultra lenses and it's very quiet. I'll keep my K10D and K7 - they have already paid for themselves with the number of prints I have sold.
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