[Billy]

... but right here, right now, for what I need on vacation the Tamron 18-250mm Di II does it all, with virtually no apparent compromises...

This sounds just like my thoughts, as a beginner I have no idea what lens to use for what picture and when I should change them, so if I have one lens that does pretty much everything then as far as I'm concerned that's a winner.
I'll certainly need a zoom lens, so why not get a zoom lens right away.
I really don't want to have to lug an extra bag just with camera equipment in. Believe me my rucksacks are heavy enough as they are, and if I take the baby hiking then I have him on my back too, so I simply don't have neither the space, time nor desire to pack an extra ton of lenses. Especially so if I would need to swap lenses in bad weather.
Much of life is a compromise, so I think my first compromise will be to keep things as simple as possible and get the 18-250 Richard, James and Miserere recommend.
Thanks again to everyone for helping me up the steep learning curve!

[Billy]

... and I want a one-lens does practically all for our trips.

Same here. But first, one more question!
The K10D is weather proof - but are the lenses weather proof too?

Or do i need to get a special lens so that both the body and lens are rain and sand proof??

[m8o]

Same here. But first, one more question!
The K10D is weather proof - but are the lenses weather proof too?

only Pentax DA* lenses is my understanding... someone had once wrote the Sigma EX series are too. I hadn't questioned that and I bought the 300mm f/2.8 in small part with that thinking instead of an older FA or FA* to take to Tanzania, which is extremely dusty. But I don't believe so now as there's no mention of 'weather' or 'seal' on their lens overview page. I'll be asking them directly when I bring the lens in for a cleaning, as the aperture loosened so dust definitely got in.

[Snowcat]

Hello, Billy!

I am willing to add mu piece of info, and hope it will help... I had the very same dilemma as you are having just 2 weeks ago. K10D or E510? I was thinking about it day and night. reading countless reviews, forums, viewing samples. At last i bought Samsung GX-10 (which is rebadged K10D, exavtly the same camera, even made on the same fab, having just different-styled buttons). This is my first DSLR, and i tried it for these 2 weeks, so here i can say that, for a SLR-beginner as i am, seemed good or bad about it.

Ok first are the goodies The build quality is excellent, and it feels perfect in the hand. It's rather heavy weight i see as a good thing actually. The optical viewfinder is comfortable, and rather large. The overall handling of the camera is logical and easy, nothing is hidden where you cannot expect it, all is in it's place. The image quality is great (NOTE! See below in what i did not like about this too), sharpness is enormous for 10MP cameras, much sharper then Nikon D80 and D200. The colors are (from my point fo view) are much better then on Canon DSLRs of this price range. Nikons and SONYs have the same colors, as they have the same sensor.

What I don't care for. This camera has to be tamed. I mean you cannot get it out of the box, charge the battery and take great pics. Actually if you'll do that, you'll be greatly diappointed, as was I. You have to tweak in-camera settings to match your view of a good image quality, and you have to learn how to use other modes, then P.

And now, what i did not like. First thing that bother me after having Panasonic FZ-30 (which has VERY good in-camera processor, doing many things for you) is that i have to tweak somehow (more or less) outdoors photoes before i can show them to someone. I am used to good out-of-the-camera pictures, with corrected shadows, etc. Pentax does nothing like that, so quite typically, if you have sky and a house on the same picture, the house will be darkened to leave the sky color natural, and you'll have to tweak shadows later in photoshop or other program. And the second thing, auto White Balance in this camera is not very good. If often makes wrong calcualtions, and requires corrections later.

Both things that I concider to be bad are not a issue if you are comfortable with shooting RAW files, as you have to anyway tweak them for colors, shadows and WB. I, however, am not yet adopted RAW shooting as my primary, maybe i will in time...

So, as a conclusion... K10D is great, even perhaps the best 10MP DSLR under $1000, even under $1700 or so, in terms of picture quality. However, think about post-processing MOST of the pictures, think are you ready for it or no. Olympus E-510 will give a little less quality in pictures and a little more noise, true, but it's out-of-the-camera pictures require little to no post-processing, which i see as it's main actual benefit.

Am I happy I've chosen Pentax system over Olympus? Well... Honestly, I am still not sure. But well, I already jumped in, so I hope I'll like it in the end lol

---

Last edited by Snowcat; 11-17-2007 at 01:31 PM.

[Billy]

Hi Snowcat,
Thanks for taking the time to contribute.
Well, can I be bothered to mess about in photoshop tweaking every image from a weekend trip? Hmm, probably not, as an IT guy I spend my life sat in front of a screen so the more time away from one the better in my book!
Can you define favourite settings for say landscapes, to replicate the Scene modes that the Olympus has? I really wish Pentax had included Scene modes for dummies like me, advanced users can switch them off or ignore them if they want but to get up and running I think that Scene modes are a great help.
If you get time, please keep posting as you get used to the K10 - I have till Christmas to order mine

[m8o]

fyi, just a side note for both, Photoshop is overkill and cumbersome for basic 'fast workflow' out-of-camera processing of RAW or even JPG ... you'd do well (and save much money) to use Adobe LightRoom, or LightZone by Light Crafts. Photoshop is better utilized for more advanced artistic processing or targetted processing of sections of the pic instead.

I personally think K10D has very good WB operation in sunlight and florecent, but incandecent WB is very yellow cast; though you can adjust that which is great. Yes, K10D is a tweeker's delight; down-side is tweeking is mandatory for optimal results. I have decided to shoot RAW exclusively and don't regret it (Lightroom's WB adjust is great), other then the time needed to go through and 'perfect' each keeper for my mood @ the time.

[Snowcat]

M8o, thanks for advice, i'll try Lightroom and LightZone... I am using photoshop just because i am used to it, i worked with it since version 3, but maybe other programs can be actually better and faster for photo-importing.

[Confused]

Hi Miserere

Re your comment:

We are not going to be friends, you and I

Aw, c'mon, don't be such a bad loser. Life's too short etc !

I've just had this amazing brainwave. Why don't you save yourself some money and simply gaffa-tape the 18-55mm to the front of your 50-200m ? Just imagine all the admiring looks you'll receive from stunned onlookers !
Getting this contraption into your camera bag in one piece might be more problematic though......

Best regards
Richard

Just some input:

- two friends of mine have Olympus cameras (E-500s actually), and they do produce nice jpeg images with no PP.

- the 18-250 Tamron or Pentax lenses do offe the best compromise for the beginner or those who wish to travel light, but as you gain confidence with the equipment you may find that there are some photographic situations where they are not ideal. This does not make them a bad choice, just a great beginning.

The K10D is a very good choice of camera because it offers lots of romm for growth on a budget, Olympus lenses can be quite expensive. As for scene modes, I never use them.

Ira

[Miserere]

Hi Miserere

Re your comment:



Aw, c'mon, don't be such a bad loser. Life's too short etc !

I've just had this amazing brainwave. Why don't you save yourself some money and simply gaffa-tape the 18-55mm to the front of your 50-200m ? Just imagine all the admiring looks you'll receive from stunned onlookers !
Getting this contraption into your camera bag in one piece might be more problematic though......

Best regards
Richard

Wow Richard, that seems like a great idea! Thanks!!!!

[Snowcat]

Well, time passes, and I occasionally make some photoes here and there... And I get used to the camera more and more. And actually I am happy I've chosen Pentax, because of few things, that are not obvious in the beginning, that became visible now...

ISO 1600 is quite usable. No post-processing at all!


Colors are nice and accurate


Anti-shake, though said to be less effective then Olympuse's one, is still VERY effective, I have a totally sharp pic taken at F=93mm (like 138mm EFR) with shutter speed 1/8 sec!

So, yes, the camera IS a bit too hard to master it (if it is your first DSLR), but it's well worth the efforts, and time!

[Josel]

Buddy, the K10D has no scene modes, not one in the dial or LCD menus. You might consider the K100D Super, like I did. You can set the exposure settings on both cameras, but for some really quick decisions, you can just turn the dial to "SCN" on the K100D or the K100D Super, which the K10D doesn't have.

[Josel]

I purchased the K100D Super on circuitcity.com on the very same day I saw the E-510 Open Box sale at a Circuit City here in San Diego. The E-510 was very tempting, at $469 it comes with two kit lens, the standard 14-44mm and the zoom, for an open box it looked new. But the availability of used 4/3 lenses got me thinking and I don't like the jaggies on Olympus cameras (dcresource.com). I'm happy with my Pentax. Lots of primes selling on craiglist and ebay.

[JamesD]

Snowcat... loved both images... particularly the ISO 1600 shot of the building. I've yet to shoot above ISO 400 but now I'm encouraged to try some. What is the building, if I might ask? Opera house? Ballet? Stock Exchange?

[Snowcat]

Buddy, the K10D has no scene modes, not one in the dial or LCD menus. You might consider the K100D Super, like I did. You can set the exposure settings on both cameras, but for some really quick decisions, you can just turn the dial to "SCN" on the K100D or the K100D Super, which the K10D doesn't have.

Well scene modes are nothing that cannot be "emulated" with your own hands... Even on my previous camera I never used them, preferring to use manual corrections. In time you get used to the camera and set right exposure corrections in different situations very quickly

Snowcat... loved both images... particularly the ISO 1600 shot of the building. I've yet to shoot above ISO 400 but now I'm encouraged to try some. What is the building, if I might ask? Opera house? Ballet? Stock Exchange?

Thanks, James, this is... (um... this is where my English meets its limits lol) well it is a central exhibitions hall in Moscow, different art exhibitions are held there, as well as some IT ones, usch as Intel's and Microsoft's yearly forums.