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06-13-2011, 01:01 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by jcp5 Quote
I think the answer is they should hire "aurele" He looks like a guy with great vision and he's French. What's better than that!
Come on, i know what you, american, are thinking about us, french people. But just notice that with that kind of comment, i just think you are a moron, and thank god, all americans are not like you. Having said that, let's be back to our main subject.

I don't know either why the f*** Pentax doesn't do more ads for their gear. For exemple the W90 is one of the best seller in compact, here in europe, even if there isn't lots of ads for it.
Guess what it could be if Pentax do some more, like C&N ? Same for the K5 !

everyone who have study a bit marketing and stuff like that knows that advertising is the key for good sells, even if it's crisis period...

Concerning the fact that Hoya is focused on Japan, and not the rest of the world, see for example the 645D system. Pentax show in April a roadmap with all lenses that will be build, until 2014. Why didn't they told the world specialize press ?

06-13-2011, 08:34 PM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
For starters, an area AF system uses a dense grid of AF points, of the type used on professional cameras from Canon and Nikon, as opposed to more widely spaced points found on entry-level and most mid-range models. This type of AF system was first introduced on the Canon EOS-3 35mm SLR camera, delivering an unheard-of 45 AF points (7 cross-type) in a world where no more than five points were commonly seen. For Canon, this type of AF system is only found on professional models; for Nikon, a 39-point (9 cross-type) Multi-CAM 4800DX is present in the D7000 - the first time an area AF system was ever introduced in an mid-range DSLR - with the more advanced 51-point (15 cross-type) Multi-CAM 3500DX/FX systems found in higher models.

This type of AF system is able to use a large group of points simultaneously instead of just one or two to focus on a subject. This also means that the system can track moving subjects with far greater accuracy and speed than a conventional AF system. Unfortunately, only Canon and Nikon offer this type of AF system, and PENTAX AF technology has historically been short of the performance that C&N have delivered over the years (although significantly improved with SAFOX IX). With that in mind, what should PENTAX do with regard to autofocus? Do you believe that PENTAX can develop this technology for use in a future camera? If so, how should PENTAX do it? If successfully implemented, how great do you think the benefit will be? I personally feel that PENTAX should start with about 25-30 points, with the center cluster cross-type, and develop new, more advanced predictive focus tracking algorithms. What are your thoughts on area AF for PENTAX?

--DragonLord
No the finest dSLRs in the world use much less AF points than 25... You are looking at models for sports that don't always get the last word in MTF sharpness.


It seems to be good enough for a $10,000 (USA) dSLR the 645D! Why more?

Well we know Canon and Nikon make cameras for sport photographers and this AF technology is trickling down to consumer models. Pentax long ago decided to go with a more accurate AF system. This is debatable and is debated! Its a highly argued statement. However...

In no reviews will you find folks who test dSLRs out there say the Pentax is not accurate; they say its very accurate. The new K-5 will also do as Canon and trade some accuracy for speed with its new AF feature. But its still highly accurate. Just think what people who by a $10,000 expect of performance. This system meets that performance. In order for Canon to AF quickly it has been said it does not take the time as Pentax AF to double check and make sure AF is locked on. If you read Canons forum you will see a pattern of AF problems with the 7D!

Do this Google "Canon 7D autofocus problems" you will see current talks about continuous problems since the camera came out. And its not the only Canon with such problems of late.

Do this Google "Nikon D7000 autofocus problems"

Do this Google "Pentax K-5 autofocus problems"

You will find tons of problems with the first two cameras above and very few with the Pentax.

I can't stress enough the thought that the award winning Pentax 645D a $10,000(USA) camera uses the same AF system with superb results on a super high resolution sensor that is extremely demanding of autofocus. Lets say it like this. Anecdotal evidence shows that all auto-focus systems seem to have trade offs. In the K-5 we would all love to point the thing at a fast small house sparrow and have it track it flawless. Truth is no AF can do that.

Do this, go lurk around Canons 7D or Nikons D7000 forum (as I have) and then Pentax K-5. What are your findings?

Here is what DPR said-

"
The K-5's AF system is new, and Pentax's claims that it is faster and more accurate than the system used in the K-7 are bourne out in our shooting. It has the same SAFOX IX+ designation that is carried in the medium format Pentax 645D, - the 'x' denoting that the AF sensor is sensitive to light color, as well as intensity.

Whilst we do not have a specific testing regimen for AF, we have used the K-5 extensively, and we have found that its AF system is extremely capable, in both bright and very low ambient lighting conditions. In the dull interiors of bars and museums, the K-5 doesn't give 100% accuracy, but out of the hundreds of frames which we shot, only a handful are marred by focus errors. Autofocus acquisition is extremely fast and positive, with both conventional screw-driven AF lenses and SDM (ultrasonic-type) optics."

See the 645D with its super high resolution needs an AF system that is accurate above all else. The K-5 is just that and other Pentax models. They do have predictive AF tracking. However you should buy for what your needs are if you think more AF points will let you track better, try it. Again it must be said it is argued Pentax SAFOX is the most accurate AF system. Hard to say its not when its used in such a high resolution camera with super results!

I of course showed you even the K20D can track BIF. Many PROS don't shoot on sidelines, they shoot outdoors in nature, city, landscapes or in the studio. Nikon/Canon sport models are only but a part of PRO photography as a whole.

Bottom line. The photographer and lens makes more of a difference than the auto-focus system when all is said and done. Get to know your camera. Its abilities are much higher than you may know.


https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/147233-safox-ix-pr...-tracking.html

Last edited by jamesm007; 06-14-2011 at 04:57 AM.
06-13-2011, 09:25 PM   #18
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There was a discussion locally about Pentax focus on WR and some of us felt that it's a least of requirement most of the times. Kind of weather I live in, I would like more performance camera than WR itself. Not sure how much less it would cost, but I believe would be significant and this could open more door for Hoya. Imagine, the k-5 kind of camera without WR at significantly lower cost than D7K would be potentially attractive to many buyers (like Nikon did with D5100). This is a kind of strategies Pentax need to get into to get more users, more revenue and hence able to put more resources in developing more capable camera.
06-14-2011, 04:38 AM   #19
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I'm not sure what to say then. I only wish HOYA/PENTAX would develop more advanced technologies so that it can compete better with Canon and Nikon, and better AF is one of those technologies.

--DragonLord

06-14-2011, 04:58 AM   #20
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To be able to compete with Canon/nikon, a good AF will not help. Pentax would have to come with something revolutionary that will change photography, and have a patent on it.
I've had that co-workers asked what camera their son should get for surfing and traveling. I said get either the K-7 or K5. As they are weathersealed, I use a K-7 for surf, and it works perfectly. They eighted off camera's. and at the End went for a CAnon 500D. And you know why? Because their friends also had Canons.
06-14-2011, 05:17 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
And you know why? Because their friends also had Canons.
Which is a valid reason, provided the friends do have lots of expensive lenses and they are willing to borrow them.
06-14-2011, 05:20 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
I'm not sure what to say then. I only wish HOYA/PENTAX would develop more advanced technologies so that it can compete better with Canon and Nikon, and better AF is one of those technologies.

--DragonLord


Can you believe, I believed for two years the K20D could not shoot BIF because I read the Pentax system was too slow and that we needed a system like in the D300 or D90! Well I should not have believed that!

Pentax K-5 is not to compete for sports pros. The D7000 is not for sports pros. But the same K-5 system is in a award winning, highly wanted $10,000USA camera. Does that not say something?
06-14-2011, 05:26 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
Can you believe, I believed for two years the K20D could not shoot BIF because I read the Pentax system was too slow and that we needed a system like in the D300 or D90! Well I should not have believed that!

Pentax K-5 is not to compete for sports pros. The D7000 is not for sports pros. But the same K-5 system is in a award winning, highly wanted $10,000USA camera. Does that not say something?
No it doesn't say anything. It is all about the brand, that is what matters 99% of the time when people buy something.
And sadly for Pentax in photography it is Canon and Nikon (for now)

06-14-2011, 10:46 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote

Do this Google "Canon 7D autofocus problems"

Do this Google "Nikon D7000 autofocus problems"

Do this Google "Pentax K-5 autofocus problems"

You will find tons of problems with the first two cameras above and very few with the Pentax.
This is not a good comparison. The volume of sales and therefore owners of the 7D and D7000 far exceed those of the K-5. So you might be getting a proportional amount of people complaining about their auto focus in relation to how many cameras are out there. This would obviously skew the total.

Also, since there are so many more owners of Canon and Nikon (and Pentax is known for having "photographer's cameras"), you will at the margin have a certain segment of those owners (perhaps very sizeable) who simply don't know what they are doing and are complaining accordingly.

Not saying there aren't legitimate complaints about Canon and Nikon.....just that they may not be representative of actual unmitigated problems with the cameras.
06-14-2011, 11:02 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
No it doesn't say anything. It is all about the brand, that is what matters 99% of the time when people buy something.
And sadly for Pentax in photography it is Canon and Nikon (for now)
No, it's sad that people care about this. As long as Pentax can stay afloat and produce quality equipment that discerning buyers can still purchase, who cares where they rank in sales?

I LOVE that they are a niche company that doesn't cater to the advertising whims and the lemming-like following of the afore mentioned competitors. That's EXACTLY why I was drawn to them. Simply put, I don't want what everyone else has. As long as they keep making quality products that deliver the results I need, I will continue to buy them......and evidently there are enough Pentax owners to keep them going. You don't have to sell huge volumes to be successful and you don't have to sell your soul to compete in the market place.

So, in a sense it IS all about the brand.....but for entirely different reasons. There's something unique and satisfying about a relatively exclusive fraternity of like-minded people who feel the same way.
06-14-2011, 12:39 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by ccd333 Quote
Also, since there are so many more owners of Canon and Nikon (and Pentax is known for having "photographer's cameras"), you will at the margin have a certain segment of those owners (perhaps very sizeable) who simply don't know what they are doing and are complaining accordingly.
Despite I do use Canon as well I'm not a big fan of it so I do not follow so many Canon forums. But given the fact how much the Canon AF sucks (except the 1D series) there are surprisingly few complaints about that.
Where is the difference? They invest time and effort to learn to use the camera with its limitations. Most Pentax folks invest the time in rants, searching for flaws on their cameras, complaining on the internets and finding excuses why can't they make a proper photo.
Of course not everyone is like that, but the percentage of these "analyzers" is very high among Pentaxians.
06-14-2011, 02:48 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ccd333 Quote
This is not a good comparison. The volume of sales and therefore owners of the 7D and D7000 far exceed those of the K-5. So you might be getting a proportional amount of people complaining about their auto focus in relation to how many cameras are out there. This would obviously skew the total.

Also, since there are so many more owners of Canon and Nikon (and Pentax is known for having "photographer's cameras"), you will at the margin have a certain segment of those owners (perhaps very sizeable) who simply don't know what they are doing and are complaining accordingly.

Not saying there aren't legitimate complaints about Canon and Nikon.....just that they may not be representative of actual unmitigated problems with the cameras.
I know that and assumed the reader would as well. That's why I said go lurk in the Canon 7D and Nikon D7000 forums and see what you find for AF. I am not being a smart-a I really did see that coming and that's why I added the do the research part.
06-14-2011, 03:07 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by elho_cid Quote
Despite I do use Canon as well I'm not a big fan of it so I do not follow so many Canon forums. But given the fact how much the Canon AF sucks (except the 1D series) there are surprisingly few complaints about that.
Where is the difference? They invest time and effort to learn to use the camera with its limitations. Most Pentax folks invest the time in rants, searching for flaws on their cameras, complaining on the internets and finding excuses why can't they make a proper photo.
Of course not everyone is like that, but the percentage of these "analyzers" is very high among Pentaxians.
You may be on to something. Since owning a Canon means there can be nothing wrong with the AF it must be the user. This forces the user to learn, as I had to learn, how to use the gear. Heck it took me a year just to learn how to get near a 100% hit rate on static objects. Coming from P/S I was use to just that - point and shoot. I had to learn the phase AF system may not see what you think it sees. I had to learn and it took time. I stayed with Pentax and have no real regrets the gear has served me well. Nothing wrong with Canon or Nikon as well. But as you say take whatever you have be it P/S or all out PRO dSLR and learn how to use that camera; to take the pics you have in mind, only you the user are the limit.

Yes grated if being paid big dollars at the NBA finales you probably need an all out PRO Nikon or Canon. Yes granted if your doing high paid landscape work, or studio work you may need an expensive Pentax 645D. But for the rest of us, just have fun and enjoy what you have knowing its you that limit the camera its true
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