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12-18-2006, 08:03 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
A not-so-interesting fact: I bought my *ist DS because of Phil's review, which was negative in nearly the same way as his K10 review.

55,000 photographs later, I bought the K10.
I haven't considered *ist DS because of Phil's review. And bought it just because I *needed* DSLR and my local shop couldn't get Nikon D70 by the time I needed DSLR.

Guess what -- none of the Phil's mentioned problems and cons were problems for me. However other things which Phil didn't mention popped up -- with DA 16-45 my DS almost all the time was underexposing, then I encountered that Auto ISO does not work when EV compensation is used (and I needed to use it because of 16-45 underexposure). So, completely different things bugged me.

Now I have K10D for a couple of weeks. Picture quality is just stunning. Exposure system works like a charm. Ergonomics superb. Dream camera. I am very happy that I am not dependent on dpreview rating as some other are. And I am sorry for those who said "no" to this exceptional camera just because one reviewer didn't like it very much.

I managed to find just two minor annoying things in my K10D:
1) in bright day it blows out highlights (such as clouds in the sky etc.) more than I'd like to, I prefer to have no blown highlights in my picture and later do some "fill light" to bring out shadows. But it still better than the competition. I compared Phil K10D samples to D80 samples and D80 with -0,7EV applied blows highlights more than K10D with 0EV does. I imagine that blown highlights would be real pain in th a** whith D80 or a100.
2) poor auto WB performance in artificial lighting. While *istDS AWB was quite acceptable in those conditions I really don't like K10Ds yellowish WB. Pentax could have done much better in this area.

12-18-2006, 10:01 PM   #62
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I don't care about the review, I am amused by some of the comments though.

I have my K10D for nearly three weeks and my DS for over two years but I think that most people that have got their backs up because for seemingly the same or even better performance and features the K10D gets smart arse comments through the review where other cameras simply stand on their numbers. Then Phil starts with the comments in the forums that are seemingly to bait people. Don't forget he threatened to not post the K100D review because there was a lot of people asking for it because it had taken so long and then the K10D review takes only a few days and it has the funny comments in the review. Anyway I am pretty busy with getting ready for guests over Christmas so I better get back to it.
12-18-2006, 10:04 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
2) poor auto WB performance in artificial lighting. While *istDS AWB was quite acceptable in those conditions I really don't like K10Ds yellowish WB. Pentax could have done much better in this area.
I found this to be true too. Shot under flourescent light, set in different flourescent modes, as a test and got poor yellowish AWB. But, in camera I put a blue filter to the photo and it came out dandy. This doesn't fix Pentax's K10 problem and maybe it could be fixed with a firmware update but for now it might do for you as a work around.
12-18-2006, 10:16 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
I managed to find just two minor annoying things in my K10D:
1) in bright day it blows out highlights (such as clouds in the sky etc.) more than I'd like to, I prefer to have no blown highlights in my picture and later do some "fill light" to bring out shadows. But it still better than the competition. I compared Phil K10D samples to D80 samples and D80 with -0,7EV applied blows highlights more than K10D with 0EV does. I imagine that blown highlights would be real pain in th a** whith D80 or a100.
Yes it has been VERY bright here of late and in mixed scenery I tend to have to use EV -0.5 too, (nice and easy with the front dial linked to ev adjust in Av mode)

12-18-2006, 10:34 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by clarenceclose Quote
I found this to be true too. Shot under flourescent light, set in different flourescent modes, as a test and got poor yellowish AWB. But, in camera I put a blue filter to the photo and it came out dandy. This doesn't fix Pentax's K10 problem and maybe it could be fixed with a firmware update but for now it might do for you as a work around.
Agree with the AWB needs to be fixed. You can either shout RAW and adjust later or do a manual WB setting for where you are shooting.
12-18-2006, 11:48 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
I haven't considered *ist DS because of Phil's review. And bought it just because I *needed* DSLR and my local shop couldn't get Nikon D70 by the time I needed DSLR.
I bought my DS regardless of what Phil said. I tried it myself and compared the photos against those from my D. It is a no-brainer.

And since I've so many Pentax lenses which I love, I have no choice.

I sold my D shortly I have used my "new" DS and confirm that I no longer need the D.

QuoteQuote:
Guess what -- none of the Phil's mentioned problems and cons were problems for me. However other things which Phil didn't mention popped up -- with DA 16-45 my DS almost all the time was underexposing, then I encountered that Auto ISO does not work when EV compensation is used (and I needed to use it because of 16-45 underexposure).
But I did mention these two problems at Dpreview forum at the DS days, but.. (you know what happened! - ..I was bashed to death!)

QuoteQuote:
Now I have K10D for a couple of weeks. Picture quality is just stunning. Exposure system works like a charm. Ergonomics superb. Dream camera. I am very happy that I am not dependent on dpreview rating as some other are. And I am sorry for those who said "no" to this exceptional camera just because one reviewer didn't like it very much.
The exposure system seems the same as the K100D or maybe even the DS, would it just be a coincidence. I bet you may need to use your K10 for longer before you can come up with something rock solid.

QuoteQuote:
I managed to find just two minor annoying things in my K10D:
1) in bright day it blows out highlights (such as clouds in the sky etc.) more than I'd like to, I prefer to have no blown highlights in my picture and later do some "fill light" to bring out shadows. But it still better than the competition. I compared Phil K10D samples to D80 samples and D80 with -0,7EV applied blows highlights more than K10D with 0EV does. I imagine that blown highlights would be real pain in th a** whith D80 or a100.
Blown highlight is a limitation for *all* digital cameras. So, I don't agree it is an "annoying thing of the K10" alone.

QuoteQuote:
2) poor auto WB performance in artificial lighting. While *istDS AWB was quite acceptable in those conditions I really don't like K10Ds yellowish WB. Pentax could have done much better in this area.
Ditto. A non-issue when shooting RAW. WB based on the principle of "the whiter is better" simply won't apply for DSLRs.

Furthermore, I do find that the AWB of my K100D is more consistent than my DS (which do produce very different WB for the same series of shots). I don't know how the K10 would be. But again, I think you may need more time to come up with a final conclusion.
12-19-2006, 08:01 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
I haven't considered *ist DS because of Phil's review. And bought it just because I *needed* DSLR and my local shop couldn't get Nikon D70 by the time I needed DSLR.

Guess what -- none of the Phil's mentioned problems and cons were problems for me. However other things which Phil didn't mention popped up -- with DA 16-45 my DS almost all the time was underexposing, then I encountered that Auto ISO does not work when EV compensation is used (and I needed to use it because of 16-45 underexposure). So, completely different things bugged me.

Now I have K10D for a couple of weeks. Picture quality is just stunning. Exposure system works like a charm. Ergonomics superb. Dream camera. I am very happy that I am not dependent on dpreview rating as some other are. And I am sorry for those who said "no" to this exceptional camera just because one reviewer didn't like it very much.

I managed to find just two minor annoying things in my K10D:
2) poor auto WB performance in artificial lighting. While *istDS AWB was quite acceptable in those conditions I really don't like K10Ds yellowish WB. Pentax could have done much better in this area.
If I remember correctly AWB either 1)quits or 2) hasn't a clue when the color temp gets to the low levels of incandescents. Another thing to consider is the color temp of incandescents can get close to sunset/sunrise temps. How do you differentiate? do you want your sunsets "color corrected"?
As to flourescents/halogens/ high pressure sodium vapor, mercury ect. what does everyone expect??? Then if we mix them (I have tung and cf scattered though my house) now what?????
Another point is the "tungsten preset" is actually designed around the color temp of "studio tungsten" lighting which has a higher color temp then "normal tungsten"..........
If WB is so critical to you just do a custom WB. The "spot WB" that the K10 has would be a dream to this D shooter...
12-19-2006, 03:06 PM   #68
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I have always found AWB a strange thing... My loungeroom has white walls but due to the lighting it looks yellowish... Now according to most reviewers the camera should compensate and make the walls white... Yet my eyes/brain didn't do that...

And as Jeffkrol hinted at sunset you also get a orange light, so based on the AWB correction requirement of many the AWB should correct this light too???? destroying my photo in the process???

It seems a very fine line to walk and very difficult for the AWB system to know when to correct and when not too...

12-19-2006, 04:43 PM   #69
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the camera is supposed to make everything daylight.. i find a slight under expose helps keep things less daylight.. as u say your eyes never see daylight..

trog
12-19-2006, 05:17 PM   #70
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Maybe helpful?
Digital Camera RAW Converter Comparisons - White Balance at ISO 1600
12-19-2006, 06:55 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
2) poor auto WB performance in artificial lighting. While *istDS AWB was quite acceptable in those conditions I really don't like K10Ds yellowish WB. Pentax could have done much better in this area.
I just use the WB preview, see which color temperature looks great with the shot, then set it to this WB, and all the photos turn out great.

This WB preview is the best in camera feature yet

cheers
12-19-2006, 07:41 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Falcons Quote
just a quick warning to those who may not have experienced Ricehigh before.


The best thing is to ignore him and he will go away eventually - but he is very persistant and expect a few hundred loony threads before he finally gives up.


Congratulations on your appointment as arbiter of the forum's discussion policy.

However, much as you might enjoy your new role, I should point out that I (and anyone else with any backbone) will ingnore your instructions and talk to whomever we wish to.

Speaking personally, I would much rather converse with RH than with you.
12-19-2006, 07:51 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
You failed to mention he has been banned from both Dpreview and Steve's forums for brand bashing... ;-)

You shopuld be ashamed of yourself - using your position as a forum Moderator to egg on other another poster who is clearly trying to worm his way into your good books by flattering your long running feud with RH.

If you want to persecute RH, why not resign as Moderator - otherwise it becomes rather cowardly.

Their are enough bullying little Gauleiters strutting around the internet as it is, without you joining 'em!
12-19-2006, 08:12 PM   #74
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Why George? I haven't banned him, warned him or used my position (as you called it) in ANY way to strong-arm him.. I have simply disagreed with him and let him know my opinion and perception of his motives, as he has with me... He is still here isn't he?

I don't think I was trying to egg Falcons on either I stated a fact as I agreed somewhat with what Falcons was saying.. Though personally I choose not to sit back and ignore people if I don't agree with them..

As for Falcons motives from my perspective:- I didn't think he was trying to worm his way anywhere, it seems he was simply speaking his mind about something/someone who he obviously finds offensive, as you have also chosen to do too...

Now please can we return to the previous topic of discussion?

Last edited by joele; 12-19-2006 at 09:27 PM.
12-19-2006, 08:27 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by trog100 Quote
the camera is supposed to make everything daylight.. i find a slight under expose helps keep things less daylight.. as u say your eyes never see daylight..
Yes for sunsets I agree a little -EV helps, though generally it is one of the situations I think using RAW is very worthwhile...

Last edited by joele; 12-19-2006 at 09:25 PM.
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