Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-14-2007, 05:37 PM   #1
Senior Member




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ft Walton Beach, FL
Posts: 189
Another noise question

We all read about how the 6mp cameras handle noise better than the K10D. I have also read that this is because the sensor size is the same in both cameras, and 6 megapixels are easier to render or something than 10mp on the same size sensor. If I were to shoot in 6mp mode on my K10d, would it be as good at low noise images as the D, DS, DL, K100 series?

Just something I was wondering about today.

11-14-2007, 06:29 PM   #2
Pentaxian
Moderator Emeritus




Join Date: May 2007
Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,648
Shooting in another, smaller mode will not change the fact that the individual pixels in the K10D sensor are smaller to fit in the same space. Also the K10D uses different software to render the image so it processes differently.

If you want to shoot at 1600 say at a sporting event that has poor light the better way to do it is shoot at +1/2 or 1 Ev. Or shoot in M mode and over expose the settings by 1 stop. If you slightly over expose the shot the images will be very clean. Our normal tendancy is to Shoot at 0 Ev or slightly under exposed to bring out the colours in an image. In normal light at lower ISO settings, that is just fine. But at high ISO settings you'll have a ton of noise and almost unusable images.
Make sure you shoot in RAW as well if that's possible. Sometimes you want Jpeg for faster burst firing but if that's not needed then shoot RAW. It will give you a lot more latitude in adjusting the image later in PP.
The K10D will give you excellent results if you shoot this way.
11-14-2007, 06:37 PM   #3
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,312
QuoteOriginally posted by Eddie Quote
We all read about how the 6mp cameras handle noise better than the K10D. I have also read that this is because the sensor size is the same in both cameras, and 6 megapixels are easier to render or something than 10mp on the same size sensor. If I were to shoot in 6mp mode on my K10d, would it be as good at low noise images as the D, DS, DL, K100 series?

Just something I was wondering about today.
I haven't tried this but am doubtful.

10 MP sensors have more trouble with noise because each sensor (pixle) is smaller, and as a result any leakage current (dark current) in terms of electrons is a higher percentage of the total charge the sensor mesures.

Switchng to 6 MO may help because it will be an interpolation between sensors, but it may also not help because the data is still collected on all 10 million pixles first and then re-sized to 6 MP
11-14-2007, 06:41 PM   #4
Senior Member




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ft Walton Beach, FL
Posts: 189
Original Poster
Outstanding fellas! Makes a lot of sense to me! Thanks for the replies in terms even i can understand!

11-14-2007, 08:17 PM   #5
Pentaxian
jgredline's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: LosAngeles, Ca.
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,530
If I may...I have found that my K10D produces some pretty good photos at 1600...Where does this bad rep come from...

Here are some pics I took with my K10D at the mission in Santa Barbara...
The lens I was using that day is my 28mm to 300mm Tamron lens..So it was not my best lens by any means...Had I used my 70 f1.8 I am sure I would have got better results...or even my 28-70 f 2/8..I am sure a tri pod would have also helped....

This picture is at ISO 400..@28mm....I show this one so you may see the dark conditions..



Here is the same shot at ISO 1600 (max on a K10D) @28mm



Here is a similar shot still at 28mm but allot closer and ISO is only 1100



If you would like to check out the details, download the images and check out the properties or exif info....

I get great ISO shots with my K110D and MY100D super, but not nearly as nice as the K10D...Those extra MP don't hurt..... hope this helps...
11-14-2007, 09:16 PM   #6
Senior Member




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ft Walton Beach, FL
Posts: 189
Original Poster
Oh, please don't take this like I am complaining about this. I was just commenting on how some people complained of the noise and was wondering if the K10D set at 6mp produced similar results as the 6mp cameras. I don't personally have problems with this. I guess I just think too much...
11-14-2007, 09:32 PM   #7
Pentaxian
jgredline's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: LosAngeles, Ca.
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,530
Eddie
I am just keep wondering where these rumors come from on the K10D..I also have a D200 and there is no difference that I can see...Perhaps because I am a total amateur but I can't tell the difference..Further more its the fellas that don't own K10D's that seem to be saying that, so I don't know..I only know what I see in my own pics..
11-15-2007, 02:11 AM   #8
Veteran Member
jeffkrol's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,434
QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
If I may...I have found that my K10D produces some pretty good photos at 1600...Where does this bad rep come from...

Here are some pics I took with my K10D at the mission in Santa Barbara...
The lens I was using that day is my 28mm to 300mm Tamron lens..So it was not my best lens by any means...Had I used my 70 f1.8 I am sure I would have got better results...or even my 28-70 f 2/8..I am sure a tri pod would have also helped....

This picture is at ISO 400..@28mm....I show this one so you may see the dark conditions..


[COLOR="Red"][B]

If you would like to check out the details, download the images and check out the properties or exif info....

I get great ISO shots with my K110D and MY100D super, but not nearly as nice as the K10D...Those extra MP don't hurt..... hope this helps...
The dark one was only at 400. Sometimes it seems that only at iso's above that does the K10 start banding for some, especially when pushed. Couldn't get the dark 400 to really show this. BUT there is quite a bit of noise (not unexpected) when you push it. I still thnk that you get just as good results underexposing at low iso's then "proper" exposure at high iso's. Long story.....but even these seem to show that you are losing dynamic range at the high end. That could be processing though.



11-15-2007, 09:34 AM   #9
Pentaxian
jgredline's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: LosAngeles, Ca.
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,530
Jeff
Please explain a little bit further. What is branding? I have not heard that before.
11-15-2007, 10:47 AM   #10
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,812
OK here are some thoughts.

A higher Mp sensor will have smaller photo/pixel sites - so intrinsically their signal to noise ratio will be worse - ie: noise will be higher.

However with more pixels to play with, more effective noise reduction can be applied -
that is why the latest 10-12Mp dSLR are getting such "good" noise figures even at ISO1600 -
but notice most of the previous generation of 10Mp (like the K10D) did not have ISO3200.

When storing a photo at lower resolution, my understanding is the whole sensor and all the pixels are still used - then the camera down-sizes to the desired size.

In this process some reduction in noise takes place - due to "auto-correlation" - ie: because the nature of noise is random - when combined it cancels itself out.

I did an experiment using a noisier compact camera to show this effect - a 7Mp Canon PowerShot S70 - where the noise is quite high at ISO400.

The experiment and photo samples are on this old archived page (starting second post down).

On the same page were also experiments showing it was hard to see the noise with the unaided eye even using the pretty noisy ISO400 on smaller sized prints (eg: 6x4) .

I use the the Canon S70's noisy ISO400 fairly frequently for available light shots (no flash), and when sized for the web - the noise (which is clearly visible at full size view) is virtually non-existent when down-sized.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, cameras, dslr, k10d, noise, photography, read, sensor, size
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Beginners question about noise (clunk) in a Pentax DSLR DV8 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 62 09-25-2013 06:04 PM
K7 noise versus the rest question (a different take) harleynitelite Pentax DSLR Discussion 42 01-10-2010 10:26 AM
Question Re: K-x a different kind of noise Katsura Pentax DSLR Discussion 5 12-05-2009 11:37 PM
Question about noise Lainey Pentax DSLR Discussion 16 05-27-2009 11:44 AM
Noise Reduction question k20d jbrowning Pentax DSLR Discussion 10 10-22-2008 04:18 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:59 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top