Wait wait wait...Pentax Q vs K-r?

adr1an · 06-23-2011, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Tomislaw

The Lens Shutter is not available even on 645 Lenses, but is on this two for Q!? Everybody who did studio photography with medium/big format Cameras and flashes know what lens Shutter means, high speed flash syncing (1/1000 or more).

Now I am going to read the compleet Overview. :-)

P.S.
Sorry for my bad English.

Thats because the Q is mirrorless and doesnt have an FP Shutter at all... Its because of the mechanical limits that force SLR's (and dSLR's) to run double-curtained Focal Plane Shutters, meaning that full sensor exposure (or film) only occurs at 1/160-1/180 (depending on current model). Anything faster requires multiple flash pops/strobing - ala HSS.
To shoot at 1/2000 without HSS you need a Electronic Shutter - or arrangement like on the Q - as per the Nikon D70X which is why the D70X can sync all the way up to 1/4000.
But you just plain and simple can't get sync speed above 1/250 (which is already starting to defy physics) with an FP Shutter... so to see better sync speed on a K-? series, we'd also have to go mirrorless or end up with an electronic shutter ala D70X...

Also note - I'm not sure this is *true* syncing up to 1/2000 - I suspect its using a goofy HSS or something - Because they state the 1/2000 ONLY works with the BuiltIn Flash... so it wont work with anything off of the Hotshoe (at least reading the info available so far....)

Spare Tire · 06-23-2011, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Tomislaw

Everybody who did studio photography with medium/big format Cameras and flashes know what lens Shutter means, high speed flash syncing (1/1000 or more).

Personally, i've never seen a leaf-shutter that is faster than 1/500. Give me an example of a leaf-shutter that is 1/1000 or more please.

Also, there are two leaf-shutter lenses for the 645.

Tomislaw · 06-24-2011, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by Spare Tire

Personally, i've never seen a leaf-shutter that is faster than 1/500. Give me an example of a leaf-shutter that is 1/1000 or more please.

Also, there are two leaf-shutter lenses for the 645.

Yes, I did a bit overdo. The max sync speed that I see was 1/800, if I remember correct, is with some Schneider kreuznach lenses for large format cameras.

About the Pentax 645 lenses, I guess that this are "old" film lenses? I did't see any new 645 lens (at least not in any review on the Internet that I saw was it declared)

Ubuntu_user · 06-24-2011, 06:15 AM

What about the Leica S2? Doesn't it have leaf shutters in the lenses?

Tomislaw · 06-24-2011, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by Ubuntu_user

What about the Leica S2? Doesn't it have leaf shutters in the lenses?

S2 has both shutter, in lens and focal plane, so you can choose which to use.

Ubuntu_user · 06-24-2011, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by Tomislaw

S2 has both shutter, in lens and focal plane, so you can choose which to use.

That's what I thought... So how fast is it's shutter sync?

Tomislaw · 06-24-2011, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by Ubuntu_user

That's what I thought... So how fast is it's shutter sync?

From Leica site

Lens shutter 1/500
Focal plane 1/125

**piledon** · 06-24-2011, 02:16 PM

Smaller means better for stealth operations, too. I nearly got kicked out of a concert last week with my K-r - REAL cameras weren't allowed but they had no problem with p&s and cell phone cameras. This is a pretty cool concept. But it is the first version...I'd wait until at least V2.0 before considering it...

rlatjsrud · 06-24-2011, 02:16 PM - **1 Like**

PentaxWebstore Q Kit Black

It won't be cheaper. $800 is real price.

ShowMeTheMoney · 06-24-2011, 02:32 PM - **1 Like**

About a year and a half ago, a friend of mine asked me for some camera advise - at first he wanted a DSLR, so I pushed him towards the Canon 1000D and the Kx. At that time, the Canon was selling for PhP 26K pesos and the Pentax for PhP 29K pesos.

But once he saw then in person, he felt both were way too big. So I pushed him towards a point and shoot - a Canon S90 - at that time selling at PhP 17K. He was sort of ok with the size, but he still didn't buy it.

He ended up buying a Nokia N8. It had not been officially released to the local market yet, so he paid for the early adopter import price of PhP 30K. The Nokia N8 was (and still is) the best camera phone to date, but it was still a camera phone. And it was PhP 4K more expensive than the Canon 1000D. (About USD $90 more) And about USD $300 more expensive than the Canon S90.

And yet he purchased the N8 (the poorest IQ, smallest sensor and most expensive of all his choices), and fast forward one year later, he is a very happy man. And he has taken more images than I have with my K7 and M43rds gear.

Just goes to show that for a lot of people, they just want a camera they can take with them everyday, to upload their pics to Facebook. They don't need 10fps, they don't care about Full Frame, and if you hand them a Kr, they'd trade it for a GE or Polaroid Point and Shoot in a heartbeat.

Cinders · 06-24-2011, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by rlatjsrud

PentaxWebstore Q Kit Black

It won't be cheaper. $800 is real price.

Pentax's webstore also says the K-r is $850.

I bought mine, body only, for $550.

Ubuntu_user · 06-24-2011, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Tomislaw

From Leica site

Lens shutter 1/500
Focal plane 1/125

Thanks. I wonder why it isn't faster?

Originally posted by rlatjsrud

PentaxWebstore Q Kit Black

It won't be cheaper. $800 is real price.

Um, check this thread out (of course it's a rumor, but...) https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/149500-pentax-q-price-rumor-%24699.html

Why I say it will be cheaper is just because of the way the market works (I recently studied Marketing). e.g., the K-5 is not selling at the MSRP price.

selar · 06-24-2011, 07:17 PM

I saw the Q at PMA Australia today. Asked if I could try it was told it wasn't allowed to leave the cabinet.

The Jannie · 06-25-2011, 09:11 AM

The K-whatever would win it for me because the new Q toy doesn't have a built-in optical finder. It does have the add-on clunky thing which, no matter how well it might work, spoils the look of the machine the same as Panalympus' horrid thing does. Yuk.

noaslplease · 06-25-2011, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by The Jannie

The K-whatever would win it for me because the new Q toy doesn't have a built-in optical finder. It does have the add-on clunky thing which, no matter how well it might work, spoils the look of the machine the same as Panalympus' horrid thing does. Yuk.

+1

Wow the Pentax Q is getting a lot of criticism on other sites, mainly because of the sensor and the price-just look at the comments.

Pentax Q | PhotographyBLOG

06-24-2011, 07:17 PM	#28
selar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,042	I saw the Q at PMA Australia today. Asked if I could try it was told it wasn't allowed to leave the cabinet. Attached Images Last edited by selar; 06-24-2011 at 09:55 PM.

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06-23-2011, 06:49 PM	#16
adr1an Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 739	Originally posted by Tomislaw The Lens Shutter is not available even on 645 Lenses, but is on this two for Q!? Everybody who did studio photography with medium/big format Cameras and flashes know what lens Shutter means, high speed flash syncing (1/1000 or more). Now I am going to read the compleet Overview. :-) P.S. Sorry for my bad English. Thats because the Q is mirrorless and doesnt have an FP Shutter at all... Its because of the mechanical limits that force SLR's (and dSLR's) to run double-curtained Focal Plane Shutters, meaning that full sensor exposure (or film) only occurs at 1/160-1/180 (depending on current model). Anything faster requires multiple flash pops/strobing - ala HSS. To shoot at 1/2000 without HSS you need a Electronic Shutter - or arrangement like on the Q - as per the Nikon D70X which is why the D70X can sync all the way up to 1/4000. But you just plain and simple can't get sync speed above 1/250 (which is already starting to defy physics) with an FP Shutter... so to see better sync speed on a K-? series, we'd also have to go mirrorless or end up with an electronic shutter ala D70X... Also note - I'm not sure this is true syncing up to 1/2000 - I suspect its using a goofy HSS or something - Because they state the 1/2000 ONLY works with the BuiltIn Flash... so it wont work with anything off of the Hotshoe (at least reading the info available so far....)

06-23-2011, 08:21 PM	#17
Spare Tire Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Montréal Posts: 118	Originally posted by Tomislaw Everybody who did studio photography with medium/big format Cameras and flashes know what lens Shutter means, high speed flash syncing (1/1000 or more). Personally, i've never seen a leaf-shutter that is faster than 1/500. Give me an example of a leaf-shutter that is 1/1000 or more please. Also, there are two leaf-shutter lenses for the 645.

06-24-2011, 02:07 AM	#18
Tomislaw New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Zagreb Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13	Originally posted by Spare Tire Personally, i've never seen a leaf-shutter that is faster than 1/500. Give me an example of a leaf-shutter that is 1/1000 or more please. Also, there are two leaf-shutter lenses for the 645. Yes, I did a bit overdo. The max sync speed that I see was 1/800, if I remember correct, is with some Schneider kreuznach lenses for large format cameras. About the Pentax 645 lenses, I guess that this are "old" film lenses? I did't see any new 645 lens (at least not in any review on the Internet that I saw was it declared)

06-24-2011, 06:15 AM	#19
Ubuntu_user Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,545	What about the Leica S2? Doesn't it have leaf shutters in the lenses?

06-24-2011, 06:34 AM	#20
Tomislaw New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Zagreb Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13	Originally posted by Ubuntu_user What about the Leica S2? Doesn't it have leaf shutters in the lenses? S2 has both shutter, in lens and focal plane, so you can choose which to use.

06-24-2011, 09:29 AM	#21
Ubuntu_user Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,545	Originally posted by Tomislaw S2 has both shutter, in lens and focal plane, so you can choose which to use. That's what I thought... So how fast is it's shutter sync?

06-24-2011, 10:49 AM	#22
Tomislaw New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Zagreb Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13	Originally posted by Ubuntu_user That's what I thought... So how fast is it's shutter sync? From Leica site Lens shutter 1/500 Focal plane 1/125

06-24-2011, 02:16 PM	#23
piledon Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: San Francisco Photos: Gallery Posts: 128	Smaller means better for stealth operations, too. I nearly got kicked out of a concert last week with my K-r - REAL cameras weren't allowed but they had no problem with p&s and cell phone cameras. This is a pretty cool concept. But it is the first version...I'd wait until at least V2.0 before considering it...

06-24-2011, 02:16 PM - 1 Like	#24
rlatjsrud Guest	PentaxWebstore Q Kit Black It won't be cheaper. $800 is real price.

06-24-2011, 02:32 PM - 1 Like	#25
ShowMeTheMoney Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Metro Manila, Philippines Posts: 80	About a year and a half ago, a friend of mine asked me for some camera advise - at first he wanted a DSLR, so I pushed him towards the Canon 1000D and the Kx. At that time, the Canon was selling for PhP 26K pesos and the Pentax for PhP 29K pesos. But once he saw then in person, he felt both were way too big. So I pushed him towards a point and shoot - a Canon S90 - at that time selling at PhP 17K. He was sort of ok with the size, but he still didn't buy it. He ended up buying a Nokia N8. It had not been officially released to the local market yet, so he paid for the early adopter import price of PhP 30K. The Nokia N8 was (and still is) the best camera phone to date, but it was still a camera phone. And it was PhP 4K more expensive than the Canon 1000D. (About USD $90 more) And about USD $300 more expensive than the Canon S90. And yet he purchased the N8 (the poorest IQ, smallest sensor and most expensive of all his choices), and fast forward one year later, he is a very happy man. And he has taken more images than I have with my K7 and M43rds gear. Just goes to show that for a lot of people, they just want a camera they can take with them everyday, to upload their pics to Facebook. They don't need 10fps, they don't care about Full Frame, and if you hand them a Kr, they'd trade it for a GE or Polaroid Point and Shoot in a heartbeat.

06-24-2011, 02:53 PM	#26
Cinders Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 118	Originally posted by rlatjsrud PentaxWebstore Q Kit Black It won't be cheaper. $800 is real price. Pentax's webstore also says the K-r is $850. I bought mine, body only, for $550.

06-24-2011, 02:56 PM	#27
Ubuntu_user Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,545	Originally posted by Tomislaw From Leica site Lens shutter 1/500 Focal plane 1/125 Thanks. I wonder why it isn't faster? Originally posted by rlatjsrud PentaxWebstore Q Kit Black It won't be cheaper. $800 is real price. Um, check this thread out (of course it's a rumor, but...) https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/149500-pentax-q-price-rumor-%24699.html Why I say it will be cheaper is just because of the way the market works (I recently studied Marketing). e.g., the K-5 is not selling at the MSRP price.

06-25-2011, 09:11 AM	#29
The Jannie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: South Yorkshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 215	The K-whatever would win it for me because the new Q toy doesn't have a built-in optical finder. It does have the add-on clunky thing which, no matter how well it might work, spoils the look of the machine the same as Panalympus' horrid thing does. Yuk.

06-25-2011, 09:29 AM	#30
noaslplease Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: San Jose, California Photos: Albums Posts: 80 Original Poster	Originally posted by The Jannie The K-whatever would win it for me because the new Q toy doesn't have a built-in optical finder. It does have the add-on clunky thing which, no matter how well it might work, spoils the look of the machine the same as Panalympus' horrid thing does. Yuk. +1 Wow the Pentax Q is getting a lot of criticism on other sites, mainly because of the sensor and the price-just look at the comments. Pentax Q \| PhotographyBLOG