My next camera? and FF?

mhaws · 06-23-2011, 11:26 AM

Honestly I am just starting to think about this and haven't done my research, but I have the k-x right now. It's hard to see through the view finder, and the focus points take to long to toggle through. It would be nice to be able to see the focus points show in screen so that I can quickly change them without having to look down at my screen. Also so that I can be sure of my focus since it is so hard for me to see through the tiny viewfinder and be able to tell for sure if it got exactly the right spot focused.

This is probly a hashed question, but when I searched the question only seemed to be asked years ago....Does Pentax plan to make a full frame camera? (please don't start a debate on FF or bash me for even considering wanting one.... I just want to know if there is speculation that they would be making one?)

aleonx3 · 06-23-2011, 11:45 AM

Honestly the advantage of FF over APS-C is narrowing down in terms of iso noise performance, while other things such as DOF remains an advantage if you are going after that. If you are interested in wildlife and birding and use long lens often, APS-C sensor camera would get that advantage, plus less baggage (lighter lens and camera combo). On the other hand, if you are into landscape photography, FF will give you super wide angle unmatched by equivalent APS-C camera.

As to whether Pentax will have FF in the future, it is anybody guess. I would think that if it makes economic sense for Pentax to put into production, it will come. By that time, I think we will also see all other DSLR makers do that same. I personally have no need for that and I prefer lighter versatile camera for traveling purposes. I know my next one would be a k-5 or its successor.

v5planet · 06-23-2011, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by mhaws

Honestly I am just starting to think about this and haven't done my research, but I have the k-x right now. It's hard to see through the view finder, and the focus points take to long to toggle through. It would be nice to be able to see the focus points show in screen so that I can quickly change them without having to look down at my screen. Also so that I can be sure of my focus since it is so hard for me to see through the tiny viewfinder and be able to tell for sure if it got exactly the right spot focused.

This is probly a hashed question, but when I searched the question only seemed to be asked years ago....Does Pentax plan to make a full frame camera? (please don't start a debate on FF or bash me for even considering wanting one.... I just want to know if there is speculation that they would be making one?)

Well, these seem like two unrelated queries. I'll tell you that you don't need a full frame camera to be able to see focus point indicators when looking through a viewfinder. The K-7 and K-5 both support this, as does the K-r (I believe).

Pentax has no current, publicly-stated plans to produce a full frame camera. They are on record somewhere saying it's not been absolutely ruled out but I see it unlikely in the near or even several years from now future, for a few reasons:

1) most of their current lens lineup is not explicitly full-frame compatible, so they would either have to bring old lenses back into production or spend the R&D to make new lenses
2) they hold an incredibly small market share for all dslrs... and FF dslr sales are just a very small fraction of total dslr sales. That leaves Pentax committing a LOT of money into producing a camera that will be marketed to only a very thin market.
3) But they've already done that with the 645D -- so it's not impossible, but Pentax is now supporting three independent systems: Their APS-C offerings, their 645 offerings and their new Q-mount offerings. Speculation is that in the fall they will announce a second mirrorless camera system that may be compatible with current K-mount lenses - like are used on your K-x - but maybe they are planning yet another mount?

I don't see FF on the horizon, myself.

shiner · 06-23-2011, 01:20 PM

Not referring to the OP here at all, but I suspect that most of the folks on this forum who are begging for a FF Pentax would NEVER buy a FF system, were it ever offered- except for the few who are pros and have a specific requirement and business to exploit the aforementioned qualities of FF. They simply feel a need to "keep up with the Joneses", as it were. APS-C systems have numerous advantages over FF for most shooters, not the least of which being cost and size/weight.

deejjjaaaa · 06-23-2011, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by aleonx3

Honestly the advantage of FF over APS-C is narrowing down in terms of iso noise performance.

just because there were no new FF sensors for dSLR for like last 3 years...

deejjjaaaa · 06-23-2011, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by shiner

APS-C systems have numerous advantages over FF for most shooters, not the least of which being cost and size/weight.

so does m43/pentaxQ/top P&S over APS-C... for most shooters (read - using 1-2 dark kit zooms).

deejjjaaaa · 06-23-2011, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by aleonx3

I prefer lighter versatile camera for traveling purposes.

M9/its lenses are FF and hardly big... FF != big FF dSLR a-la C&N... can be mirrorless FF w/ lenses smaller because of the smaller registration distance (excluding big tele of course, but then those tele for APS-C dSLR are not small either)

shiner · 06-23-2011, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by deejjjaaaa

so does m43/pentaxQ/top P&S over APS-C... for most shooters (read - using 1-2 dark kit zooms).

The difference between APS-C and FF IQ isn't exactly night-and-day, from the examples I see posted in forums, but the bulk and weight of the systems is. Have you priced an M9?

RioRico · 06-23-2011, 02:10 PM

Many Pentax FF cameras exist. I own four: Spotmatic, K1000, MX, ZX-M. I also have FF cameras from Praktica, Yashica, Olympus, Voigtlander, Petri, Canon, Argus, Chinon, and others. Now all I need is a good scanner for digitizing negatives and transparencies...

Conventional wisdom: by releasing the 645D, Pentax skipped over the FF dSLR market. And now there's the Q, skipping under the m4/3 market. But suppose PenHoya decides to skip AROUND the FF dSLR market, with a FF EVIL/MILC? Yeah, it could happen... Hay, get those reindeer off my roof!!

**Ash** · 06-23-2011, 02:11 PM

mhaws, the K-r offers a similar viewfinder, slightly better performance in all regards, and of course also has the superimposed AF point indicator in the viewfinder. If you're looking for a light and versatile camera, this one may be for you. Otherwise, the K-5 should be all you'd want in a dSLR.

Frankly, FF may be on the cards for Pentax in the not too distant future, but you'd have to ask yourself why you'd want one. If it is purely for the viewfinder, then you could possibly justify the desire for FF. Test drive a D700 or 5DMkII and see for yourself if you like their viewfinders. I've shot with the 5DMkII a few times now and I'm impressed but not to the point of giving up the K-5.

adpo · 06-23-2011, 04:38 PM

from what i can tell, a k-5 is what you should probably be looking at right now. Try renting out one for a weekend and see if it fits what you're looking for. As for definitive focus confirmation on your k-x, just get a split prism focusing screen or use live view. You also got the choice of simply using the center focus point and recomposing after focusing.
If you seriously are looking into FF in the near future, your only choices are canon, nikon and sony (unless you plan on going to film, which is what is filling up my FF desires for the moment

). Have you ever actually handled a FF camera? If not, you should really try it out and see if it is really for you (and worth the extra several thousand dollars). Honestly, the advantages of FF are growing ever smaller due to newer technology in APS-C cameras (since they're the ones that make the companies money, not so much FF). I don't really see any real advantage of going FF if you're not a pro who's job demands FF or MF bodies for the job.

mhaws · 06-23-2011, 05:48 PM

I use single point focus and choose the point since I often use very shallow DOF. Recomposing doesn't work so well with most of my subjects (kids!).

So about FF. I have never handled a FF. I am recently getting really obsessed with photography and want to become a professional portrait photographer (doing environmental portraits), but it seems all the photographers whose work I admire use a Nikon D700 or a Canon DmkII (usually the later) I honestly can't tell a dif in IQ of a mk II compared to a D7, but I don't have a trained eye and I'm not blowing it up just viewing on screen. I figure it's the DOF capabilities that they would want a FF for, right? I really am not sure WHY, just that I want to be like them and that's what they use, hahaha. I wouldn't buy one right away obviously with such little knowledge and experience, but I wondered if switching to Cannon or Nikon would be better for me if that's what I would eventually want (and I dont know if it is?) Do you get my train of thought?

tibbitts · 06-25-2011, 04:39 PM

Quote:

So about FF. I have never handled a FF. I am recently getting really obsessed with photography and want to become a professional portrait photographer (doing environmental portraits), but it seems all he photographers whose work I admire use a Nikon D700 or a Canon DmkII (usually the later) I honestly can't tell a dif in IQ of a mk II compared to a D7, but I don't have a trained eye and I'm not blowing it up just viewing on screen. I figure it's the DOF capabilities that they would want a FF for, right? I really am not sure WHY, just that I want to be like them and that's what they use, hahaha. I wouldn't buy one right away obviously with such little knowledge and experience, but I wondered if switching to Cannon or Nikon would be better for me if that's what I would eventually want (and I dont know if it is?) Do you get my train of thought?

I'm not sure DOF would be a huge issue with environment portraits. There are some other contexts where it would be. I'm guessing that for most pros, professional services, existing FF lens base, availability of special purpose lenses (long/fast, shift, etc.), and the ability to share equipment (newspapers, for example, may have a pool of lenses for staff use), are all reasons for pros to go with a more common platform.

Paul

adpo · 06-25-2011, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by mhaws

I use single point focus and choose the point since I often use very shallow DOF. Recomposing doesn't work so well with most of my subjects (kids!).

So about FF. I have never handled a FF. I am recently getting really obsessed with photography and want to become a professional portrait photographer (doing environmental portraits), but it seems all the photographers whose work I admire use a Nikon D700 or a Canon DmkII (usually the later) I honestly can't tell a dif in IQ of a mk II compared to a D7, but I don't have a trained eye and I'm not blowing it up just viewing on screen. I figure it's the DOF capabilities that they would want a FF for, right? I really am not sure WHY, just that I want to be like them and that's what they use, hahaha. I wouldn't buy one right away obviously with such little knowledge and experience, but I wondered if switching to Cannon or Nikon would be better for me if that's what I would eventually want (and I dont know if it is?) Do you get my train of thought?

the thing is, the pros that you admire have amazing photos because they are amazing photographers, not because of their gear. They just so happen to shoot FF since that may be the most practical choice for them. A lot of d700 users i know shoot with the d700 for its fast autofocus and low light performance, something that the K-5 has considerably closed the gap on in the FF vs APS-C debate. the 5d mkii users i know are either landscape, architectural, or video shooters. They went FF because of the extra wide angle of view on the wide end.

so put simply, learn what you actually need first. if you want FF because that's what all the pros use, then you're going FF for the wrong reasons. Chose a system based on its merits and how they apply to your shooting

noblepa · 06-25-2011, 06:51 PM

Regardless of the real and/or perceived advantages of FF, Pentax has emphatically stated that they have no plans to produce a FF camera. They have not said that they would never produce one, but, as of now, the last statement from them is NO FF!

There has not been the slightest hint from Pentax that they have changed that policy. They have not introduced any FF compatible lenses recently. They have not shown any prototypes or design studies. No Pentax or Hoya executive has let slip a comment that might indicate that a FF is in the works or even being contemplated.

The bottom line is that they might someday produce a FF camera, but there isn't the slightest hint of one in the works. If you want or need a FF camera, any time in the next five years, you will have to go elsewhere.

All that being said, I don't believe for a moment that, somewhere within Pentax, some engineer isn't keeping tabs on the available FF sensors and those in development. Someone in Pentax marketing or sales is monitoring the sales of Nikon, Canon and Sony FF cameras. But that is a far cry from working on actually building such a camera.

06-23-2011, 11:26 AM	#1
mhaws Forum Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Utah Posts: 50	My next camera? and FF? Honestly I am just starting to think about this and haven't done my research, but I have the k-x right now. It's hard to see through the view finder, and the focus points take to long to toggle through. It would be nice to be able to see the focus points show in screen so that I can quickly change them without having to look down at my screen. Also so that I can be sure of my focus since it is so hard for me to see through the tiny viewfinder and be able to tell for sure if it got exactly the right spot focused. This is probly a hashed question, but when I searched the question only seemed to be asked years ago....Does Pentax plan to make a full frame camera? (please don't start a debate on FF or bash me for even considering wanting one.... I just want to know if there is speculation that they would be making one?)

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06-23-2011, 11:45 AM	#2
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Honestly the advantage of FF over APS-C is narrowing down in terms of iso noise performance, while other things such as DOF remains an advantage if you are going after that. If you are interested in wildlife and birding and use long lens often, APS-C sensor camera would get that advantage, plus less baggage (lighter lens and camera combo). On the other hand, if you are into landscape photography, FF will give you super wide angle unmatched by equivalent APS-C camera. As to whether Pentax will have FF in the future, it is anybody guess. I would think that if it makes economic sense for Pentax to put into production, it will come. By that time, I think we will also see all other DSLR makers do that same. I personally have no need for that and I prefer lighter versatile camera for traveling purposes. I know my next one would be a k-5 or its successor.

06-23-2011, 11:49 AM	#3
v5planet Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,915	Originally posted by mhaws Honestly I am just starting to think about this and haven't done my research, but I have the k-x right now. It's hard to see through the view finder, and the focus points take to long to toggle through. It would be nice to be able to see the focus points show in screen so that I can quickly change them without having to look down at my screen. Also so that I can be sure of my focus since it is so hard for me to see through the tiny viewfinder and be able to tell for sure if it got exactly the right spot focused. This is probly a hashed question, but when I searched the question only seemed to be asked years ago....Does Pentax plan to make a full frame camera? (please don't start a debate on FF or bash me for even considering wanting one.... I just want to know if there is speculation that they would be making one?) Well, these seem like two unrelated queries. I'll tell you that you don't need a full frame camera to be able to see focus point indicators when looking through a viewfinder. The K-7 and K-5 both support this, as does the K-r (I believe). Pentax has no current, publicly-stated plans to produce a full frame camera. They are on record somewhere saying it's not been absolutely ruled out but I see it unlikely in the near or even several years from now future, for a few reasons: 1) most of their current lens lineup is not explicitly full-frame compatible, so they would either have to bring old lenses back into production or spend the R&D to make new lenses 2) they hold an incredibly small market share for all dslrs... and FF dslr sales are just a very small fraction of total dslr sales. That leaves Pentax committing a LOT of money into producing a camera that will be marketed to only a very thin market. 3) But they've already done that with the 645D -- so it's not impossible, but Pentax is now supporting three independent systems: Their APS-C offerings, their 645 offerings and their new Q-mount offerings. Speculation is that in the fall they will announce a second mirrorless camera system that may be compatible with current K-mount lenses - like are used on your K-x - but maybe they are planning yet another mount? I don't see FF on the horizon, myself.

06-23-2011, 01:20 PM	#4
shiner Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N GA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,127	Not referring to the OP here at all, but I suspect that most of the folks on this forum who are begging for a FF Pentax would NEVER buy a FF system, were it ever offered- except for the few who are pros and have a specific requirement and business to exploit the aforementioned qualities of FF. They simply feel a need to "keep up with the Joneses", as it were. APS-C systems have numerous advantages over FF for most shooters, not the least of which being cost and size/weight.

06-23-2011, 01:32 PM	#5
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by aleonx3 Honestly the advantage of FF over APS-C is narrowing down in terms of iso noise performance. just because there were no new FF sensors for dSLR for like last 3 years...

06-23-2011, 01:33 PM	#6
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by shiner APS-C systems have numerous advantages over FF for most shooters, not the least of which being cost and size/weight. so does m43/pentaxQ/top P&S over APS-C... for most shooters (read - using 1-2 dark kit zooms).

06-23-2011, 01:36 PM	#7
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by aleonx3 I prefer lighter versatile camera for traveling purposes. M9/its lenses are FF and hardly big... FF != big FF dSLR a-la C&N... can be mirrorless FF w/ lenses smaller because of the smaller registration distance (excluding big tele of course, but then those tele for APS-C dSLR are not small either)

06-23-2011, 01:51 PM	#8
shiner Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N GA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,127	Originally posted by deejjjaaaa so does m43/pentaxQ/top P&S over APS-C... for most shooters (read - using 1-2 dark kit zooms). The difference between APS-C and FF IQ isn't exactly night-and-day, from the examples I see posted in forums, but the bulk and weight of the systems is. Have you priced an M9?

06-23-2011, 02:10 PM	#9
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Many Pentax FF cameras exist. I own four: Spotmatic, K1000, MX, ZX-M. I also have FF cameras from Praktica, Yashica, Olympus, Voigtlander, Petri, Canon, Argus, Chinon, and others. Now all I need is a good scanner for digitizing negatives and transparencies... Conventional wisdom: by releasing the 645D, Pentax skipped over the FF dSLR market. And now there's the Q, skipping under the m4/3 market. But suppose PenHoya decides to skip AROUND the FF dSLR market, with a FF EVIL/MILC? Yeah, it could happen... Hay, get those reindeer off my roof!!

06-23-2011, 02:11 PM	#10
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	mhaws, the K-r offers a similar viewfinder, slightly better performance in all regards, and of course also has the superimposed AF point indicator in the viewfinder. If you're looking for a light and versatile camera, this one may be for you. Otherwise, the K-5 should be all you'd want in a dSLR. Frankly, FF may be on the cards for Pentax in the not too distant future, but you'd have to ask yourself why you'd want one. If it is purely for the viewfinder, then you could possibly justify the desire for FF. Test drive a D700 or 5DMkII and see for yourself if you like their viewfinders. I've shot with the 5DMkII a few times now and I'm impressed but not to the point of giving up the K-5.

06-23-2011, 04:38 PM	#11
adpo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery Posts: 888	from what i can tell, a k-5 is what you should probably be looking at right now. Try renting out one for a weekend and see if it fits what you're looking for. As for definitive focus confirmation on your k-x, just get a split prism focusing screen or use live view. You also got the choice of simply using the center focus point and recomposing after focusing. If you seriously are looking into FF in the near future, your only choices are canon, nikon and sony (unless you plan on going to film, which is what is filling up my FF desires for the moment ). Have you ever actually handled a FF camera? If not, you should really try it out and see if it is really for you (and worth the extra several thousand dollars). Honestly, the advantages of FF are growing ever smaller due to newer technology in APS-C cameras (since they're the ones that make the companies money, not so much FF). I don't really see any real advantage of going FF if you're not a pro who's job demands FF or MF bodies for the job.

06-23-2011, 05:48 PM	#12
mhaws Forum Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Utah Posts: 50 Original Poster	I use single point focus and choose the point since I often use very shallow DOF. Recomposing doesn't work so well with most of my subjects (kids!). So about FF. I have never handled a FF. I am recently getting really obsessed with photography and want to become a professional portrait photographer (doing environmental portraits), but it seems all the photographers whose work I admire use a Nikon D700 or a Canon DmkII (usually the later) I honestly can't tell a dif in IQ of a mk II compared to a D7, but I don't have a trained eye and I'm not blowing it up just viewing on screen. I figure it's the DOF capabilities that they would want a FF for, right? I really am not sure WHY, just that I want to be like them and that's what they use, hahaha. I wouldn't buy one right away obviously with such little knowledge and experience, but I wondered if switching to Cannon or Nikon would be better for me if that's what I would eventually want (and I dont know if it is?) Do you get my train of thought?

06-25-2011, 04:39 PM	#13
tibbitts Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Oklahoma USA Posts: 2,193	Quote: So about FF. I have never handled a FF. I am recently getting really obsessed with photography and want to become a professional portrait photographer (doing environmental portraits), but it seems all he photographers whose work I admire use a Nikon D700 or a Canon DmkII (usually the later) I honestly can't tell a dif in IQ of a mk II compared to a D7, but I don't have a trained eye and I'm not blowing it up just viewing on screen. I figure it's the DOF capabilities that they would want a FF for, right? I really am not sure WHY, just that I want to be like them and that's what they use, hahaha. I wouldn't buy one right away obviously with such little knowledge and experience, but I wondered if switching to Cannon or Nikon would be better for me if that's what I would eventually want (and I dont know if it is?) Do you get my train of thought? I'm not sure DOF would be a huge issue with environment portraits. There are some other contexts where it would be. I'm guessing that for most pros, professional services, existing FF lens base, availability of special purpose lenses (long/fast, shift, etc.), and the ability to share equipment (newspapers, for example, may have a pool of lenses for staff use), are all reasons for pros to go with a more common platform. Paul

06-25-2011, 05:03 PM	#14
adpo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery Posts: 888	Originally posted by mhaws I use single point focus and choose the point since I often use very shallow DOF. Recomposing doesn't work so well with most of my subjects (kids!). So about FF. I have never handled a FF. I am recently getting really obsessed with photography and want to become a professional portrait photographer (doing environmental portraits), but it seems all the photographers whose work I admire use a Nikon D700 or a Canon DmkII (usually the later) I honestly can't tell a dif in IQ of a mk II compared to a D7, but I don't have a trained eye and I'm not blowing it up just viewing on screen. I figure it's the DOF capabilities that they would want a FF for, right? I really am not sure WHY, just that I want to be like them and that's what they use, hahaha. I wouldn't buy one right away obviously with such little knowledge and experience, but I wondered if switching to Cannon or Nikon would be better for me if that's what I would eventually want (and I dont know if it is?) Do you get my train of thought? the thing is, the pros that you admire have amazing photos because they are amazing photographers, not because of their gear. They just so happen to shoot FF since that may be the most practical choice for them. A lot of d700 users i know shoot with the d700 for its fast autofocus and low light performance, something that the K-5 has considerably closed the gap on in the FF vs APS-C debate. the 5d mkii users i know are either landscape, architectural, or video shooters. They went FF because of the extra wide angle of view on the wide end. so put simply, learn what you actually need first. if you want FF because that's what all the pros use, then you're going FF for the wrong reasons. Chose a system based on its merits and how they apply to your shooting

06-25-2011, 06:51 PM	#15
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	Regardless of the real and/or perceived advantages of FF, Pentax has emphatically stated that they have no plans to produce a FF camera. They have not said that they would never produce one, but, as of now, the last statement from them is NO FF! There has not been the slightest hint from Pentax that they have changed that policy. They have not introduced any FF compatible lenses recently. They have not shown any prototypes or design studies. No Pentax or Hoya executive has let slip a comment that might indicate that a FF is in the works or even being contemplated. The bottom line is that they might someday produce a FF camera, but there isn't the slightest hint of one in the works. If you want or need a FF camera, any time in the next five years, you will have to go elsewhere. All that being said, I don't believe for a moment that, somewhere within Pentax, some engineer isn't keeping tabs on the available FF sensors and those in development. Someone in Pentax marketing or sales is monitoring the sales of Nikon, Canon and Sony FF cameras. But that is a far cry from working on actually building such a camera.