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06-30-2011, 09:11 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
As an older teenager into photography in the early 1980's Pentax was like Oldsmobile: grandpa's brand. Despite innovations and firsts, Pentax really never shook that label for a younger crowd. Canon and Minolta were where the new tech was; they were the TransAms of cameras (not necessarily a good thing). Nikon was the pro stuff but sort of fuddy duddy and precious arrogant with brutally expensive glass. The Olympus OM series was showing its age. Contax and others were weird and most often over-priced. My "quaint" camera was a dear Rollei 35RS from Germany my mother gave me to match hers. At first I thumbed my nose at it (zone focusing...who cares?) but after about a year I realized that my skills had increased to the point where I could tell the camera what to do with assurance and did not need to rely on AF. Ironically, that's when cameras got cheaper for me!

It'sa good point about MF and the wedding crowd, but that was going on well before the boom in the 1980's 120 scene with Mamiya and Rollei all jumping in along with Pentax and of course, Hasselblad. I live in a neighborhood now where I have no less than 4 houses on one 2 block stretch with built-in 1980's darkrooms and studios where 120 was the thing as a hobby, not wedding biz. 35mm was for the mini-lab crowd. My photographer teacher in high school insisted we all shoot 135 while he shot MF!

I *lived* for photo and skateboarding magazines from about 1978 to 1988.

I'm probably 10 years older than you, and everyone's parents had shot 120 (it was pretty much all there was beyond 35mm RF) but Pentax (and Nikon and later oly OM series) got them all to change, same went polaroid as well, that's how Pentax got to 10 million SLRs before everyone else
My first SLR in 73 was a Zenit, replaced by a K1000, by 78 i was shooting with a Nikon F kit I got an amazing price on from an old hippy who needed some cash (2 bodies, MD, Bulk Back, Flash, 20,28,35,50,135,200 all fast glass) for $600 (damn i should have kept it I sold it on for $900 when i needed cash lol)
later I moved into Canon with the FD mount. the Eos change made me nuts, my Canon gear got stolen so i used the insurance dough to move back to Pentax (largely due to the idea of all the old glass working - though i never really got crazy for it until i went digital, AF was just to convenient) Funnily enough Digital has had me moving backwards more, I have more film gear than i ever had in multiple formats and body types with a large number of lenses to support it all. My first MF (aside from some old folders when i was young) were bought in the digital age (always wanted MF but could never justify the cost for what had become a hobby i had little time for due to a career that sucked up all my time- leaving that is what got me back into photography)

07-02-2011, 12:02 AM - 1 Like   #137
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All you FF guys are such grumps.

If Pentax ever did introduce a digital FF, it would no doubt suffer the same miserable fate on PF as ever other recent Pentax body has: interminable gripes about BF/FF, bad AF, stains, dust, power, batteries, fatal lack of super-important feature X or essential widget Y that Brand Z has, lack of lenses, poor Pentax marketing, disasterous mirror slap problems, horrible QC, battery problems, too expensive, too hard to find in stores, poor warranty, poor service centres, poor software, no tethering, no camera profiles in Lightroom etc etc etc. Inevitably the camera would be judged a failure and everyone will threaten to switch to Canon or Nikon, just like they do now.
07-02-2011, 03:15 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
All you FF guys are such grumps.

If Pentax ever did introduce a digital FF, it would no doubt suffer the same miserable fate on PF as ever other recent Pentax body has: interminable gripes about BF/FF, bad AF, stains, dust, power, batteries, fatal lack of super-important feature X or essential widget Y that Brand Z has, lack of lenses, poor Pentax marketing, disasterous mirror slap problems, horrible QC, battery problems, too expensive, too hard to find in stores, poor warranty, poor service centres, poor software, no tethering, no camera profiles in Lightroom etc etc etc. Inevitably the camera would be judged a failure and everyone will threaten to switch to Canon or Nikon, just like they do now.
Good analysis. But you forgot to mention: no lenses
FF is a big commitment for pentax, lets just hope that Ricoh will give founds for this!
07-02-2011, 05:08 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by la_nonna Quote
Good analysis. But you forgot to mention: no lenses
FF is a big commitment for pentax, lets just hope that Ricoh will give founds for this!
I don't see any point to buy Pentax DA pancakes nowdays, this market is over for DSLRs.
Samsung NX lenses provide better IQ and lighter, the newest samsung sensor which will be used in NX20-NX200 is superior to one used in K-5. So stop singing the "No FF" mantra. No FF ≡ no future. Shut up or die.

07-02-2011, 05:58 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
No FF ≡ no future.
Oh wow...I'll take that bet! I think it's FF that's looking at no future.
07-02-2011, 06:00 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Oh wow...I'll take that bet! I think it's FF that's looking at no future.
Agreed, although I'd tone it down to "a niche future".
07-02-2011, 07:07 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Oh wow...I'll take that bet! I think it's FF that's looking at no future.
Didn't you get the point Samsung NX lenses are superior to Pentax DA analogues both optically and by weight? The NX 2* will likely have better sensor than even K-5. And this will cost twice cheaper than K-5. What's the point then in buying Pentax? Only larger sensor will make Pentax a good choice.
07-02-2011, 07:14 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Didn't you get the point Samsung NX lenses are superior to Pentax DA analogues both optically and by weight? The NX 2* will likely have better sensor than even K-5. And this will cost twice cheaper than K-5. What's the point then in buying Pentax? Only larger sensor will make Pentax a good choice.
Facts, please, not assertions. You make so many claims like this I find it difficult to credit them without proof. Otherwise, I'm going to assume your just having hysterics.

What was it you said?

Oh... let me paraphrase: "Facts or die."

07-02-2011, 07:48 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
All you FF guys are such grumps.

If Pentax ever did introduce a digital FF, it would no doubt suffer the same miserable fate on PF as ever other recent Pentax body has: interminable gripes about BF/FF, bad AF, stains, dust, power, batteries, fatal lack of super-important feature X or essential widget Y that Brand Z has, lack of lenses, poor Pentax marketing, disasterous mirror slap problems, horrible QC, battery problems, too expensive, too hard to find in stores, poor warranty, poor service centres, poor software, no tethering, no camera profiles in Lightroom etc etc etc. Inevitably the camera would be judged a failure and everyone will threaten to switch to Canon or Nikon, just like they do now.
And your point is?

sarcasm
07-02-2011, 07:49 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Didn't you get the point Samsung NX lenses are superior to Pentax DA analogues both optically and by weight? The NX 2* will likely have better sensor than even K-5. And this will cost twice cheaper than K-5. What's the point then in buying Pentax? Only larger sensor will make Pentax a good choice.
That is the funniest thing I have seen this week. How much are you getting paid as a Samsung rep?

Troll
07-02-2011, 08:05 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
Facts, please, not assertions. You make so many claims like this I find it difficult to credit them without proof. Otherwise, I'm going to assume your just having hysterics.

What was it you said?

Oh... let me paraphrase: "Facts or die."
I tried NX 20 and 30 a couple of times. You can find the NX 30 test here: Samsung NX 30mm f/2 - Review / Test Report - Analysis

And these are DA 35Ltd, DA 35 and FA 35:
Pentax SMC DA 35mm f/2.8 Limited macro - Review / Test Report - Analysis
Pentax SMC DA 35mm f/2.4 AL - Review / Lens Test - Analysis
Pentax SMC-FA 35mm f/2 AL - Review / Test Report - Sample Images & Verdict

Samsung: 4 stars and good resolution figures at the cost of DA 35
DA35Ltd: 3.5 stars and the worst resolution, and THE COST. Macro freaks can love it though.
DA35: 3.5 to 4 stars, slightly worse resolution than one of samsung
FA35: 4 stars, the same resolution with samsung, it heavier and larger though. The cost is twice higher.


I couldn't find any proper NX 20 testing in the web. But since I tried the DA 21Ltd, and have CZ Distagon 21, I can make evaluations I suppose.
So, my opinion is the NX 20 is very good. Definitely better than 21Ltd. Not as good as Distagon, but the difference between them is less than one between NX 20 and 21Ltd. But (NX20 + 30f2) Kit + 20f2.8 + 16f2.4 in will cost less than one Distagon, and the weight would be only slight more than one of Distagon (400g + 90g + 90g + 90g)! And it would be lighter and smaller than K-5 + DA 35 + DA21Ltd + DA15Ltd. And the IQ will be better: 18mp sensor with more DR, about the same high ISO performance combined with better lenses.
So I don't really see a point why newcomers should buy Pentax with tons of quality issues if they don't have bunch of FA stars and limiteds.
07-02-2011, 08:08 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Didn't you get the point Samsung NX lenses are superior to Pentax DA analogues both optically and by weight? The NX 2* will likely have better sensor than even K-5. And this will cost twice cheaper than K-5.
None of that means anything if they're not out-selling Pentax...which they're not. History is riddled with better ideas that lost out to market forces. That fact is, the buying public is looking for smaller, lighter, easier. The market will dictate a turn away from FF.
07-02-2011, 08:12 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
That is the funniest thing I have seen this week. How much are you getting paid as a Samsung rep?:Troll:
Samsung rep? No, I hate them (some their divisions actually, especially the mobile one). But it's strange to not admit they are leading in electronic technologies nowdays. Japan mafioso corps became too awkward and just cannot resist.
07-02-2011, 08:18 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
None of that means anything if they're not out-selling Pentax...which they're not. History is riddled with better ideas that lost out to market forces. That fact is, the buying public is looking for smaller, lighter, easier. The market will dictate a turn away from FF.
Refuse from ineffective SR what tends to cause blur, use some kind of OLED technology instead of LCD and you will get some more space. And they had some prototypes of FF in the body of K-7/K-5 some time ago. And, again, if they are looking for "smaller, lighter, easier", they better choose Samsung NX or even any P&S if not phone

But if they want to achieve a good IQ besides being "smaller, lighter, easier", the FF with just good lenses will easily outperform any APS-C.

PS I won't recommend NX system for one who want to shoot portraits. They won't have proper lenses for this purpose: only freaks shooting them with macro lenses (60 f2.8), and the ever stupid decision to build 85 f1.4 for APS-C system, they better introduced some kind of 50 f1.X/55 f1.X

Last edited by Emacs; 07-02-2011 at 08:30 AM.
07-02-2011, 08:21 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Samsung rep? No, I hate them (some their divisions actually, especially the mobile one). But it's strange to not admit they are leading in electronic technologies nowdays. Japan mafioso corps became too awkward and just cannot resist.
Too bad they get there arse handed to them in optics.
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