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06-28-2011, 10:11 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
So Jay, when are you getting ur pentax Q?
Uh, if you've noticed, I surround myself with equipment that makes me look good, like the M 85, it's easier that way!

(although I do like Clinton's 'nipple cam' idea for the Q.)


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06-28-2011, 10:27 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
... They actually have nearly as many ff lenses that could go out as the do aps-c. They have about 32 lens on the Pentax Imaging site not including the silver DA ltds. Of those, The FA ltd, FA 50/1.4, D FA 50/1.8, D FA 100 WR and DA* 55 are ff as is the recently discontinued FA 35/2 and FA* 600/4. I suspect the DA* 200, 300. The point is, its not like they have a huge '35mm' lens catalog as it is. They recently cranked out a batch of FA 35/2, FA 20-35/4 and A 50/1.2 so that shows than can tool up on the lines. I don't think the lens argument really holds up.
I know. This makes it very frustrating for us, because we know how easy it would be to outfit a pentax FF system with great glass for not necessarily that much money.

I think the problem is though that it's harder to make the case to Hoya/Pentax brass internally if there are not, say, 4 more new, expensive FF lenses that will be going out the door at the same time. They would want as quick a ROI as possible, and those lenses represent huge profits that would get them there.

I suspect they're more concerned about a destabilizing technology appearing half way through their FF ROI schedule, throwing a wrench in everything. The risk of that happening is lessened if that schedule is much shorter - and the only way to make it short enough to seem un-scary to them is if they make (and sell) those uber-lenses too.

I think that's what Ned was hinting at. The necessary-for-ROI lens rollout is not getting traction internally because it's probably the biggest single piece of the puzzle. It's just a big, scary detent to the whole process. There probably isn't an executive sponsor at Hoya willing to sign off on that.


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Last edited by jsherman999; 06-28-2011 at 10:32 PM.
06-28-2011, 11:24 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
A) Measure a pinhead's surface area
B) Measure some angels' arses
C) Divide A by B. Elementary, eh?
Rio, Arisophanes, you made me laugh, literally, out loud, at 1:24 AM, prompting my wife to tell me to be quiet. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
06-28-2011, 11:32 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Ironically, this absolute, clinical detail supplied by the unforgiving sensor that can magnify even the slightest lack of rear coating on a legacy lens is something that makes people want to use film again!

Ahhh...Portra 400. No chimping. No PP, just send it out to RPL.

Film's limitations are looking more and more like the imperfections we need to see the world less as a perfect reflection and more as an interpretation, begging the question: "What is photography?"

And the Q has "toy" lenses.

So how many angels can fit on the head of a pin?
As someone who shot THOUSANDS of polaroids for recalcitrant art directors, the sheer ability to "chimp" is a godsend. I sold my flashmeter - who needs one? You meter: "POP"; you set the camera, do a test shot "POP"; you adjust lights and test again "POP"... The meter saves you exactly one "POP". I'm so used to checking the 'roid for flaws - shadows, things in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc... I love my screen.

I sometimes miss the ROMANCE of film, I admit. Sometimes I miss the darkroom - watching a print 'come up', making contacts, test prints, etc. Making out with girls in the ... wait, that was high school, and might have something to do with my darkroom nostalgia But I *never* miss the actuality of film. I'm a digital boy head to toe. Particularly when I compare prints from my Canons (and borrowed Minolta, Nikon, Olympus and Pentax) film cameras with prints from my K20D - and it's even worse with the K-5.

06-29-2011, 01:10 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Take the MZ-S. Add in a built-in grip for the battery and another 0.6 cm thicker to accommodate circuitry and rear LCD. It could be made slightly smaller with a pellicle EVF design (with extensive video which broadens market support), but battery life becomes an issue.

What is lost in the film compartment is regained and then some in the SR and other circuitry, plus battery.

High ISO sensors could obviate the need for SR and related circuitry. That's kind of what the thinking is for Pro offerings from Nikon especially. In theory an FF system could be built the size of the Fuji X100, but then you're tackling the issue of VF and whether you're making a true SLR. One also has to ask if all that legacy glass is capable of rendering quality on these unforgiving sensors. With Nikon FF, for 95% of shooting, one really needs the D700 and the 14-24, and 24-70 lenses plus a fast 50 and anything long. Other than some esoteric items (85 portrait, Speedlight, tripod, sherpa), that's it. You're done.

The advantage of FF digital is not prime lenses; its the phenomenal zooms.

Well actually Pentax does not need to design a FF camera, they alreay have one. The MZ-S digital. It never saw production, but they did made a working prototype. If they really wanted to, they could use that body and alter some things for a new FF sensor.
06-29-2011, 07:39 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
Making out with girls in the ... wait, that was high school, and might have something to do with my darkroom nostalgia :
: Being the guy who controlled the keys to the darkroom at an all boys school, i can tell you it was damn handy when the girls school came to visit for dance (fridge for the booze and a lock on the door )
06-29-2011, 07:47 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
Well actually Pentax does not need to design a FF camera, they alreay have one. The MZ-S digital. It never saw production, but they did made a working prototype. If they really wanted to, they could use that body and alter some things for a new FF sensor.
If I remember the MZD was a pretty sweet looking piece of gear as well

06-29-2011, 08:03 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
: Being the guy who controlled the keys to the darkroom at an all boys school, i can tell you it was damn handy when the girls school came to visit for dance (fridge for the booze and a lock on the door )
LOL Yeah. I was one of two "Staff Photographers" for the yearbook/newspaper (same organization). Lock the door and turn off the lights and it didn't matter who came knocking. "Sorry, I'm all dark right now. Come back in five minutes." And my school was co-ed.

06-29-2011, 08:04 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
If I remember the MZD was a pretty sweet looking piece of gear as well
Your picture only shows me the "broken jpeg" icon, but I googled the Pentax MZD, and it was a very cool looking bit of kit.
06-29-2011, 08:34 AM   #100
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None of the darkrooms I frequented in my youth (up to age 26) were coed. This likely severely stunted my social development. Yes, that's the source of my trauma! What an insight! I can blame the darkrooms for my antisocial behaviours! [all the voices in /me head concur]

Yes, having imperfect tools forces one to creativity. Toy lenses should incite creative tricks, will require more work to produce outstanding images. Is one a Holga lens? A "New Optical Lens" 50/8, made of the finest plastic recycled from soda bottles? Wow, that should unleash genius!

Superior lenses? High-res bodies? Stunning IQ? Feh! Make an oatmeal-carton pinhole camera! Hammer some chips from a lens objective! Get a cheap wide-angle adapter! Make the most with the least! Unleash those creative juices! [/me loads more outdated film into Brownie]
06-29-2011, 08:45 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
None of the darkrooms I frequented in my youth (up to age 26) were coed. This likely severely stunted my social development. Yes, that's the source of my trauma! What an insight! I can blame the darkrooms for my antisocial behaviours! [all the voices in /me head concur]

Yes, having imperfect tools forces one to creativity. Toy lenses should incite creative tricks, will require more work to produce outstanding images. Is one a Holga lens? A "New Optical Lens" 50/8, made of the finest plastic recycled from soda bottles? Wow, that should unleash genius!

Superior lenses? High-res bodies? Stunning IQ? Feh! Make an oatmeal-carton pinhole camera! Hammer some chips from a lens objective! Get a cheap wide-angle adapter! Make the most with the least! Unleash those creative juices! [/me loads more outdated film into Brownie]
LOL! You were deprived. OTOH, think of all the EXTRA TIME you spent actually doing photography while I was wasting my time on teenage girls.

I think your humorous observations are very salient, though. I mean, it depends on which way you go at it, doesn't it? I've seen excellent art displays made with SX-70 images, and one with tons of 4x6 prints collaged together, that were fascinating. You can make wonderful art with anything, I think, if you set out and say "I want to make some wonderful art. Let's see what tools I have access to."

But, more often, I think photographers say "Ooh, that's beautiful. I would like to produce an artistic rendering of that thing." Whereupon we must needs acquire a 600mm f4 lens, a K-5, a gimbal mount, and a very heavy duty tripod, to photograph the elusive Brown-Breasted Crested Nuthatch in its native habitat, with dramatic sunset backlight. Or to get that precise DOF where the left eye is in focus, but the right eye is not, we must obtain a FF camera and slap an 85mm f1.4 on it, because if her RIGHT eye was in focus, it wouldn't be ART(tm)...
06-29-2011, 08:55 AM   #102
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MZ-D prototype compliments of Dimitrov

http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/bodies/prototypes/MZ-D.jpg

MZ-D
06-29-2011, 09:35 AM   #103
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yep, and it would have been the first FF DSLR if it had gone into production
06-29-2011, 10:10 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
yep, and it would have been the first FF DSLR if it had gone into production
Yeah well Contax did release with that crappy Phillips CCD (it was on the market less than a year) and look where they are now. it had a low iso of 25 though (cool) but got really noisy above 100 iso (not so cool)
Kyocera killed the brand shortly thereafter (after releasing 1 Contax point and shoot - never releasing a digital yashica)
maybe it's better it was just a prototype
06-29-2011, 10:13 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
LOL! You were deprived. OTOH, think of all the EXTRA TIME you spent actually doing photography while I was wasting my time on teenage girls.
I could have handled a bit more pleasantly wasted time.

In my US Army days, I lived in barracks, rather than spend money on off-post rooms. That money went to buying camera gear instead. I knew (and cared for) nobody off-post; my free time was spent in darkroom rather than in dark bars. My LT was a non-standard chap, wrote a bio of his childhood buddy Vaugn Bode (underground cartoonist who auto-asphyxiated himself), lived alone in BOQ. We had interesting chats on how such monastic environments foster creativity as sublimation for sex.

Yeah, intense darkroom work is rewarding. But I'd rather have got laid.

ObTopic: Do FF cameras get you laid? Which is more seductive: Canon, Nikon, Sony? Would Pentax FF be a babe magnet?
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