Why I don't like the "if you want a full-frame camera, switch to Canikon" argument.

Blue · 07-02-2011, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

I tried NX 20 and 30 a couple of times. You can find the NX 30 test here: Samsung NX 30mm f/2 - Review / Test Report - Analysis

And these are DA 35Ltd, DA 35 and FA 35:
Pentax SMC DA 35mm f/2.8 Limited macro - Review / Test Report - Analysis
Pentax SMC DA 35mm f/2.4 AL - Review / Lens Test - Analysis
Pentax SMC-FA 35mm f/2 AL - Review / Test Report - Sample Images & Verdict

Samsung: 4 stars and good resolution figures at the cost of DA 35
DA35Ltd: 3.5 stars and the worst resolution, and THE COST. Macro freaks can love it though.
DA35: 3.5 to 4 stars, slightly worse resolution than one of samsung
FA35: 4 stars, the same resolution with samsung, it heavier and larger though. The cost is twice higher.

I couldn't find any proper NX 20 testing in the web. But since I tried the DA 21Ltd, and have CZ Distagon 21, I can make evaluations I suppose.
So, my opinion is the NX 20 is very good. Definitely better than 21Ltd. Not as good as Distagon, but the difference between them is less than one between NX 20 and 21Ltd. But (NX20 + 30f2) Kit + 20f2.8 + 16f2.4 in will cost less than one Distagon, and the weight would be only slight more than one of Distagon (400g + 90g + 90g + 90g)! And it would be lighter and smaller than K-5 + DA 35 + DA21Ltd + DA15Ltd. And the IQ will be better: 18mp sensor with more DR, about the same high ISO performance combined with better lenses.
So I don't really see a point why newcomers should buy Pentax with tons of quality issues if they don't have bunch of FA stars and limiteds.

#1: You are comparing across systems plus a 14.6 mp sensor with a 10 mp sensor.

#2: The NX does distortion control on the lenses in the body like the m4/3 system does.

#3: The star rating has nothing to do with the actual numerical data in the tests.

#4: Photozone isn't the most Pentax friendly site given they often give a thumbs up to Nikon or Canon gear that performs at a lower level than similar gear by other brands including Pentax.

Samsung NX 30 mm f/2.0 review - Distortion - Lenstip.com

Nothing wrong with the system for what it is but it isn't a dSLR.

Last edited by Blue; 07-02-2011 at 08:36 AM.

jstevewhite · 07-02-2011, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Blue

And your point is?

:sarcasm:

Oh, that sarcasm tag is awesome! I've never seen that before! ROFLMAO!

jstevewhite · 07-02-2011, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

I tried NX 20 and 30 a couple of times. You can find the NX 30 test here: Samsung NX 30mm f/2 - Review / Test Report - Analysis

And these are DA 35Ltd, DA 35 and FA 35:
Pentax SMC DA 35mm f/2.8 Limited macro - Review / Test Report - Analysis
Pentax SMC DA 35mm f/2.4 AL - Review / Lens Test - Analysis
Pentax SMC-FA 35mm f/2 AL - Review / Test Report - Sample Images & Verdict

Samsung: 4 stars and good resolution figures at the cost of DA 35
DA35Ltd: 3.5 stars and the worst resolution, and THE COST. Macro freaks can love it though.
DA35: 3.5 to 4 stars, slightly worse resolution than one of samsung
FA35: 4 stars, the same resolution with samsung, it heavier and larger though. The cost is twice higher.

Those links don't say what you're suggeting they do. The Samsung starts out very good and makes it to excellent. The FA35 starts out good with better edge-to-edge performance, and goes to outstanding, with much higher edge-to-edge resolution. The DAL is better from the start. What you're claiming *might* be true of the DA35ltd - I had one, and it's not nearly as sharp as the FA35f2. Regardless, as photozone.de REPEATEDLY cautions, you can't use the evaluations for comparison between different sensors.

Quote:

I couldn't find any proper NX 20 testing in the web. But since I tried the DA 21Ltd, and have CZ Distagon 21, I can make evaluations I suppose.
So, my opinion is the NX 20 is very good. Definitely better than 21Ltd. Not as good as Distagon, but the difference between them is less than one between NX 20 and 21Ltd. But (NX20 + 30f2) Kit + 20f2.8 + 16f2.4 in will cost less than one Distagon, and the weight would be only slight more than one of Distagon (400g + 90g + 90g + 90g)! And it would be lighter and smaller than K-5 + DA 35 + DA21Ltd + DA15Ltd. And the IQ will be better: 18mp sensor with more DR, about the same high ISO performance combined with better lenses.
So I don't really see a point why newcomers should buy Pentax with tons of quality issues if they don't have bunch of FA stars and limiteds.

You're entitled to your opinions. I only challenge you because you present them as though they're facts - and so far the information you've provided doesn't support your claims. Even if we translate the numbers directly between sensors, which photozone repeatedly says you shouldn't do.

**Ash** · 07-02-2011, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Emacs

I don't see any point to buy Pentax DA pancakes nowdays, this market is over for DSLRs

Seems you're just sold out on the EVIL system.
Just as there is a benefit in FF over APS-C, there is considerable benefit of Pentax APS-C over the Q or the NX or whatever EVILs there are around; in more ways than one. You can justify it all you like yourself, but that doesn't change dSLR's utility amidst this new technology. It's fine to have a personal preference, but if you keep asserting how much the NX system is superior over Pentax APS-C, you might find your credibility starting to flake...

DA 35 ltd, the worst? In what? Criticising a higher-end macro over a consumer non-macro of the same focal length in this way is like disparaging a heavy-duty 4WD vehicle for not having as smooth a ride as a Toyota Camry.

Last edited by Ash; 07-02-2011 at 01:28 PM.

**Aristophanes** · 07-02-2011, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by RBellavance

Agreed, although I'd tone it down to "a niche future".

The big money niche.

There is a robust MF market with no less than 6 suppliers and bodies selling for $20,000.

Porsche is a niche. I'd rather have one than a Camry.

yeatzee · 07-02-2011, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by Emacs

and the ever stupid decision to build 85 f1.4 for APS-C system, they better introduced some kind of 50 f1.X/55 f1.X

Am I the only one that LOVES 85mm on APSC? I'd have no choice but to purchase a fast 135mm if I shot FF.

Macario · 07-03-2011, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by Emacs

Didn't you get the point Samsung NX lenses are superior to Pentax DA analogues both optically and by weight? The NX 2* will likely have better sensor than even K-5. And this will cost twice cheaper than K-5. What's the point then in buying Pentax? Only larger sensor will make Pentax a good choice.

any sensor that si newer will be better than the older sensor, so your point is?

la_nonna · 07-04-2011, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

Didn't you get the point Samsung NX lenses are superior to Pentax DA analogues both optically and by weight? The NX 2* will likely have better sensor than even K-5. And this will cost twice cheaper than K-5. What's the point then in buying Pentax? Only larger sensor will make Pentax a good choice.

Someone should kick off 15 years old troll :ugh:

**Rondec** · 07-04-2011, 03:50 AM

Samsung is clearly way behind Sony when it comes to sensor development. I am sure they are coming up something to answer Sony's newest 16 megapixel sensor, but the reality is the Sony is working on the next generation that will pass that up. For whatever reason, Samsung hasn't been able to do any better than the sensor that was in the K20/K7. Its sad really...

TaoMaas · 07-04-2011, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by yeatzee

Am I the only one that LOVES 85mm on APSC?

No, you're not.

RioRico · 07-04-2011, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by yeatzee

Am I the only one that LOVES 85mm on APSC?

Yes, it's just you.

Nobody else wants 85mm lenses.

All those high 85mm prices are just a conspiracy.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-04-2011, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by yeatzee

Am I the only one that LOVES 85mm on APSC? I'd have no choice but to purchase a fast 135mm if I shot FF.

No you are not. I have DA*55mm/f1.4 and FA*85mm/f1.4 and I would like to these two a DA*135mm/f2.0 to complete this magnificent lensline of portraitlenses.

Blue · 07-04-2011, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

No you are not. I have DA*55mm/f1.4 and FA*85mm/f1.4 and I would like to these two a DA*135mm/f2.0 to complete this magnificent lensline of portraitlenses.

Are you sure you wouldn't prefer a DA L 135/4 to complete your line?

(without a hood to keep the price down)

Blue · 07-04-2011, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

Yes, it's just you.

Nobody else wants 85mm lenses.

All those high 85mm prices are just a conspiracy.

The conspiracy runs so deep that I have been making do with an FA 77 ltd.

paperbag846 · 07-04-2011, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by GeneV

An interesting point. We've seen more new in cropped sensors lately. I wonder if Nikon is finding the market for a 2.5 lb body than costs $3-5k may not be as huge as expected.

This is why I would never buy a FF camera even if it was 500 dollars. I want a small tool, I value compactness.

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07-02-2011, 08:29 AM	#151
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Emacs I tried NX 20 and 30 a couple of times. You can find the NX 30 test here: Samsung NX 30mm f/2 - Review / Test Report - Analysis And these are DA 35Ltd, DA 35 and FA 35: Pentax SMC DA 35mm f/2.8 Limited macro - Review / Test Report - Analysis Pentax SMC DA 35mm f/2.4 AL - Review / Lens Test - Analysis Pentax SMC-FA 35mm f/2 AL - Review / Test Report - Sample Images & Verdict Samsung: 4 stars and good resolution figures at the cost of DA 35 DA35Ltd: 3.5 stars and the worst resolution, and THE COST. Macro freaks can love it though. DA35: 3.5 to 4 stars, slightly worse resolution than one of samsung FA35: 4 stars, the same resolution with samsung, it heavier and larger though. The cost is twice higher. I couldn't find any proper NX 20 testing in the web. But since I tried the DA 21Ltd, and have CZ Distagon 21, I can make evaluations I suppose. So, my opinion is the NX 20 is very good. Definitely better than 21Ltd. Not as good as Distagon, but the difference between them is less than one between NX 20 and 21Ltd. But (NX20 + 30f2) Kit + 20f2.8 + 16f2.4 in will cost less than one Distagon, and the weight would be only slight more than one of Distagon (400g + 90g + 90g + 90g)! And it would be lighter and smaller than K-5 + DA 35 + DA21Ltd + DA15Ltd. And the IQ will be better: 18mp sensor with more DR, about the same high ISO performance combined with better lenses. So I don't really see a point why newcomers should buy Pentax with tons of quality issues if they don't have bunch of FA stars and limiteds. #1: You are comparing across systems plus a 14.6 mp sensor with a 10 mp sensor. #2: The NX does distortion control on the lenses in the body like the m4/3 system does. #3: The star rating has nothing to do with the actual numerical data in the tests. #4: Photozone isn't the most Pentax friendly site given they often give a thumbs up to Nikon or Canon gear that performs at a lower level than similar gear by other brands including Pentax. Samsung NX 30 mm f/2.0 review - Distortion - Lenstip.com Nothing wrong with the system for what it is but it isn't a dSLR. Last edited by Blue; 07-02-2011 at 08:36 AM.

07-02-2011, 08:35 AM	#152
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by Blue And your point is? :sarcasm: Oh, that sarcasm tag is awesome! I've never seen that before! ROFLMAO!

07-02-2011, 08:50 AM	#153
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by Emacs I tried NX 20 and 30 a couple of times. You can find the NX 30 test here: Samsung NX 30mm f/2 - Review / Test Report - Analysis And these are DA 35Ltd, DA 35 and FA 35: Pentax SMC DA 35mm f/2.8 Limited macro - Review / Test Report - Analysis Pentax SMC DA 35mm f/2.4 AL - Review / Lens Test - Analysis Pentax SMC-FA 35mm f/2 AL - Review / Test Report - Sample Images & Verdict Samsung: 4 stars and good resolution figures at the cost of DA 35 DA35Ltd: 3.5 stars and the worst resolution, and THE COST. Macro freaks can love it though. DA35: 3.5 to 4 stars, slightly worse resolution than one of samsung FA35: 4 stars, the same resolution with samsung, it heavier and larger though. The cost is twice higher. Those links don't say what you're suggeting they do. The Samsung starts out very good and makes it to excellent. The FA35 starts out good with better edge-to-edge performance, and goes to outstanding, with much higher edge-to-edge resolution. The DAL is better from the start. What you're claiming might be true of the DA35ltd - I had one, and it's not nearly as sharp as the FA35f2. Regardless, as photozone.de REPEATEDLY cautions, you can't use the evaluations for comparison between different sensors. Quote: I couldn't find any proper NX 20 testing in the web. But since I tried the DA 21Ltd, and have CZ Distagon 21, I can make evaluations I suppose. So, my opinion is the NX 20 is very good. Definitely better than 21Ltd. Not as good as Distagon, but the difference between them is less than one between NX 20 and 21Ltd. But (NX20 + 30f2) Kit + 20f2.8 + 16f2.4 in will cost less than one Distagon, and the weight would be only slight more than one of Distagon (400g + 90g + 90g + 90g)! And it would be lighter and smaller than K-5 + DA 35 + DA21Ltd + DA15Ltd. And the IQ will be better: 18mp sensor with more DR, about the same high ISO performance combined with better lenses. So I don't really see a point why newcomers should buy Pentax with tons of quality issues if they don't have bunch of FA stars and limiteds. You're entitled to your opinions. I only challenge you because you present them as though they're facts - and so far the information you've provided doesn't support your claims. Even if we translate the numbers directly between sensors, which photozone repeatedly says you shouldn't do.

07-02-2011, 01:23 PM	#154
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Originally posted by Emacs I don't see any point to buy Pentax DA pancakes nowdays, this market is over for DSLRs Seems you're just sold out on the EVIL system. Just as there is a benefit in FF over APS-C, there is considerable benefit of Pentax APS-C over the Q or the NX or whatever EVILs there are around; in more ways than one. You can justify it all you like yourself, but that doesn't change dSLR's utility amidst this new technology. It's fine to have a personal preference, but if you keep asserting how much the NX system is superior over Pentax APS-C, you might find your credibility starting to flake... DA 35 ltd, the worst? In what? Criticising a higher-end macro over a consumer non-macro of the same focal length in this way is like disparaging a heavy-duty 4WD vehicle for not having as smooth a ride as a Toyota Camry. Last edited by Ash; 07-02-2011 at 01:28 PM.

07-02-2011, 02:16 PM	#155
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by RBellavance Agreed, although I'd tone it down to "a niche future". The big money niche. There is a robust MF market with no less than 6 suppliers and bodies selling for $20,000. Porsche is a niche. I'd rather have one than a Camry.

07-02-2011, 03:37 PM	#156
yeatzee Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Temecula Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,675	Originally posted by Emacs and the ever stupid decision to build 85 f1.4 for APS-C system, they better introduced some kind of 50 f1.X/55 f1.X Am I the only one that LOVES 85mm on APSC? I'd have no choice but to purchase a fast 135mm if I shot FF.

07-03-2011, 12:50 PM	#157
Macario Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Hoek van Holland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,393	Originally posted by Emacs Didn't you get the point Samsung NX lenses are superior to Pentax DA analogues both optically and by weight? The NX 2* will likely have better sensor than even K-5. And this will cost twice cheaper than K-5. What's the point then in buying Pentax? Only larger sensor will make Pentax a good choice. any sensor that si newer will be better than the older sensor, so your point is?

07-04-2011, 12:48 AM	#158
la_nonna New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: ragusa, Sicily Posts: 14	Originally posted by Emacs Didn't you get the point Samsung NX lenses are superior to Pentax DA analogues both optically and by weight? The NX 2* will likely have better sensor than even K-5. And this will cost twice cheaper than K-5. What's the point then in buying Pentax? Only larger sensor will make Pentax a good choice. Someone should kick off 15 years old troll :ugh:

07-04-2011, 03:50 AM	#159
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Samsung is clearly way behind Sony when it comes to sensor development. I am sure they are coming up something to answer Sony's newest 16 megapixel sensor, but the reality is the Sony is working on the next generation that will pass that up. For whatever reason, Samsung hasn't been able to do any better than the sensor that was in the K20/K7. Its sad really...

07-04-2011, 04:18 AM	#160
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by yeatzee Am I the only one that LOVES 85mm on APSC? No, you're not.

07-04-2011, 06:29 AM	#161
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by yeatzee Am I the only one that LOVES 85mm on APSC? Yes, it's just you. Nobody else wants 85mm lenses. All those high 85mm prices are just a conspiracy.

07-04-2011, 07:24 AM	#162
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by yeatzee Am I the only one that LOVES 85mm on APSC? I'd have no choice but to purchase a fast 135mm if I shot FF. No you are not. I have DA55mm/f1.4 and FA85mm/f1.4 and I would like to these two a DA*135mm/f2.0 to complete this magnificent lensline of portraitlenses.

07-04-2011, 06:16 PM	#163
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 No you are not. I have DA55mm/f1.4 and FA85mm/f1.4 and I would like to these two a DA*135mm/f2.0 to complete this magnificent lensline of portraitlenses. Are you sure you wouldn't prefer a DA L 135/4 to complete your line? (without a hood to keep the price down)

07-04-2011, 06:17 PM	#164
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by RioRico Yes, it's just you. Nobody else wants 85mm lenses. All those high 85mm prices are just a conspiracy. The conspiracy runs so deep that I have been making do with an FA 77 ltd.

07-04-2011, 08:40 PM	#165
paperbag846 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,395	Originally posted by GeneV An interesting point. We've seen more new in cropped sensors lately. I wonder if Nikon is finding the market for a 2.5 lb body than costs $3-5k may not be as huge as expected. This is why I would never buy a FF camera even if it was 500 dollars. I want a small tool, I value compactness.