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06-26-2011, 11:02 PM - 3 Likes   #1
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Why I don't like the "if you want a full-frame camera, switch to Canikon" argument.

Hi everyone,

Although I have only joined the forums recently, I have been reading them for a while. One of the sentiments I've seen is that those of us who would like Pentax to release a full frame DSLR should move to another system rather than wanting Pentax to be something other than the company it is.

This idea has bothered me for a while, but I wasn't sure. Why. After all, it is true that the other companies are already offering this cameras, whereas Pentax is not.

I have finally realized why I strongly disagree with the argument.

I began exploring photography in 2000. My first camera was a K1000, which I bought simply because a friend was selling it.The reason I decided to buy an slr in 2000 was that I had recently taken an interest in motion picture production, and was about to take a production workshop which required that I own an slr. As my interest in motion pictures was actually as a writer. I had little use for a camera.

Over the years, as I continued writing and directing short films, it became clear to me that I needed to gain an understanding of the photographic image in order to become an effective filmmaker. I started taking classes in still photography and lighting.

Eventually, my passion shifted towards photography, and I ceased writing and directing films, and I am currently enrolled in graduate school for cinematography in a program that is considered to be one of the best in the country.

This would never have happened if I had not received photographic training, and still photography is still a passion of mine. I have gone from having a marginal interest in photography to having the desire to make the creation of imagery.

Every meaningful image I have ever created has been with a Pentax camera. My collection of lenses has been accumulated throughout the years, with a great deal of thought and dedication.

In the future, I would like to have a camera body that is capable of taking full advantage of the original design of my manual lenses (all of which are m-series). I would also like to return to the depth of field characteristics of the original format I fell in love with, which is the 24mm x 36mm imaging surface. It would be somewhat heart-breaking if it were necessary for me to switch to another brand and system to do this.

I think I can speak on behalf of more than a few of us who would like to see a full-frame camera AND would like it to be a Pentax.

06-26-2011, 11:22 PM   #2
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Nice intro to how you came to were you're at. As a novice, I find it very interesting seeing what paths others have traveled to get where they are now, either as a hobby or professionally.

With regard to your point though, just to offer another newbie to the forums take on it - I found the argument you present isn't bantered about quite that freely - that style of response is usually returned for the people thumping fists and 'demanding' Pentax deliver one now. Or just complaining 'their' R+D dollars are being 'wasted' on not delivering them an FF camera.

I think everyone would love to see a Pentax FF - but I think the reality is that right now, Pentax have chosen to 'fry some other fish' so to speak... Here is hoping it changes, but its not likely to at least short term. And therefore, people would seem to get a little frustrated at the same old 'complaints' being trotted out - hence the rather curt and short ' don't like it, leave' type response.

Anyway - just my irrelevant thoughts...
06-26-2011, 11:23 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
Hi everyone,

Although I have only joined the forums recently, I have been reading them for a while. One of the sentiments I've seen is that those of us who would like Pentax to release a full frame DSLR should move to another system rather than wanting Pentax to be something other than the company it is.
Usually when I see that sort of response, it's to someone who says things like "Pentax cannot be used by serious photographer because they have no FF camera." Or "Pentax sux because they only have crop sensor" or "You can't make good image with crop sensor" or "It's just silly to think that you can make good images with crappy crop sensor". There are many people who don't belittle the quite respectable capabilities of the current Pentax machines (that exceed those of most FF cameras ever made, I might point out) yet still would like a full frame camera from the marque.
06-26-2011, 11:33 PM   #4
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Pentax has the right to make whatever cameras they like and that they feel will make a profit for them. Maybe they don't think it's what will benefit their bottom line. Maybe they have other ideas as to what kinds of cameras they want to produce. That's their call to make. It's their money they're using to develop new cameras. Shouldn't the choice be theirs and theirs alone?

I can understand it's a frustration to some of us, but fussing and fretting over something that we have no control over and over a decision that isn't simply isn't ours to make isn't very practical. Pentax has it's own game plan I am sure and they have their reasons for not going there at present. We can't really read their minds so why waste time trying?

I dearly love Pentax too but that wouldn't stop me from buying other non-Pentax equipment to compliment my Pentax gear if I truly felt I needed it. I'm actually a fan of a certain brand of TV, but that company makes nothing decent in terms of an all region DVD player recorder and probably never will. But I had a need for an all region player. So I went out and got one finally from someone else that did make them. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have liked my TV and DVD to be the same, or that I don't wish that company would just make one, but it simply wasn't possible so I just bought where I could and that was that.

06-26-2011, 11:38 PM   #5
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Depends on what you want. Unlike Canikon, their history is not limited to 35mm and that is still the case today with the 645d. Perhaps not a good long run strategy, but we'll see.
06-26-2011, 11:53 PM   #6
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I have been shooting for over a half-century. I am brand-agnostic. I use what works, that I can afford. So I own(ed) cameras branded Argus, Canon, FED, Fuji, Kodak, Minolta, Olympus, Pentax, Petri, Praktica, Sears, Sony, Voigtlander, Yashica, Zeiss, and others, some rather obscure. I do not base my identity upon a corporate logo.

I now use M42 and PK (d)SLRs and many many compatible lenses. But I am not married to Pentax. If I could afford them, I would buy Sony NEX and A850 cameras, while keeping my K20D. The lenses remain usable. In fact, I would have more lens options. If Pentax releases comparable bodies, wonderful! If not, I will survive.

Many here desire a Pentax FF camera. PenHoya says it won't happen anytime soon. I won't argue. Let the fantasies and rumours fly -- I have a Kodak Monitor 6x9cm folder to tinker with. Can't beat the resolution!
06-27-2011, 12:34 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
Hi everyone,

Although I have only joined the forums recently, I have been reading them for a while. One of the sentiments I've seen is that those of us who would like Pentax to release a full frame DSLR should move to another system rather than wanting Pentax to be something other than the company it is.

This idea has bothered me for a while, but I wasn't sure. Why. After all, it is true that the other companies are already offering this cameras, whereas Pentax is not.

I have finally realized why I strongly disagree with the argument.

I began exploring photography in 2000. My first camera was a K1000, which I bought simply because a friend was selling it.The reason I decided to buy an slr in 2000 was that I had recently taken an interest in motion picture production, and was about to take a production workshop which required that I own an slr. As my interest in motion pictures was actually as a writer. I had little use for a camera.

Over the years, as I continued writing and directing short films, it became clear to me that I needed to gain an understanding of the photographic image in order to become an effective filmmaker. I started taking classes in still photography and lighting.

Eventually, my passion shifted towards photography, and I ceased writing and directing films, and I am currently enrolled in graduate school for cinematography in a program that is considered to be one of the best in the country.

This would never have happened if I had not received photographic training, and still photography is still a passion of mine. I have gone from having a marginal interest in photography to having the desire to make the creation of imagery.

Every meaningful image I have ever created has been with a Pentax camera. My collection of lenses has been accumulated throughout the years, with a great deal of thought and dedication.

In the future, I would like to have a camera body that is capable of taking full advantage of the original design of my manual lenses (all of which are m-series). I would also like to return to the depth of field characteristics of the original format I fell in love with, which is the 24mm x 36mm imaging surface. It would be somewhat heart-breaking if it were necessary for me to switch to another brand and system to do this.

I think I can speak on behalf of more than a few of us who would like to see a full-frame camera AND would like it to be a Pentax.
Wait for the FF mirrorless. With peaks shooting manually is not a big pain. On the other hand, don't buy anything from pentax, it's quite reasonable, since the modern pentax is nowhere as good optically as it was in 80s and 90s.
06-27-2011, 12:39 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Wait for the FF mirrorless. With peaks shooting manually is not a big pain. On the other hand, don't buy anything from pentax, it's quite reasonable, since the modern pentax is nowhere as good optically as it was in 80s and 90s.
Mmm... If you're talking about the sparse lens line, I'll agree. If you're talking about absolute IQ, I'd like to see some evidence that this is the case, rather than just the bare assertion.

06-27-2011, 12:44 AM   #9
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If you shoot M series lenses you could buy a Canon 5d (≈ $300) and a PK --> EOS adapter ($15-30).

Bam, Full Frame. I'm looking at this option right now...

I AM still hoping for a pentax FF though; There's really nothing else like those Sony Exmor sensors combined with these wonderful ergonomics...

Last edited by RXrenesis8; 06-27-2011 at 12:50 AM.
06-27-2011, 12:54 AM   #10
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Good intro.
A fair enough position to hold, however magkelly points it out quite nicely: it's not just market demand that determines technological development. And Pentax seem to want to hold their stance as a niche photographic company adhering to their raison d'etre. There is also the smaller market share they hold, and consequently the limited R&D budget as well as the sheer investment power in general that the big guns have over Pentax. So it's not as simple as 'Pentax should give us a FF camera because it's been long enough' or 'All the other brands have FF cameras so Pentax should have one too'.
06-27-2011, 01:28 AM - 1 Like   #11
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It is not just Pentax who are retreating from FF. It's been about 18 months or more since Canon, Nikon or Sony released a new or updated FF body, and recently Sony dropped the A850 from their lineup even. The glacial tempo of FF product development says something about the current market for FF technology.
06-27-2011, 03:25 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
Mmm... If you're talking about the sparse lens line, I'll agree. If you're talking about absolute IQ, I'd like to see some evidence that this is the case, rather than just the bare assertion.
The samsung nx lenses have better IQ, canon lenses have better IQ, nikon lenses have better IQ
06-27-2011, 03:31 AM   #13
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Basically, whether we like it or not, Pentax has shown no interest in 35mm sized sensors. Waiting and hoping that they will someday make a camera with one in it, just doesn't seem like it is in the cards in the immediate future. I understand people's desire for such a camera, I just don't think waiting for it is wise and complaining on the forum about it doesn't change Hoya's game plan either.
06-27-2011, 05:11 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
It is not just Pentax who are retreating from FF. It's been about 18 months or more since Canon, Nikon or Sony released a new or updated FF body, and recently Sony dropped the A850 from their lineup even. The glacial tempo of FF product development says something about the current market for FF technology.
An interesting point. We've seen more new in cropped sensors lately. I wonder if Nikon is finding the market for a 2.5 lb body than costs $3-5k may not be as huge as expected.
06-27-2011, 05:23 AM   #15
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From the Pentax-Q FAQ posted in the "in-the-flesh" thread, they do offer this:

Q56: Will you launch full-frame camera in the near future
A: We do not have anything we could go in detail

That doesn't sound like a closed door by any means....
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