Any bird toggers here use K-7 or K-R ?

Squier · 07-06-2011, 10:41 PM

Its time to move the K200D on and since the K-5 is out of the question, it leaves me with K-7 or K-R, since i'm not willing to move away from Pentax

I'm primarily a bird togger, so portraits / architecture / landscapes are secondary. I could care less whether a body has video. Personally i think they should leave video to camcorders, but thats another story.

I dont shoot for record shots - i shoot ( and sometimes fail - i'm human ) for quality bird photos, so IQ is first. AF accuracy / speed is very useful too when it comes to the birds. Fast SS is also a requirement when bird togging, so ISO speed IQ needs to be taken into account

Of all the hundreds of posts and threads regarding these 2 options, it seems one trades one thing for another, so its a real head scratcher making a decision, hence i'm interested mainly in what the serious bird togger would choose, or already uses, and why. I'll be using a mixture of MF and AF lenses.

Close bird shots are sometimes a pain with the K200 due to the shutter noise. I guess this is an issue with K-R, but Live View can be very useful for birds, and i read thats its an improvement over its companions.
I also read on Image Resource that the sensor on the K-R kicked the K-7, but the the K-7 has a Pentaprism vs. Pentamirror on K-R.

Looks like i'm as stuck in deciding on which one as a lot of people have been previously, but at least i've narrowed things down. Bird togging is primary for me, so if the bird toggers can say why they love their K-7 or why they love their K-R for that purpose, i'd love to hear it.

PS i shoot RAW exclusively and use CS4 Extended / ACR 5.6

kenafein · 07-06-2011, 10:57 PM

The K-r is very loud. I think it is louder than my k100d. I only shoot seabirds and they don't care, but I imagine little birds could be a problem.

selar · 07-06-2011, 10:59 PM

I have absolutely no idea what bird togging is and neither does Google), but get the K-r not the K7.

Classico · 07-06-2011, 11:03 PM

looking back I would have got the K7 over my Kr now. And yes the Kr is very loud also didnt work with my flash that I could use on my old ist.

**Digitalis** · 07-07-2011, 01:19 AM

I actually find the High Shutter speeds to be rather redundant with my work - in a majority of my wildlife photographs I have used fill flash in some form, and that means hand holding a 200mm+ (300mm on APS-C) lens at 1/180th flash synch speed of pentax cameras* - I never use HSS because it kills the range of the flash too much. I use a Sigma 100-300mm f/4 APO EX DG for a majority of my work - unfortunately that lens is discontinued.

the K-7 is very quiet in terms of shutter noise, most animals don't notice it even when I am really close. Also I have been experimenting with Wireless flash for my wildlife work, because there is this tendencey for wildlife photographers to use the flash mounted on the camera and this causes the images to have the same "look" which gets a bit boring after a while.

*and I sometimes use even slower shutter speeds than that to balance flash with the ambient light, and for moments like those a good monopod is essential.

cbaytan · 07-07-2011, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by Squier

Its time to move the K200D on and since the K-5 is out of the question, it leaves me with K-7 or K-R, since i'm not willing to move away from Pentax

I've just sold my K-7 and purchased a new K200D, since my old K200D confiscated .by wife, . I am so content because of my K200D's IQ also able to I got rid of the damn K-7. FYI. Regarding the IQ. Shutter noise, oh yeah K-7 was incredibly silent.

rawr · 07-07-2011, 04:17 AM

K-x is also an option to keep on the table since it's high ISO is better than both the K-r and K-7, according to DXO.

But the downside is, like the K-r, if you get close enough, that the shutter noise on the K-x is quite loud. Many of my bird subjects do notice it. Sometimes I drape a towel or cloth over the camera body to muffle the noise. Maybe an investment in a leather camera case would also serve to muffle the K-r/K-x shutter noise.

wildman · 07-07-2011, 05:00 AM

Originally posted by selar

I have absolutely no idea what bird togging is and neither does Google), but get the K-r not the K7.

'togger

slang for photographer; specifically, one who takes photographs out of a passion for photography rather than for fame/money/attention of opposite sex/klondike bar/etc.
"Ryan is the opposite of a 'togger, he only takes pictures because he thinks it makes him look cool with the ladies. What a poser."

Northern English dialect

Squier · 07-07-2011, 05:58 AM

Thanks people - The K-X is not an option for me. Birds are sometimes small in the frame, and you cant always be on top of them for frame filling results, therefore i need AF point illumination in the VF. This also goes for birds in flight. Tracking a bird without visible AF points makes life unneceesarily hard.

I'd like to be able to use ISO 100 > 800 most of the time, and only rarely venture up to ISO 1600 on a few occasions, so perhaps the K-7 would cut it at those ISO settings. I realise the K-7 missed a trick with noise at higher ISO compared to the KX/KR, but the previous threads / posts here seem to pan out that the K-7 noise issue isnt that much of an issue till 1600 and over.

**Digitalis** · 07-07-2011, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by Squier

the K-7 noise issue isnt that much of an issue till 1600 and over.

which is very true, My k-7 does very well for itself at ISO 400 which is what I use for birding photography quite a bit - even with flash.

Squier · 07-07-2011, 06:51 AM

Thanks Dig

I'm steering myself towards the K-7

What i'd like, and maybe a lot of others too, is parts of ther K-7 mixed in with parts of the K-r.

A K-5 ??

**Ahab** · 07-07-2011, 06:59 AM

You'll do fine with the K7.

Squier · 07-07-2011, 07:02 AM

Thanks ahab

Funny thing - i checked Fleabay UK yesterday .... 15 K-7's for sale, no K-R's

twitch · 07-07-2011, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Squier

Thanks ahab

Funny thing - i checked Fleabay UK yesterday .... 15 K-7's for sale, no K-R's

There's a lot of selling activity on K-7's, great for buyers so I'd be patient and you should get a good deal (under $600, even under $550?) for a lightly used one.

Squier · 07-07-2011, 04:56 PM

I can only work in GBP twitch

Cheapest used i've seen so far is £419 - body only. Thats all i need too, but dont know what that works out in Aussie bucks

Bear in mind that this country sucks for prices on anything - Fuel £6 + per gallon, etc etc

You can buy most things in the US for a 1/3 rd or more cheaper than here. Maybe its the same for Aus

07-06-2011, 10:41 PM	#1
Squier Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxfordshire UK Photos: Albums Posts: 706	Any bird toggers here use K-7 or K-R ? Its time to move the K200D on and since the K-5 is out of the question, it leaves me with K-7 or K-R, since i'm not willing to move away from Pentax I'm primarily a bird togger, so portraits / architecture / landscapes are secondary. I could care less whether a body has video. Personally i think they should leave video to camcorders, but thats another story. I dont shoot for record shots - i shoot ( and sometimes fail - i'm human ) for quality bird photos, so IQ is first. AF accuracy / speed is very useful too when it comes to the birds. Fast SS is also a requirement when bird togging, so ISO speed IQ needs to be taken into account Of all the hundreds of posts and threads regarding these 2 options, it seems one trades one thing for another, so its a real head scratcher making a decision, hence i'm interested mainly in what the serious bird togger would choose, or already uses, and why. I'll be using a mixture of MF and AF lenses. Close bird shots are sometimes a pain with the K200 due to the shutter noise. I guess this is an issue with K-R, but Live View can be very useful for birds, and i read thats its an improvement over its companions. I also read on Image Resource that the sensor on the K-R kicked the K-7, but the the K-7 has a Pentaprism vs. Pentamirror on K-R. Looks like i'm as stuck in deciding on which one as a lot of people have been previously, but at least i've narrowed things down. Bird togging is primary for me, so if the bird toggers can say why they love their K-7 or why they love their K-R for that purpose, i'd love to hear it. PS i shoot RAW exclusively and use CS4 Extended / ACR 5.6

07-07-2011, 01:19 AM	#5
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	I actually find the High Shutter speeds to be rather redundant with my work - in a majority of my wildlife photographs I have used fill flash in some form, and that means hand holding a 200mm+ (300mm on APS-C) lens at 1/180th flash synch speed of pentax cameras* - I never use HSS because it kills the range of the flash too much. I use a Sigma 100-300mm f/4 APO EX DG for a majority of my work - unfortunately that lens is discontinued. the K-7 is very quiet in terms of shutter noise, most animals don't notice it even when I am really close. Also I have been experimenting with Wireless flash for my wildlife work, because there is this tendencey for wildlife photographers to use the flash mounted on the camera and this causes the images to have the same "look" which gets a bit boring after a while. and I sometimes use even slower shutter speeds than that to balance flash with the ambient light, and for moments like those a good monopod is essential. Last edited by Digitalis; 07-07-2011 at 01:25 AM.*

07-07-2011, 02:05 AM	#6
cbaytan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trabzon/Turkey Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,010	Originally posted by Squier Its time to move the K200D on and since the K-5 is out of the question, it leaves me with K-7 or K-R, since i'm not willing to move away from Pentax I've just sold my K-7 and purchased a new K200D, since my old K200D confiscated .by wife, . I am so content because of my K200D's IQ also able to I got rid of the damn K-7. FYI. Regarding the IQ. Shutter noise, oh yeah K-7 was incredibly silent. Last edited by cbaytan; 07-07-2011 at 04:23 AM.

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07-06-2011, 10:57 PM	#2
kenafein Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Southern California Photos: Albums Posts: 4,082	The K-r is very loud. I think it is louder than my k100d. I only shoot seabirds and they don't care, but I imagine little birds could be a problem.

07-06-2011, 10:59 PM	#3
selar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,042	I have absolutely no idea what bird togging is and neither does Google), but get the K-r not the K7.

07-06-2011, 11:03 PM	#4
Classico Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Grand Haven, MI Posts: 119	looking back I would have got the K7 over my Kr now. And yes the Kr is very loud also didnt work with my flash that I could use on my old ist.

07-07-2011, 04:17 AM	#7
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	K-x is also an option to keep on the table since it's high ISO is better than both the K-r and K-7, according to DXO. But the downside is, like the K-r, if you get close enough, that the shutter noise on the K-x is quite loud. Many of my bird subjects do notice it. Sometimes I drape a towel or cloth over the camera body to muffle the noise. Maybe an investment in a leather camera case would also serve to muffle the K-r/K-x shutter noise.

07-07-2011, 05:00 AM	#8
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Originally posted by selar I have absolutely no idea what bird togging is and neither does Google), but get the K-r not the K7. 'togger slang for photographer; specifically, one who takes photographs out of a passion for photography rather than for fame/money/attention of opposite sex/klondike bar/etc. "Ryan is the opposite of a 'togger, he only takes pictures because he thinks it makes him look cool with the ladies. What a poser." Northern English dialect

07-07-2011, 05:58 AM	#9
Squier Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxfordshire UK Photos: Albums Posts: 706 Original Poster	Thanks people - The K-X is not an option for me. Birds are sometimes small in the frame, and you cant always be on top of them for frame filling results, therefore i need AF point illumination in the VF. This also goes for birds in flight. Tracking a bird without visible AF points makes life unneceesarily hard. I'd like to be able to use ISO 100 > 800 most of the time, and only rarely venture up to ISO 1600 on a few occasions, so perhaps the K-7 would cut it at those ISO settings. I realise the K-7 missed a trick with noise at higher ISO compared to the KX/KR, but the previous threads / posts here seem to pan out that the K-7 noise issue isnt that much of an issue till 1600 and over.

07-07-2011, 06:42 AM	#10
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Squier the K-7 noise issue isnt that much of an issue till 1600 and over. which is very true, My k-7 does very well for itself at ISO 400 which is what I use for birding photography quite a bit - even with flash.

07-07-2011, 06:51 AM	#11
Squier Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxfordshire UK Photos: Albums Posts: 706 Original Poster	Thanks Dig I'm steering myself towards the K-7 What i'd like, and maybe a lot of others too, is parts of ther K-7 mixed in with parts of the K-r. A K-5 ??

07-07-2011, 06:59 AM	#12
Ahab Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Arnold, Md. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 762	You'll do fine with the K7.

07-07-2011, 07:02 AM	#13
Squier Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxfordshire UK Photos: Albums Posts: 706 Original Poster	Thanks ahab Funny thing - i checked Fleabay UK yesterday .... 15 K-7's for sale, no K-R's

07-07-2011, 04:20 PM	#14
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Originally posted by Squier Thanks ahab Funny thing - i checked Fleabay UK yesterday .... 15 K-7's for sale, no K-R's There's a lot of selling activity on K-7's, great for buyers so I'd be patient and you should get a good deal (under $600, even under $550?) for a lightly used one.

07-07-2011, 04:56 PM	#15
Squier Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxfordshire UK Photos: Albums Posts: 706 Original Poster	I can only work in GBP twitch Cheapest used i've seen so far is £419 - body only. Thats all i need too, but dont know what that works out in Aussie bucks Bear in mind that this country sucks for prices on anything - Fuel £6 + per gallon, etc etc You can buy most things in the US for a 1/3 rd or more cheaper than here. Maybe its the same for Aus