Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-07-2011, 08:25 AM   #1
Junior Member




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Norway
Posts: 49
Pentax K20D - are JPG-settings affecting the RAW files?

Rumour has it that the JPG settings of most if not all DSLR's are NOT affecting the RAW-files. With my old Nikon D50 that was true, but not with my Nikon D3000. The reason I ask is that my Pentax K20D delivers very sharp RAW-files to the point that I if you didn't know you wouldn't comment that the images needed additional sharpening in post. I do sharpen all my images, but very modest sharpening is really needed. So,-are JPG-settings affecting the RAW-files or not, or does the K20D deliver such sharp images as it seems?

07-07-2011, 08:53 AM   #2
Veteran Member
RioRico's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Limbo, California
Posts: 11,264
Your JPG settings carry over as defaults into RAW processors AFAIK. So if you don't tweak them during RAW development, those settings control the rendering. Let's say I shoot with Sharpness= +4. If I don't change that setting, the RAW developer (I use PPL3, PentaxPhotoLab3) applies that level of sharpening. If I set Sharpness= -4 either in-camera or in PPL3, a softer image emerges. I generally don't diddle with Sharpness, but I often tweak Contrast and WB and dynamic range. I *could* make the Contrast settings in-camera; I prefer to do that in PPL3. Either way, I'm controlling the output. Try changing Sharpness on your camera vs in RAW development. See if there's any difference.
07-07-2011, 10:18 AM   #3
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
QuoteOriginally posted by emtor Quote
Rumour has it that the JPG settings of most if not all DSLR's are NOT affecting the RAW-files. With my old Nikon D50 that was true, but not with my Nikon D3000.
I believe you are mistaken. No camera would have settings like sharpening or WB applied to RAW files - that completely defeats the purpose of RAW. However, as noted, *some* RAW processing software will try to apply *some* of your settings when processing the image. Depends entirely on the specific software, the specific camera model, and the specific settings. So what must be happening is that the software you use happens to be applying the particular D3000 settings you are looking at from the D3000 but not whatever D50 settings you were looking at. The RAw data is not affected in any case, but the image the software produces from that data will look as if the settings were applied. Still, you can change any of those settings in the software and see for yourself that nothing was actually baked into the RAW data.

Also, of course, any settings that affect the actual exposure will of course affect the RAW file. That applies to ISO, aperture, and shutter speed most obviously, but also the various artificial dynamic-range-enhancing settings many modern cameras have.
07-07-2011, 11:49 PM   #4
Junior Member




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Norway
Posts: 49
Original Poster
I'm aware that the camera settings aren't affecting the RAW files as such, but that raw-converters may or may not use these settings as a default when converting the images. I shot two test images, one with a minimum amount of sharpening and one with a maximum amount of sharpening for comparision. The images were opened in Photoshop Raw, and I can't see any difference in softness/sharpness. Seems like Photoshop isn't using the camera settings at all.



07-08-2011, 07:56 AM   #5
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
You shouldn't need to guess by looking at the images. If a program is using the camea settings in some way, you'll actually see that effect on the sliders. Eg, if the normal default position of the sharpness amount slider in Adobe Camera RAW is 0, then check to see if the slider is moved to a higher position when loading an image taken with sharpness turned up.
07-08-2011, 11:30 AM   #6
Junior Member




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Norway
Posts: 49
Original Poster
What you say is quite informative.
I shot two more testpics, one with a minimum sharpness camera setting, and the other with max.
The first image makes Photoshop's camera raw have the following settings:

Sharpness:
Amount-25
Radius-1
Detail-25

Some noise reduction is also applied as default in PS camera raw.

The second image makes PS apply the same settings, so does this mean that Photoshop isn't applying the camera settings, and that the settings mentioned above is deafult as far as PS is concerned?

What is interesting is that I always move the sharpness-sliders in PS to zero before loading the images (I prefer to do my own sharpening), and after getting the K20D my impression is that this camera delivers less soft images with no sharpening applied than compared to my former Nikons.
07-08-2011, 11:52 AM   #7
Veteran Member
joe.penn's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,902
QuoteOriginally posted by emtor Quote
What you say is quite informative.
I shot two more testpics, one with a minimum sharpness camera setting, and the other with max.
The first image makes Photoshop's camera raw have the following settings:

Sharpness:
Amount-25
Radius-1
Detail-25

Some noise reduction is also applied as default in PS camera raw.

The second image makes PS apply the same settings, so does this mean that Photoshop isn't applying the camera settings, and that the settings mentioned above is deafult as far as PS is concerned?

What is interesting is that I always move the sharpness-sliders in PS to zero before loading the images (I prefer to do my own sharpening), and after getting the K20D my impression is that this camera delivers less soft images with no sharpening applied than compared to my former Nikons.

Camera RAW / LR will automatically set these values (25, 1, 25) when importing the RAW file. These values come from the embedded information within the RAW file structure/attributes and these settings correspond directly to the JPEG preview thumbnail file that is embedded internally within the RAW file.

When you snap your picture, the cameras algorithm takes all of the captured data during the exposure time and uses this to create the RAW file - at the same time, the cameras algorithm invokes the JPEG processor to create a preview thumbnail file, the files data (binary data of the JPEG preview file) is stuffed into an attribute/property of the finished RAW file. Additional data (default sharpening, saturation adjustments, etc etc etc) MAY or MAY NOT be included in another property/attribute within the RAW file structure (I say MAY or MAY NOT as it is not a required property/attribute of the RAW file specification, it is optional).

When you import your files into LR, the import screen shows the JPEG preview file extracted directly from the RAW file (when viewing in thumbnail grid view). The JPEG property/attributes that are set in the RAW file (if any as again it is not required to meet RAW file specs) are the property/attributes that the cameras internal JPEG processor used to create the JPEG preview file, and thus LR sets defaults accordingly...


Just to add - import a JPEG file into LR, the sliders will not move, this is because JPEG files do not have readable properties/attributes that pass along sharpening/contrast/sat/etc data...

********************************************
Keep in mind that some of this is in theory as I do not have an SDK of the cameras internal RAW file or JPEG processor to 100% verify this...
********************************************


---

Last edited by joe.penn; 07-08-2011 at 12:02 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, images, jpg-settings, k20d, nikon, pentax, pentax k20d, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why no Pentax lenses in ACR lens profiles when processing .JPG files? rrodgers Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 3 06-08-2011 04:53 AM
K20D switching from raw to jpg on its own??? ismaelg Pentax DSLR Discussion 5 04-11-2011 05:25 AM
Help - K-7 jpg settings to use for a raw shooter? Arpe Pentax DSLR Discussion 6 10-11-2010 02:02 AM
What settings affect the RAW files? jeremy_c Pentax DSLR Discussion 8 11-26-2008 03:03 PM
K20D switched from RAW to JPG files w/o me changing it! petez Pentax DSLR Discussion 4 03-04-2008 01:25 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:19 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top