O-GPS1, is it a design mistake?

i83N · 07-18-2011, 03:24 AM

When i look at pictures of O-GPS1 on K5 or K-r i see that you can not use any flash with it, except those which supports x-sync and this only on K5. You will not be able to open even onboard flash as a wireless flash trigger or as a fill
I know that you don't need a flash when shooting astrophotography and beautiful vistas on a tripod, but what if i'm shooting a wedding for example and client wants geo-tags and i need flash?
So do you think O-GPS1 is a design mistake?
P.S. Sorry if this topic was already been here, i couldn't find it.

**Digitalis** · 07-18-2011, 03:44 AM

you can still use the PC synch port if you use a flash supported on a bracket (which gets the flash off the camera) it is still possible to use flash with the GPS.

You won't be able to use P-TTL but A-TTL does just as well and IMO it is more consistent than P-TTL in bounce flash mode.

i83N · 07-18-2011, 03:48 AM

yeah, but you'll choke your self in wires

Adam · 07-18-2011, 03:57 AM

The design isn't too great- but I guess you'll rarely need to use your flash when outdoors with the gps.

Adam
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**Digitalis** · 07-18-2011, 04:12 AM

Originally posted by i83N

yeah, but you'll choke your self in wires

that is why cable ties are such handy things.

adr1an · 07-18-2011, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

that is why cable ties are such handy things.

Maybe its a carry over from hanging out in data centers... but I've grown to love Velcro Ties.. you can also buy continuous rolls of double-sided velcro at a hardware store too which serves just as well - just cut to length as required... Heaps more user friendly when it comes to cable management

**Digitalis** · 07-18-2011, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by adr1an

Maybe its a carry over from hanging out in data centers... but I've grown to love Velcro Ties

I use those too. But they have a nasty habit of picking up fluff and dirt, and they sometimes come undone at inconvenient times.

froeschle · 07-18-2011, 04:50 AM

As the GPS unit is communicating with the body via the hot shoe, using an external flash may cause problems (see below). I would not even try using x-sync or internal flash (O-GPS1 e.g. connected via cable) without asking Pentax for allowance. So, maybe the design is not a mistake but it rather ensures that flash units and the O-GPS1 are not used together.

O-GPS|FAQ

Originally posted by Google translate:

Q: Can I use the external flash unit with a hot shoe adapter F between the camera and the GPS unit?
A: Used in conjunction with external flash is not allowed.

adr1an · 07-18-2011, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by froeschle

As the GPS unit is communicating with the body via the hot shoe, using an external flash may cause problems (see below). I would not even try using x-sync or internal flash (O-GPS1 e.g. connected via cable) without asking Pentax for allowance. So, maybe the design is not a mistake but it rather ensures that flash units and the O-GPS1 are not used together.

O-GPS|FAQ

Indeed I believe it is by design - as I hypothesized in another thread - the NMEA/Gyro data is no doubt passed to the camera using either a custom protocol that is established once the O-GPS1 identifies itself via the Mode pin in some fashion, or alternatively, it uses messed up TTL packets to piggyback the data. The only pin available on the hotshoe is the Pentax "Digital" Pin, which is also where the pTTL data is transmitted...

Either way, kind of rules out 'usual' TTL messaging occuring at the same time without causing the GPS data to get eaten. So I suspect this is a design function, as by using the Sync port, you are cutting the TTL out of the equation....

Gimbal · 07-18-2011, 06:49 AM

Design mistake? Well it could have been worse. Check out the these design studies, how about the blue one?

**LaurenOE** · 07-18-2011, 07:04 AM

Folks, I don't see the problem...although I am waiting for my GPS unit to come.

All you need is one of these

Pentax Hot Shoe Adapter F 31022 B&H Photo Video

I have a few and I also have the F5P sync cords. They should allow use of a flash and give enough clearance directly or use the sync cord and another adapter.

There should be no problems.

adr1an · 07-18-2011, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by LaurenOE

There should be no problems.

Have you confirmed this with Pentax ? If you think what the GPS is doing (Passing Binary encoded data to the Camera containing a rather length NMEA statement, or passing it in a longer plain-text string, Along with Gyro and Compass Data...) - then as I said earlier:

Originally posted by adr1an

the NMEA/Gyro data is no doubt passed to the camera using either a custom protocol that is established once the O-GPS1 identifies itself via the Mode pin in some fashion, or alternatively, it uses messed up TTL packets to piggyback the data. The only pin available on the hotshoe is the Pentax "Digital" Pin, which is also where the pTTL data is transmitted...

I will be very intrigued if it works with Both the GPS *and* a TTL flash doing TTL... Manual I see working fine... but not TTL and the GPS....

Thats the bigger issue.. not the physical dimensions/fitting of it... its the clashing of the TTL data.. and the fact the camera is obviously going to make a decision about how it handles TTL when using a GPS (which also is using TTL - or at least the same physical pins...)

RonHendriks1966 · 07-18-2011, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by LaurenOE

Folks, I don't see the problem...although I am waiting for my GPS unit to come.

All you need is one of these

Pentax Hot Shoe Adapter F 31022 B&H Photo Video

I have a few and I also have the F5P sync cords. They should allow use of a flash and give enough clearance directly or use the sync cord and another adapter.

There should be no problems.

Couragous, so let us know how that workes out.

i83N · 07-18-2011, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

Design mistake? Well it could have been worse. Check out the these design studies, how about the blue one?

Color is not the problem.

**LaurenOE** · 07-18-2011, 09:26 AM

I have no data at the moment, since I don't have a unit in my hot little hands. I will report back when I get my GPS unit. It's paid for and back-ordered.

However, from a technical standpoint, I don't see why it won't work with a flash and the hot shoe adapter.

07-18-2011, 03:24 AM	#1
i83N Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,203	O-GPS1, is it a design mistake? When i look at pictures of O-GPS1 on K5 or K-r i see that you can not use any flash with it, except those which supports x-sync and this only on K5. You will not be able to open even onboard flash as a wireless flash trigger or as a fill I know that you don't need a flash when shooting astrophotography and beautiful vistas on a tripod, but what if i'm shooting a wedding for example and client wants geo-tags and i need flash? So do you think O-GPS1 is a design mistake? P.S. Sorry if this topic was already been here, i couldn't find it.

07-18-2011, 06:49 AM	#10
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Design mistake? Well it could have been worse. Check out the these design studies, how about the blue one? Attached Images

07-18-2011, 07:06 AM	#12
adr1an Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 739	Originally posted by LaurenOE There should be no problems. Have you confirmed this with Pentax ? If you think what the GPS is doing (Passing Binary encoded data to the Camera containing a rather length NMEA statement, or passing it in a longer plain-text string, Along with Gyro and Compass Data...) - then as I said earlier: Originally posted by adr1an the NMEA/Gyro data is no doubt passed to the camera using either a custom protocol that is established once the O-GPS1 identifies itself via the Mode pin in some fashion, or alternatively, it uses messed up TTL packets to piggyback the data. The only pin available on the hotshoe is the Pentax "Digital" Pin, which is also where the pTTL data is transmitted... I will be very intrigued if it works with Both the GPS and a TTL flash doing TTL... Manual I see working fine... but not TTL and the GPS.... Thats the bigger issue.. not the physical dimensions/fitting of it... its the clashing of the TTL data.. and the fact the camera is obviously going to make a decision about how it handles TTL when using a GPS (which also is using TTL - or at least the same physical pins...) Last edited by adr1an; 07-18-2011 at 07:13 AM.

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07-18-2011, 03:44 AM	#2
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	you can still use the PC synch port if you use a flash supported on a bracket (which gets the flash off the camera) it is still possible to use flash with the GPS. You won't be able to use P-TTL but A-TTL does just as well and IMO it is more consistent than P-TTL in bounce flash mode.

07-18-2011, 03:48 AM	#3
i83N Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,203 Original Poster	yeah, but you'll choke your self in wires

07-18-2011, 03:57 AM	#4
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	The design isn't too great- but I guess you'll rarely need to use your flash when outdoors with the gps. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

07-18-2011, 04:12 AM	#5
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by i83N yeah, but you'll choke your self in wires that is why cable ties are such handy things.

07-18-2011, 04:31 AM	#6
adr1an Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 739	Originally posted by Digitalis that is why cable ties are such handy things. Maybe its a carry over from hanging out in data centers... but I've grown to love Velcro Ties.. you can also buy continuous rolls of double-sided velcro at a hardware store too which serves just as well - just cut to length as required... Heaps more user friendly when it comes to cable management

07-18-2011, 04:37 AM	#7
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by adr1an Maybe its a carry over from hanging out in data centers... but I've grown to love Velcro Ties I use those too. But they have a nasty habit of picking up fluff and dirt, and they sometimes come undone at inconvenient times.

07-18-2011, 04:50 AM	#8
froeschle Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 552	As the GPS unit is communicating with the body via the hot shoe, using an external flash may cause problems (see below). I would not even try using x-sync or internal flash (O-GPS1 e.g. connected via cable) without asking Pentax for allowance. So, maybe the design is not a mistake but it rather ensures that flash units and the O-GPS1 are not used together. O-GPS\|FAQ Originally posted by Google translate: Q: Can I use the external flash unit with a hot shoe adapter F between the camera and the GPS unit? A: Used in conjunction with external flash is not allowed.

07-18-2011, 04:52 AM	#9
adr1an Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 739	Originally posted by froeschle As the GPS unit is communicating with the body via the hot shoe, using an external flash may cause problems (see below). I would not even try using x-sync or internal flash (O-GPS1 e.g. connected via cable) without asking Pentax for allowance. So, maybe the design is not a mistake but it rather ensures that flash units and the O-GPS1 are not used together. O-GPS\|FAQ Indeed I believe it is by design - as I hypothesized in another thread - the NMEA/Gyro data is no doubt passed to the camera using either a custom protocol that is established once the O-GPS1 identifies itself via the Mode pin in some fashion, or alternatively, it uses messed up TTL packets to piggyback the data. The only pin available on the hotshoe is the Pentax "Digital" Pin, which is also where the pTTL data is transmitted... Either way, kind of rules out 'usual' TTL messaging occuring at the same time without causing the GPS data to get eaten. So I suspect this is a design function, as by using the Sync port, you are cutting the TTL out of the equation....

07-18-2011, 07:04 AM	#11
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	Folks, I don't see the problem...although I am waiting for my GPS unit to come. All you need is one of these Pentax Hot Shoe Adapter F 31022 B&H Photo Video I have a few and I also have the F5P sync cords. They should allow use of a flash and give enough clearance directly or use the sync cord and another adapter. There should be no problems.

07-18-2011, 07:09 AM	#13
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by LaurenOE Folks, I don't see the problem...although I am waiting for my GPS unit to come. All you need is one of these Pentax Hot Shoe Adapter F 31022 B&H Photo Video I have a few and I also have the F5P sync cords. They should allow use of a flash and give enough clearance directly or use the sync cord and another adapter. There should be no problems. Couragous, so let us know how that workes out.

07-18-2011, 07:26 AM	#14
i83N Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,203 Original Poster	Originally posted by Gimbal Design mistake? Well it could have been worse. Check out the these design studies, how about the blue one? Color is not the problem.

07-18-2011, 09:26 AM	#15
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	I have no data at the moment, since I don't have a unit in my hot little hands. I will report back when I get my GPS unit. It's paid for and back-ordered. However, from a technical standpoint, I don't see why it won't work with a flash and the hot shoe adapter.