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11-24-2007, 09:58 AM   #1
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K10d JPEG quality

I am soon to be a owner of a digital slr. I have researched and looked at the cameras in the 10 megapixel range and have it down to two cameras that I like. The two cameras are the K10d and the Canon 40d. First these two cameras "feel good" in my hands. I know that the 40D is an excellent camera and has excellent focusing compared to the K10d. I first owned a pentax k1000 to learn photography and loved it. I have read a lot on the soft image quality in Jpeg, but great quality of Raw for the K10D.
I know that eventually i will shoot most everything in raw, but there will be occasions that jpeg images may be used.

Has any of the firmware up-dates sharpened the jpeg images?

Since I am in this forum, you can tell that I am leaning towards the PENTAX k10 d. Any comments will be appreciated. It is a bit scary buying my first digital slr as it the system that I will have for many years. Thanks from a first time buyer.

Dick

11-24-2007, 10:09 AM   #2
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Greetings and welcome, please feel free to hit the "Search" function at the top of your screen and type "Jpeg". Im pretty sure its all been covered for your convenience. Once again, welcome to the Pentax forums Dick.

Last edited by Kaimarx; 11-24-2007 at 10:15 AM.
11-24-2007, 11:04 AM   #3
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Dick

I have had the K10D for 3 months. As far as the JPG quality is concerned I was not that concerned with the "softness" of detail that has been documented in all the test reports, because I think that it gives a more "film" like detail. I have found that leaving the default "image tone" setting with the JPG quality high is a good base. From there just play with the sharpness. I shoot mostly with a 100 - 200 ISO setting as well.
Of course the detail of the RAW format (I use the DNG setting) is priority for high quality images that can be comfortably processed.

I hope this helps.

Later
11-24-2007, 11:11 AM   #4
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When you do shoot in JPEG, put the camera in Bright mode, with saturation turned down by a notch to avoid blown-out colors. The results are excellent.

Also, use the money you save in getting the K10D instead of the Canon 40D and put that towards some better lenses -- at the level of pickiness we're talking about with the sharpness issue, that'll actually make a much bigger difference.

11-24-2007, 11:37 AM   #5
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JPEGs at the default setting a soft...on purpose! It was designed that way to allow better sharpenning in postprocessing. However, all you have to do is set the sharpness up a few notches and you're fine. Does anyone really shoot cameras (or operate any digital equipment) at default settings????

To be honest, if I had had the money, I may have gone for the 40D. As it is now, I'm very happy with my K10D.
11-24-2007, 12:01 PM   #6
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Hello Dick (rwa)

Re your observation that:

QuoteQuote:
I have read a lot on the (K10D's) soft image quality in Jpeg
Coming from a conventional Olympus OM1 35mm/Mamiya medium-format film background, the Pentax K10D is the first DSLR which I have ever owned. Therefore I think you can safely assume that I haven't any particular 'knife to grind' on the subject of brand loyalty, where Pentax is concerned. I have read so many 'informed' articles about the perceived 'problem' of soft jpeg images prior to purchasing this particular DSLR that to put it politely, I am bored beyond belief.
IMHO it's UTTER NONSENSE. The K10D is so customisable that if the factory default setting doesn't meet with your requirements, you can simply adjust the settings so that it does ! Strangely, this is not an option which other manufacturers care to offer !
Let them explain the reason why.......silence is golden !
Although the K10D boasts a pretty foolproof automatic 'green' mode, you have to take on board one simple but essential fact:
The Pentax K10D is unquestionably NOT a 'Point & Shoot' camera in the widely accepted sense of the word. If that's what you require, you might be advised to look elsewhere.
However, what the K10D IS is an astonishingly accomplished tool for capturing truly 'film-like' images with an inherent 'build-quality' and ergonomically designed handling that quite frankly leaves other brands trailing in it's wake.
In all honesty, it makes competitors products look like cheap toys !
How many other DSLR's in the K10D's price-range have a fully weather-sealed exterior ? At the bargain-basement price you would pay for a K10D in the USA, it's even more of a steal that it currently is over here in Rip-off Europe ! The inbuilt Shake Reduction mechanism ensures that K-mount bayonet lenses both new and old will benefit from this remarkable feature, without needing the kind of gold-plated savings account you will undoubtedly require to ever afford any of C****n or N****'s over-priced range of stabilised lenses.
With Hoya's recent acquisition of Pentax and it's considerable financial backing in the company, I believe that things are starting to look much healthier and if the issue of long lens availability can be addressed shortly, then the company's future seems assured.

Best regards
Richard

Last edited by Confused; 11-24-2007 at 05:16 PM.
11-24-2007, 02:38 PM   #7
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Well, at first I myslef thought "OMG what the hell is that?" when i saw K10 JPEGS. But tweak a bit here and there, and you get really nice JPEGs right out of the camera. I use Bright tone, Sharpness +2, Contrast -1, Saturation +1. The results are very good, better then almost any camera can produce actually. The one flaw is still there - JPEGs are overcompressed. Only like 3MB each at best. This cannot be corrected, but they are still very good for most situations. And if you are worried - use the RAW button!
11-24-2007, 03:55 PM   #8
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JPEG quality

Thanks for the comments everyone. My goal is to learn digital photography and the K10d sounds like the right tool to learn. There is a quite difference in price to the canon 40d and I will spend the money saved to buy some good lenses. As I mentioned, my first slr was a K1000 and it was great to learn on. The K10d will be a lot of fun.

Dick

11-24-2007, 09:39 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Also, use the money you save in getting the K10D instead of the Canon 40D and put that towards some better lenses -- at the level of pickiness we're talking about with the sharpness issue, that'll actually make a much bigger difference.
Yes, this is the line to heed. If you want sharper photos, from what I've read on this site, pick up a Pentax Prime Limited lens along with the K10D. The FA's are usually rated higher than he DA's but depending on your needs I don't think you can go wrong either way.
11-24-2007, 11:23 PM   #10
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QuoteQuote:
Does anyone really shoot cameras (or operate any digital equipment) at default settings????
I'm guessing more than 75% of people change nothing in the camera, but make all the changes in PP.
11-24-2007, 11:33 PM   #11
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I did make changes at first ... fearing that JPEGS were soft ... so I upped the Sharpness +2 ... and put Saturation +1, etc ... I even changed these again and compared it.

What I found is that with everything set to 0 ... the JPEGs were much nicer than having tweaks most of the time. So I left it set back to 0 ... and any slight adjustments that needed to be made ... I did in PP afterwards ... but only on a handful of images though.

Actually .. thinking about it ... I don't think I have mine set to Bright Mode ... (I really don't know where the adjustment for Bright Mode is ... hence why I don't think it is selected)

I really should sit down and read the manual. LOL
11-25-2007, 10:29 PM   #12
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I am quite happy with the sharpness of my K10D
it is very true that it is not a point and shoot..
I have mine set on bright mode, + 2 sharpness, 0 sat., 0 cont.,

Snowcat
My J pegs average 3.90mb with many at 4.20MB..
When my camera is set off bright mode they average 3mp.
11-25-2007, 11:15 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tall Guy Quote
Dick

I have had the K10D for 3 months. As far as the JPG quality is concerned I was not that concerned with the "softness" of detail that has been documented in all the test reports, because I think that it gives a more "film" like detail. I have found that leaving the default "image tone" setting with the JPG quality high is a good base. From there just play with the sharpness. I shoot mostly with a 100 - 200 ISO setting as well.
Of course the detail of the RAW format (I use the DNG setting) is priority for high quality images that can be comfortably processed.

I hope this helps.

Later
I just came back from a Knights of Columbus meetijng where I showed my fellow Knights some snapshots taken at a recent awards banquet. The shots were straight out of the camera. I have my K10D defaulted to RAW+JPEG and just copied the jpgs to the computer and opened them with Lightroom (no processing on load) so they could look through them with the arrow keys.

The universal comment was "Sharp pictures!"

These are not pros. These are just people. I personally dislike the over saturated and over sharpened shots I see all over the place.

IMNHO
11-26-2007, 10:11 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
I'm guessing more than 75% of people change nothing in the camera, but make all the changes in PP.
I think that's quite high. I think the vast majority of people don't do anything -- either tweak settings or post produce. You're biased because you spend a lot of time hanging out with camera nerds.
11-26-2007, 11:23 AM   #15
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rwa.

Don't worry about not getting sharp images with the K10D. The following images are jpegs.

Rg



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