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08-06-2011, 09:50 AM   #196
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Right now, we have small APS sensors (Pentax Q, cell phones), larger APS sensors (point and shoots, consumer DSLRs), full frame (advanced DSLRs), and medium format sensors of various sizes. IMO, all DSLRs should be full frame, with point and shoots remaining at APS, and the medium format juggernauts staying where they are for those with megapixel envy. This may indeed happen in the future, then Ricoh will have to either join the DSLR-full frame union, or bow out.

I still disagree about moms and dads being the majority of DSLR users. From what I see from day to day, the people carrying the most DSLRs are not the parents, but rather adults without kids, college students, teens, advanced hobbyists, and pros.

08-06-2011, 10:06 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
I still disagree about moms and dads being the majority of DSLR users. From what I see from day to day, the people carrying the most DSLRs are not the parents, but rather adults without kids, college students, teens, advanced hobbyists, and pros.
I use the term "mom & pop" loosely. The folks I encounter may or may not be parents. I use that term to encompass all those who want something better than point-and-shoot, but whose interest in photography doesn't extend much beyond that.
08-06-2011, 10:10 AM   #198
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I still feel the low end DSLRs are pricey. I just keep my cell phone as a back up camera, rather than a 2nd DSLR body. Most DSLR users have to sell their camera before getting a new one, rather than keeping one as back up. Especially full frame. When the D700 gets upgraded, no way can I keep both and would have to sell it before buying a D800.
08-06-2011, 10:15 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
I still feel the low end DSLRs are pricey.
My friend...we agree 100%! DSLRs are expensive...even the cheap ones!

08-06-2011, 10:21 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
Right now, we have small APS sensors (Pentax Q, cell phones), larger APS sensors (point and shoots, consumer DSLRs), full frame (advanced DSLRs), and medium format sensors of various sizes. IMO, all DSLRs should be full frame, with point and shoots remaining at APS, and the medium format juggernauts staying where they are for those with megapixel envy. This may indeed happen in the future, then Ricoh will have to either join the DSLR-full frame union, or bow out.
<snip>
I agree with this... mostly.

One problem is that some of us came to Pentax specifically for the smaller form-factor DSLR with a robust build and the beautiful Limited primes.

I have no doubt that Pentax/ Ricoh could build a smaller full-frame DSLR that is comparable/ better in build quality to Nikon/ Canon... but smaller is a relative term. There is only so much reduction in size possible when building FF due to the size of the supporting elements of FF. It's been mentioned in this thread at least once that I've seen.

"Slightly" smaller/ lighter than a D700 did not entice me to Pentax. I know others who are currently looking at Pentax for exactly the same reason I switched.

Another issue associated with our opinion is the legacy lenses that will not work well on FF. Dumping APS-C will relegate some lenses to paperweight status at some point in the future. This will alienate some users. Nikon is going to have to deal with this as well as they have an ever increasing amount of "DX" lenses. One option would be to make sure the FF MP count is high enough that they can include an APS-C sized "crop" option that is an equal/ higher MP count and equal or better quality than the current APS-C cameras. At that point all lenses sized for APS-C would be "backwards compatible". This will also help a bit with those APS-C users who use the crop cameras for the additional "reach" afforded by the sensor crop.

Last edited by Pentikonian; 08-06-2011 at 10:21 AM. Reason: typos
08-06-2011, 10:44 AM   #201
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It will be interesting to see what the new D800 crop factor is at, as far as megapixels. I believe the D700 is only at 6MP when using FX lenses, so if the D800 can up that to 12MP, it will be mostly on par with their FX cameras.
08-06-2011, 11:02 AM   #202
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I have no problem with APS-C or even 4/3 when it comes to size. What I would prefer to see is higher grade lenses that are sharp at wider apertures. When Olympus releases an f/2.0 lens it is razor sharp at f/2.0. It does not need to be stopped down. Pentax needs to move in a similar direction. At least produce a line of lenses targeting higher end users. I understand the reason for offering the super-soft-super-slow-super-zoom, but I would like to see some more glass on the higher end of the spectrum.

For me the sensor size is not nearly as important as the quality of the glass.
08-06-2011, 01:15 PM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
Your percentages are way,way off.
maybe because I made them up.

08-06-2011, 01:18 PM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentikonian Quote
One problem is that some of us came to Pentax specifically for the smaller form-factor DSLR with a robust build and the beautiful Limited primes.
me, for example. I sold my D700 + FX lenses.

btw, in Nikon land FX = 135 format, DX = APS-C
08-06-2011, 03:03 PM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote

I suspect that Pentax can pack a FF sensor into a similarly or maybe even the same sized K-5 body.

Oh and I want the *1080p/30* video, full video AF, and video controls, 36 megapixels, fast screw drive, HSM, and 7fps in a full frame body.
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
So modest. I want a lot more.
  • Video FullHDwide 2560x1080 60fps.
  • Videomode with a hi-framerate function up to 200 fps (or so).
  • Full resolution stills at 10 fps.
  • 6 megapixel jpg stills at 20 to 30 fps as LiveView function.
  • Full support for UHS-I in writing and image processing.
  • I'm okay with 24 megapixel, but more is good too.
  • Fast AF with tracking AF function.
  • Extended iso-settings from iso 25 to 102400.
  • Noise free images up to iso 3200.
Interesting, I'll just throw this in to show the diversity of the FF crowd's wish list, not that I presume to represent the camera buying populace at large. I want:
  • No video in mine whatsoever
  • two memory card slot /w option to mirror the data
  • More AF points for Pete's sake in a wider array
  • Better tracking AF
  • IR assisted low-light focus
  • Tethering
  • I'm happy with 12mp, but if it's to be 36mp at least an option to reduce the count
  • Lower native ISO
  • Squeaky clean to ISO 3200, after that I don't care
  • Shake reduction, my coffee drinkin a$$ has come to love it.
  • 12 stops of DR
  • Bigger not smaller; k20D sized with grip. When I use it to club someone, I want them to go DOWN!
  • Large, bright optical VF, or better yet, a waist-level finder.
Basically if the K20D had a full frame sensor and lower noise it would be my dream camera.
08-06-2011, 03:54 PM   #206
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QuoteQuote:
Nikon buys 95% of Sony's FF sensors! They are co-designed.
95%? Sources, any proof? The Nikon sensor in the D3x is developed by Sony (and also used within the a850 and the a900). The 12.1 (!) MP sensors of the D700 and D3s are claimed to be designed by Nikon. The street price difference between the Sony a900 and the a850 recently was marginal. Cancelling the latter thus was not unreasonable. All those who state the privilege position of Nikon did not yet give any plausible argument, why Pentax got the latest APS-C sensor simultaneously with Nikon.
QuoteQuote:
Kodak
... might not be a bad alternative choice after all. Leica seemed to be quite satisfied with them. A special microlens adjustment for K/M/A/AF etc. glass would very much be appreciated. Concerning the 645D there should also be some room to negotiate. Or an even better idea: What about the headline "Ricoh buys Kodak"?

Last edited by froeschle; 08-06-2011 at 05:17 PM.
08-06-2011, 05:12 PM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
So modest. I want a lot more.
Well ok. I will cave to your stronger demands.
08-06-2011, 05:31 PM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
Interesting, I'll just throw this in to show the diversity of the FF crowd's wish list, not that I presume to represent the camera buying populace at large. I want:
  • No video in mine whatsoever
  • two memory card slot /w option to mirror the data
  • More AF points for Pete's sake in a wider array
  • Better tracking AF
  • IR assisted low-light focus
  • Tethering
  • I'm happy with 12mp, but if it's to be 36mp at least an option to reduce the count
  • Lower native ISO
  • Squeaky clean to ISO 3200, after that I don't care
  • Shake reduction, my coffee drinkin a$$ has come to love it.
  • 12 stops of DR
  • Bigger not smaller; k20D sized with grip. When I use it to club someone, I want them to go DOWN!
  • Large, bright optical VF, or better yet, a waist-level finder.
Basically if the K20D had a full frame sensor and lower noise it would be my dream camera.
A lot of your desires have nothing to do with the camera maker and more to do with the sensor makers. Video is a feature of all the modern CMOS sensors and leaving it out would not save any money in particular, since software implementation is cheap.

Size of course and shake reduction have been Pentax's cards to play since the beginning, but generally Pentax tries to make things as small as possible. Still, I wouldn't see it as being smaller than K20, particularly if it included shake reduction.
08-06-2011, 07:59 PM   #209
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Pentax missed the window to release a full-frame camera without video. My guess is that they will go by the wayside in the next revision coming up soon. A few months ago I was thinking it wouldn't be bad if Pentax used a Kodak CCD for FF, but it is too late in my opinion. No one expects medium format to have video, but full frame is turning into APS-C in that video will probably be standard issue. I'm guessing the 5D and D700 replacements will have video. So unless Kodak has something up their sleeve, I don't see them as an option for Pentax FF.
08-06-2011, 08:46 PM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
Pentax missed the window to release a full-frame camera without video. My guess is that they will go by the wayside in the next revision coming up soon. A few months ago I was thinking it wouldn't be bad if Pentax used a Kodak CCD for FF, but it is too late in my opinion. No one expects medium format to have video, but full frame is turning into APS-C in that video will probably be standard issue. I'm guessing the 5D and D700 replacements will have video. So unless Kodak has something up their sleeve, I don't see them as an option for Pentax FF.
You realize the 5DII already has HD video right? Nikon will probably release a professional sports camera that does not have HD video capability. Network contracts with the NFL (ans other sporting events) don't allow photographers to have HD capable cameras on the sidelines. All video rights belong to the TV networks or the NFL. This is one reason sports has been a big area of growth for Nikon. AF of course being the other.

I think Kodak is a dying company. I don't see them making it 5 more years. We will see what Ricoh does, but I still don't see a FF from Pentax in the near future. If a FF is in the cards it will have a Sony sensor.
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