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08-03-2011, 07:09 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
What gets me is there are SO many people who want a full frame Pentax, and instead we get the Q. They should have called it the Fah-Q T_T
I don't really see there being SO many people who can really AFFORD full frame. Wanting isn't the same thing. Obviously on the forum there are more people who want it, but even here, most folks struggle to get the cost of a K5, much less a full frame camera.

As to the Q, it isn't targeted at us, so we'll have to wait and see how it sells to the average individual (not forumites).

08-03-2011, 07:09 AM   #17
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Well to be honest I think that PhotoKina 2012 will be the place to see the new Pentax full frame camera!
08-03-2011, 07:21 AM - 1 Like   #18
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I can see the posts now: K-1 full frame @ $3000? WHAT?! This camera should be $250 and not a penny more!!!

Oh and please stack it next to my world class set of $50 primes.
08-03-2011, 07:44 AM   #19
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Why Full frame?
For those who already have a bunch of DA Lenses, or equivalent of other brands, it means shifting lenses, just for avoiding the crop factor and have better DOF, since it's more than proved tha IQ is no longer an issue at APS-C.

08-03-2011, 07:50 AM   #20
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The 31mm f1.8, 85mm f1.4, and 100mm f2.8 Macro are waiting patiently for the day.

Edit: Large viewfinder, DOF, more lens versatility etc...
08-03-2011, 08:13 AM   #21
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Well to my lenses:
- DA 14mm and 21mm, need new wide-angle.
- DA 40mm should be okay.
- DA* 55mm, 60-250mm and 200mm should be very okay.
- FA*85mm is very good for FF.
I'm willing to buy it to use next to one APS-C camera.
08-03-2011, 08:28 AM - 3 Likes   #22
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Remember, the K-mount was specifically designed with the 24x36mm format in mind. APS-C was only chosen as a format because of the lower costs. I don't buy the "APS-C is good enough" statement, because FF will always be better (especially with the K-5 sensor technology and after the "Pentax treatment", i.e. a smaller FF camera than the APS-C offerings of the competition).

The reasons are clear and were already mentioned in this topic: a better VF, better lens options (28mm is wide angle again), historical purposes, etc.

Ricoh would be stupid to not listen to the "old Pentax crowd". I also don't buy the "Pentax is too small for fullframe" bullshit. Why look at the sales figures of Canon and Nikon? Pentax is a different market with lots of history; it's entirely plausible that Pentax will sell a bigger % of fullframe cameras than Canon and Nikon combined. And it will be a better camera than the cheapest FF offerings of Canon and Nikon, as Pentax has no need to protect the upper-end of their FF market (because Pentax does not have any, unlike Canon and Nikon with their super expensive 1Ds Mark XX and D3x and that's why the 5D MkII and D700 are deliberately crippled).

I can guarantee that Pentax will sell shitloads of FF cameras, both to diehard Pentax users and Nikon and Canon users who are dissatisfied with their entry-level FF cameras.
08-03-2011, 08:45 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I can guarantee that Pentax will sell shitloads of FF cameras, both to diehard Pentax users and Nikon and Canon users who are dissatisfied with their entry-level FF cameras.
From your mouth to Ricoh's ears.

08-03-2011, 08:53 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by magnosantos Quote
Why Full frame?
For those who already have a bunch of DA Lenses, or equivalent of other brands, it means shifting lenses, just for avoiding the crop factor and have better DOF, since it's more than proved tha IQ is no longer an issue at APS-C.
Nikon has a way to deal with this via a setting on the body that adjust for the aps-c image of those lenses. That may not be as big of an issue as you think. I know a lady here in town that has the D700 and she still uses her aps-c Nikkor lenses on it.

Last edited by Blue; 08-03-2011 at 09:10 AM.
08-03-2011, 09:32 AM   #25
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Remember, the 135 film was only chosen as a format because of the lower cost. I don't buy the "135 is good enough" statement, because the medium and large formats will always be better.
Wait... we all know what happened, right?

QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I can guarantee that Pentax will sell shitloads of FF cameras, both to diehard Pentax users and Nikon and Canon users who are dissatisfied with their entry-level FF cameras.
No, you can't.
08-03-2011, 09:36 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I can guarantee that Pentax will sell shitloads of FF cameras, both to diehard Pentax users and Nikon and Canon users who are dissatisfied with their entry-level FF cameras.
Who is unsatisfied with their D700!

That camera will go down as one of the great classics.

FF cameras are priced high to make a profit where sales volumes are low and to make up ground where lens development is slow, costly, and expensive as well.

A Pentax FF camera will be a large beast (MZ-D big) with SR and PD AF plus space for WR, power. video, etc. All the pro controls. It will be the same size as the A900, D700, and so on. Maybe they can squeeze it down to the D300 size. Maybe.

Any such camera will go to market at between $2,500 and $3,500 which automatically prices it waaaay out of the range of "shitloads" of units. Sony could not sell that many with the A850, so what makes everyone think Pentax has more market reach. FF sales from Canikon are very low compared to APS-, as in 5% of the total.

So the sales volumes at that price point are low and the sensor alone (if available;likely not as Sony is the only available supplier and they look to have a sweetheart deal with Nikon already) is $1,000 per unit. And another $500 for distribution, marketing, support, warranty, software, etc.

And what of profit? The shareholders are so entitled. Add 20% margins to the mothership plus the dealer's 10%.

Demand is a function of the price. I do not see that demand because the price is far too high. There are simply too few consumers willing to shell out $3,000 for a camera body. It's a tiny, tiny market even in our fantasy Pentaxland.

And then there's lenses. And the fact that the whole DSLR concept with OVF is threatened by mirrorless, which shrinks market share even more as at least some DSLR users will irrevocably abandon the SLR form factor and OVF.

FF is not a growth market and there's no profit selling to a guy with 30 year-old lenses. You need him to buy a slate of $$$ zoom from 14-300 plus some primes on top of a FF body.

I cannot see Ricoh/Pentax offering FF until sensor prices drop corresponding to APS-C hitting a development wall. Not for a few thousand units per year. The economics just do not work out right now.
08-03-2011, 09:48 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Who is unsatisfied with their D700!

That camera will go down as one of the great classics.

FF cameras are priced high to make a profit where sales volumes are low and to make up ground where lens development is slow, costly, and expensive as well.

A Pentax FF camera will be a large beast (MZ-D big) with SR and PD AF plus space for WR, power. video, etc. All the pro controls. It will be the same size as the A900, D700, and so on. Maybe they can squeeze it down to the D300 size. Maybe.

Any such camera will go to market at between $2,500 and $3,500 which automatically prices it waaaay out of the range of "shitloads" of units. Sony could not sell that many with the A850, so what makes everyone think Pentax has more market reach. FF sales from Canikon are very low compared to APS-, as in 5% of the total.

So the sales volumes at that price point are low and the sensor alone (if available;likely not as Sony is the only available supplier and they look to have a sweetheart deal with Nikon already) is $1,000 per unit. And another $500 for distribution, marketing, support, warranty, software, etc.

And what of profit? The shareholders are so entitled. Add 20% margins to the mothership plus the dealer's 10%.

Demand is a function of the price. I do not see that demand because the price is far too high. There are simply too few consumers willing to shell out $3,000 for a camera body. It's a tiny, tiny market even in our fantasy Pentaxland.

And then there's lenses. And the fact that the whole DSLR concept with OVF is threatened by mirrorless, which shrinks market share even more as at least some DSLR users will irrevocably abandon the SLR form factor and OVF.

FF is not a growth market and there's no profit selling to a guy with 30 year-old lenses. You need him to buy a slate of $$$ zoom from 14-300 plus some primes on top of a FF body.

I cannot see Ricoh/Pentax offering FF until sensor prices drop corresponding to APS-C hitting a development wall. Not for a few thousand units per year. The economics just do not work out right now.
Here we go again with Pentax making a Gi-normous camera compared to the competition which has been total bull-shit since 1952. :BS: Canon and Nikon invented the Gi-normous camera.
08-03-2011, 09:51 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Remember, the 135 film was only chosen as a format because of the lower cost.
No; it's because the other film formats were too large, because lugging heavy camera equipment on the hiking trail made Oskar Barnack thinking

QuoteQuote:
I don't buy the "135 is good enough" statement, because the medium and large formats will always be better.
Wait... we all know what happened, right?
Nice try (despite the ), but none of your K-mount lenses will fit the medium and large format cameras. They will fit a FF Pentax, with the APS-C versions in crop mode (like Nikon). Again: the K-mount is a FF mount. End of story. Canon and Nikon users have an upgrade path, we don't (the 645D is not an upgrade if you already have the K-mount glass).

QuoteQuote:
No, you can't.
I can. The market of a FF Pentax differs from the FF Canon and Nikon markets. It's not that there's a solid "FF market" which caters to a only single group of customer. If that's the case, then Leica would be competing with Canon and Nikon also? I think you should realize yourself that Pentax does not want to be a second Nikon or Canon, but wants its own niche. Creating crippled 'me-too' cameras is out of the question for Pentax.
08-03-2011, 10:00 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Who is unsatisfied with their D700!
Certainly not me.

That said, I would still buy a Pentax FF camera in a heartbeat.
08-03-2011, 10:08 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Nikon has a way to deal with this via a setting on the body that adjust for the aps-c image of those lenses. That may not be as big of an issue as you think. I know a lady here in town that has the D700 and she still uses her aps-c Nikkor lenses on it.
As do I.

Sigma 50-150 2.8 HSM II is a potent combo with the D700, for one.

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