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11-26-2007, 10:26 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
After the initial review and subsequent turmoil Phil said he tried some of the other settings and saw no difference... go figure.
I dont own the K10d so I couldnt experience that softness. At any case, it sounds to me like one "I have better things to do right now..." which IMO means that a similar answer will be offered to any redo petition.

11-26-2007, 10:41 AM   #17
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in looking at this thread, and typical camera reviews in general, I believe the only real fault is that none of the reviewers look at the range of adjustments, and what those adjustments do for you.

In effect, the reviews are just too superficial.

I remember seeing a review a while back (I forget which now) where the pentax was given higher or equal scores in each category and placed below both canon and nikon in the rankings. No reasoning was given.
11-26-2007, 06:04 PM   #18
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Actually, Phil's review of the K10D sold me on that camera, when I was already looking to buying a D80.

In any case, let's just hope that Simon Joinson would be the one to review the K20D since it seems to me that he plays around with a camera's settings more than Phil does. Simon did the E-510 review over there and he did comparisons to other cameras both with the E-510's noise reduction on and off.
11-26-2007, 06:52 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Actually, Phil's review of the K10D sold me on that camera, when I was already looking to buying a D80.

Simon did the E-510 review over there and he did comparisons to other cameras both with the E-510's noise reduction on and off.
Yes, but he used the E-510 optimum settings and the K10D default settings:

Olympus E-510 (NF Off) vs. Pentax K10D

Camera settings:

* Olympus E-510: Olympus 50 mm F2.0 lens, Aperture Priority, ISO 100
JPEG Large/SHQ, Manual WB, Noise Filter Off, Sharpness -2, Anti-shock 2 sec

* Pentax K10D: Pentax 50 mm F1.4 lens, Aperture Priority, ISO 100
JPEG Large/Fine, Manual WB, Default Parameters (Natural IS), Self-Timer (auto MLU)

I hardly call that a fair comparison

Rusty

11-27-2007, 06:25 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rusty Quote
For those of us who are new K10D users, what are the recommended settings to improve the default JPEG quality?

Rusty
Mine are factory settings and am very happy with these results. I get nice crisp, clear photos and prints.

Dave
11-27-2007, 10:23 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I'm curious -- why don't you use RAW? Too slow? I really have trouble seeing the point of Natural mode except as a kind of work-around for performance issues.
RAW definitely has advantages -
but I'll delay anwering re: why I do not shoot RAW on my K100D toward the end/second part of my post -

Utilizing RAW is NOT the simple panecea for all ills -
as this from the dpReview Conclusions of the K10D shows -

" When we reviewed the K100D we thought Pentax had got their image processing just right, however the single element of the entire K10D equation which left us scratching our heads was just that. Either a poorly implemented demosaicing algorithm or a strange choice of sharpening parameters means that while the K10D's JPEG images have plenty of 'texture' they can lack the edge sharpness we're used to seeing from semi-pro digital SLR's.

Pentax may well have been aiming for a smooth film-like appearance but I at least feel that the inability to tweak this out by increasing sharpness is a mistake. That said it's unlikely you'll see this difference in any print up to A3 size, it's a 100% view thing so you have to decide if that's important to you or not. To get that absolute crisp appearance you'll need to shoot RAW, and use Adobe Camera RAW or another third party converter (as the supplied converter produces similar results to the camera). "
(my highlighing in blue )

This means if one uses the default RAW converter supplied by Pentax one gets basically similar results to the in-camera JPG - so to get get more optimal results one has to use either Adobe Camera RAW (or another third party converter) - extra expense and learn how to use it properly to get "better" results......

Like dpReview said from above:
" That said it's unlikely you'll see this difference in any print up to A3 size, it's a 100% view thing so you have to decide if that's important to you or not. "

However having said all that - this is also from dpReview of the Canon 40D page 26 -

" There isn't a single camera on the market which gains so much by shooting RAW and using Adobe Camera RAW to convert its images than the K10D. The difference is night and day and indeed the K10D in this comparison trumps the EOS 40D for detail which hints perhaps that Pentax are using a sensor with a lighter anti-alias filter (although if you look at some of the crops you can see some demosaicing artifacts). "

As to why I don't shoot RAW on my K100D -
it is slower - uses a lot more memory, and adds extra step(s) to my processing - which often shows no significant advantage over regular JPGs for my usage.

Yes, I do know ultimately RAW can be better - with individual conversion -
if I use batch/bulk conversion - then I basically end up with results similar to the in-camera JPG - because that's what the Pentax RAW converter basically does.... (see above)
I even shoot in JPG "Better" only

I shoot (and post on the web) a lot of photos - probably well over 3,500 per year - mainly music -
(that's roughly 10 per day every single day - see links in my sig)
I found JPG (natural tone) adequate - with very occassional hue/tone adjustments -
the main failing with the K100D (for me) is Auto White balance under artificial lights especially when a lot of yellow is used in stage lights (switching over to tungsten balance is still very hit and miss because of changing stage lights) - I'll almost always have to adjust tone/hue - it is annoying, but relatively easy with my photo editor.

For my subjects (musicians on stage) and intended output (web) I found JPG "Better" is adequate - and more suited for my work flow - of course YMMV.

Last edited by UnknownVT; 11-27-2007 at 10:55 AM.
11-27-2007, 04:34 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rusty Quote
Yes, but he used the E-510 optimum settings and the K10D default settings:

Olympus E-510 (NF Off) vs. Pentax K10D

Camera settings:

* Olympus E-510: Olympus 50 mm F2.0 lens, Aperture Priority, ISO 100
JPEG Large/SHQ, Manual WB, Noise Filter Off, Sharpness -2, Anti-shock 2 sec

* Pentax K10D: Pentax 50 mm F1.4 lens, Aperture Priority, ISO 100
JPEG Large/Fine, Manual WB, Default Parameters (Natural IS), Self-Timer (auto MLU)

I hardly call that a fair comparison

Rusty
Yup, I'm aware that he didn't play around with the K10D's settings, and that's hardly fair, but I would think that the focus is and should be on the E-510, at least in that review. As well, it would be overly tedious to do mix and match comparisons between the E-510 default and ideal settings and the competition's default and ideal settings.

Just the fact that Simon Joinson played with the E-510's settings makes me wish that he would review the upcoming cameras from Pentax.

Suffice to say that Phil didn't give the K10D a more thorough test, but then that's his style in reviewing, anyway: all cameras tested using default settings.

DCResource used to muck around with a camera's settings when they do their review, but it doesn't seem like they don't anymore.

The best bet for Pentax cameras to be given a fair and thorough test is to have someone do a site specifically for everything Pentax, much like what Wrotniak does for Olympus, which, by the way, is a good read for a lot of things Olympus. He's fair and balanced with his articles.
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