Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-26-2007, 04:26 PM   #16
and
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,472
I wonder how this thread turned into the k10d defence really. This thread was not about someone attacking your k10d's and there was no question asked like "Provide argumentation for why the fps of your Pentax is perfect and why youl will not need anything more". It was a comment about an ad, and I agree with the comment, that its strange of Pentax to choose to highlight 1 area where they can be said to be behind the competition, instead of highlighting stronger sides of the k10d.

11-26-2007, 05:17 PM   #17
Pentaxian
Arpe's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,344
I too agree that it is not "the ideal action camera". It may be a good action camera, but certainly not ideal. If it was the IDEAL camera it's all that you would see on the sidelines, it's not.

Probably the ideal action camera doesn't exist, but I believe some are more ideal than others, ans some are more ideal than the K10D.
11-26-2007, 05:36 PM   #18
Veteran Member
mysterick's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44266
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 428
Andrew! Great dog shot.


(Notice, he's coming strait at you)

[/QUOTE]
11-26-2007, 07:55 PM   #19
Veteran Member
Tom Lusk's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 972
Yikes!

I find myself agreeing with RH!

Pentax does not produce an ideal action camera, and should not put out ads to that effect (unless they put an asterisk beside that phrase in their ad, and in fine print at the botom of the page add that the K10 is an ideal action camera for the budget-conscious consumer).

The Mk111 has problems, sure, but they have been/are being addressed. Besides, both Canon and Nikon have many other properly-functioning camera models and lenses that are more "ideal" for shooting fast-action than anything Pentax has produced to date.

I guess I just don't understand why Pentax owners are so defensive. It reminds me of the Panasonic forum I used to frequent when I had a FZ-20. Many of the members there ridiculed all DSLR's. Their FZ's could produce better photos than any DSLR's (or so they thought). Now a lot of those same people are here and at the DPReview Pentax forum, claiming Pentax DSLR's equal or even exceed the IQ and abilities of other manufacturers' offerings.

My opinion is that, under ideal conditions, Pentax cameras can produce very good images. Any camera can. Some of us are fussier than others, though, and have different needs, and I, for one, sincerely hope that the new body(ies) and lenses on the way make it possible for sports and wildlife photographers to get serious about Pentax products.

Enough rambling. Getting back to the OP's comments - I agree that promoting the 10D as an ideal action camera was not a wise move, and even misleading.

11-26-2007, 08:41 PM   #20
Veteran Member
jeffkrol's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,435
QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Just read a full page Ad in the Practical Photograph (an UK magazine) for a K10D Ad which I think is just a waste of advertising fee for the Pentax UK.

It promotes the K10D as the "ideal action DSLR" with a "3 frame per second jpeg" shooting capacity as the only theme. Well, we all know that these are actually just the true weak spots of the K10D (and Pentax as well), i.e., slow frame rate, poor continuous AF tracking ability and poor predictive AF and dropped frame rate when C-AF is used in conjunction and so on.

As they have also (just) included the three award marks which the K10D have obtained, why don't they said something on these - e.g., the DSLR which (ever?) wins all the major awards, the most versatile DSLR for the money, the most feature rich DSLR in the year, the best value DSLR or etc.

Just imagine if a person who knows nothing goes to buy a K10D just for action photography, then what will happen!? .. He will probably just be very upset and start to think he is cheated by Pentax.
Not being the suspicious kind ( )I would like to know if this is a current ad or an older one?
A scan of it would be nice since sometimes your reading comprehension seems a bit off...
For all we know this was 9 months ago......which may or may not mean anything but I wish you were a bit more specific.
AND since when is advertising totally truthful anyways????
To be a bit more off the top......
"The PENTAX K10D was also selected as the Best D-SLR Expert in Europe 2007 by the prestigious Technical Image Press Association (TIPA). By winning these two highly coveted awards in Japan and Europe, the K10Dís outstanding performance and technological excellence has been clearly demonstrated to the world."
I assume an expert camera could capture some action shots.......
As of May..3 FPS Nikon D40x vs. 2.5 FPS Nikon D40
11-26-2007, 08:42 PM   #21
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 168
QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
I wonder how this thread turned into the k10d defence really. This thread was not about someone attacking your k10d's and there was no question asked like "Provide argumentation for why the fps of your Pentax is perfect and why youl will not need anything more". It was a comment about an ad, and I agree with the comment, that its strange of Pentax to choose to highlight 1 area where they can be said to be behind the competition, instead of highlighting stronger sides of the k10d.
My question is why RH or anyone else would care what Pentax does with their advertising dollars. Personally, I prefer to take pictures with it. It meets my needs just fine, which is why I bought two of them. That decision was based on actually handling and shooting with it, not on an advertisement. End of comment.
11-26-2007, 08:49 PM   #22
Junior Member




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 25
I looked at, handled, and took pictures with a lot of cameras in my price range, and ditto for cameras that cost a lot more than I wanted to spend. Feature for feature, I liked the K10D so I bought it with the kit lens and a Tamron 28-300. I also got the battery grip and IR shutter release. I'm not really a camera snob, back in the fifties I used (and still have) a Clarus. Later, I got a Konica rangefinder (which model I forget). I took lots of great action pictures of race cars at Spa Belgium, and Nurburgring Germany with a Canon Pellix in the sixties. In 79 I bought an Olympus OM1n and still have it, and use it. Got an OM4 and loved it but it ate batteries and the factory couldn't fix it so I sold it. I still miss it though. I have several medium format cameras and a Speed Graphic 34 that I still enjoy using. I even still use my Kodak Retina IIa and it takes great photographs.

The more I use the K10D the better I like it. To my mind, I can still change settings faster with a film camera as I have been doing so since the early fifties. But before long using the K10D will become second nature. The images I get from it satisfy my needs and thats all that counts. I really don't care what anyone else thinks of the K10D, and I don't care if Pentax comes out with another super gee whiz model next year. I bought the K10D because it does what I want it to do and thats all I can ask of it. I expect to own it for many years.

I look at like this, this is a site that is dedicated to Pentax cameras and users. If your sole reason for posting nothing but derogatory remarks about Pentax cameras you need to find a different forum that caters to cameras you like. Otherwise you are nothing but a troll in need od some mental health consultation.

Cheers,

Phil
11-27-2007, 01:49 AM   #23
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,934
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
I find myself agreeing with RH!

Pentax does not produce an ideal action camera, and should not put out ads to that effect (unless they put an asterisk beside that phrase in their ad, and in fine print at the botom of the page add that the K10 is an ideal action camera for the budget-conscious consumer).

The Mk111 has problems, sure, but they have been/are being addressed. Besides, both Canon and Nikon have many other properly-functioning camera models and lenses that are more "ideal" for shooting fast-action than anything Pentax has produced to date.

I guess I just don't understand why Pentax owners are so defensive. It reminds me of the Panasonic forum I used to frequent when I had a FZ-20. Many of the members there ridiculed all DSLR's. Their FZ's could produce better photos than any DSLR's (or so they thought). Now a lot of those same people are here and at the DPReview Pentax forum, claiming Pentax DSLR's equal or even exceed the IQ and abilities of other manufacturers' offerings.

My opinion is that, under ideal conditions, Pentax cameras can produce very good images. Any camera can. Some of us are fussier than others, though, and have different needs, and I, for one, sincerely hope that the new body(ies) and lenses on the way make it possible for sports and wildlife photographers to get serious about Pentax products.

Enough rambling. Getting back to the OP's comments - I agree that promoting the 10D as an ideal action camera was not a wise move, and even misleading.
Very well put, Tom. Those are exactly what I think!

11-27-2007, 01:50 AM   #24
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,934
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
I wonder how this thread turned into the k10d defence really. This thread was not about someone attacking your k10d's and there was no question asked like "Provide argumentation for why the fps of your Pentax is perfect and why youl will not need anything more". It was a comment about an ad, and I agree with the comment, that its strange of Pentax to choose to highlight 1 area where they can be said to be behind the competition, instead of highlighting stronger sides of the k10d.
:-O and :-)
11-27-2007, 02:00 AM   #25
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,934
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Not being the suspicious kind ( )I would like to know if this is a current ad or an older one?
A scan of it would be nice since sometimes your reading comprehension seems a bit off...
Plus, I have poor writing skills too!

Btw, it's the current November Issue. Just get a copy and read yourself, just in case of any doubt.

QuoteQuote:
For all we know this was 9 months ago......which may or may not mean anything but I wish you were a bit more specific.
AND since when is advertising totally truthful anyways????
I have stated that Pentax UK has included all the three award marks in their Ad but just says nothing on these at all. I think 9 months ago the K10D had not recieved all those as the camera is about one year old now.

BTW, have you read or you just have "poor reading and comprehensive" as mine and as what I can do, or even poor? ;-)

QuoteQuote:
To be a bit more off the top......
"The PENTAX K10D was also selected as the Best D-SLR Expert in Europe 2007 by the prestigious Technical Image Press Association (TIPA). By winning these two highly coveted awards in Japan and Europe, the K10Dís outstanding performance and technological excellence has been clearly demonstrated to the world."
I assume an expert camera could capture some action shots.......
As of May..3 FPS Nikon D40x vs. 2.5 FPS Nikon D40
But Nikon have never and I am sure will never market the D40/X as the "ideal action DSLR" nor they would particular mention the 2.5 fps rate at their Ad as the *only* selling point in the Ad.

Funny that Pentax UK tries to convince the readers that the K10D is an "ideal action DSLR" by including an "action" photo as the Ad's background. They are just naive enough that this kind of presentation will make people believe in what they said.
11-27-2007, 02:27 AM   #26
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,934
Original Poster
May I elaborate that the main point of my opening post is to point out an example how poor (or even stupid) Pentax's marketing really are, as usual over time.

In fact, good marketing is the essence of a successful product (which might not be truly superior, but cannot be very bad, of course).

Good marketing means smart, but not necessarily spent a lot of money to do it. But if a company has already limited budget, like Pentax, inferior marketing is just wasting their valuable money further.

For marketing, what they need to do is to "touch" the hearts of the potential buyers and to aim at the *right* persons. More importantly, the marketing guys should first know what their products are for what people, before they finally created an Ad. As such, the (successful) marketing guys should always know also quite well about their products.

I found that Canon's marketing is usually very smart. Take an example of the TV Ad for the 400D I saw in which a girl carries around a 400D to travel, it emphasizes more for the scenes for the tours, the feel of travelling, more than the camera itself and that the Ads shows that it's small and lightweight and they need not to mention in any verbal words for "it is an ideal travel camera" and "it is an ideal camera for ladies" or etc.

Similarly, for the 40D Ad, the man holding a 40D riding a land rover to shoot a running tiger and shoot the tiger like with a machine gun. Again, there is no need to use lengthy description words. The movie says it all already.

On the other hand, Sony's Ads usually show that the users who use their products are of unique taste and of a superior living styles, which are usually very effective.

In contrast, the Nikon's D40 and D40X TV Ad I have seen is very worse. It contains all along boring and lengthy verbal descriptions of the specs of the D40 and D40X and narrate(?!) the advantages of the cameras one by one, first by a man and then by a lady. Such an Ad is also useless IMHO. Unless the watcher has already known about the specs and features, no one is actually interested or be able to remember all these technical things within that tens of seconds.

I used to study in the U decades ago for marketing subjects as selective ones for interest and I can observe and do know the differences between such good or bad Ads.

For this case of the Pentax UK's "ideal action DSLR" Ad, I would say it is just a joke. It is very likely that the Pentax guy who made the Ad actually knows nothing about the K10D (of course not about the pros and cons of it) nor he knows well about what the competitors offer!
11-27-2007, 03:14 AM   #27
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 313
QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
Pentax does not produce an ideal action camera, and should not put out ads to that effect
Sadly it just indicates that those influential at Pentax have not read or taken seriously any comments anywhere as to the operation of their predictive focus tracking as compared to similarly competitive Canon 30D, Nikon D80,D200, etc.

It explains why no new, more speed efficient algorithms are being introduced in firmware for the K10D as they are unfortunately satisfied with the explanation that it is operating as designed. Obviously a better algorithm can help tweak speed either a little bit, or a lot - but the K10D is a dead camera in terms of firmware update performance/feature improvements.

(but, shell out $1100 for the new K20D after March or so, where all is better even if you can't afford it.)


QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
The Mk111 has problems, sure, but they have been/are being addressed.
Yeah. You don't have people spend $900 on a camera body, and never fix or even improve anything that is pointed out, plus make dismissive comments to those asking about it, only to just stick all the improvements in the replacement model.

The Mk111 is more expensive, but obviously that's not the point. They addressed it. Nikon addressed the D200 banding. On and on.


.
This is obviously just the way Pentax handles things. Even when a widely read reviewer points out a deficiency, for example, the phantom pixel sensor issue, here's the answer Pentax gave him when he explained and documented it:

"Pixel Problem: I hadn't been going to repeat it because it's so absurd, but since you ask, Pentax's response (from Japan) to the pixel problem was to say that it was because we'd taken the initial shots with the 43mmf/1.9 "limited" lens, which they said was a "film" lens. Yes, they said that because it was a "film" lens, that's why it produced the phantom pixels. When we reshot with other lenses and produced the identical results, they had no response - We haven't heard anything back from them at all since the review was published. No word as to what they really think it is, no word on a firmware fix, nothing."



.
Enough. Give K10D owners a firmware update already addressing performance issues for those not able to afford the K20D. Everything can't be hardware based.
11-27-2007, 05:53 AM   #28
Veteran Member
lol101's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Garennes sur Eure France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 900
I didn't see this ad but it's clear that RH is right, the K10 has a few other strong points and it is not a good idea to turn one semi-weakness into a touted selling point.

Bad marketing.

On the other hand, if you really believe what they tell you in ads... you're bound to be deceived!
11-27-2007, 06:23 AM   #29
Not Registered
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
I find myself agreeing with RH!

Pentax does not produce an ideal action camera,

Enough rambling. Getting back to the OP's comments - I agree that promoting the 10D as an ideal action camera was not a wise move, and even misleading.

I agree, Pentax is not an ideal action camera and that is not an opinion, is a fact. The advertising follows a common Marketing strategy of covering your defects as if they were virtues. I dont agree with these ways but they are highly effective (particularly with non-experienced costumers). I have problems with the OP since it is the most clear case of trolling that I can find in my handbook of 101 sheriff of the forum. By agreeing with the OP you are fueling him to continue with his polemic posts. Whether or not that is a problem I guess that it depends on who looks.
11-27-2007, 06:35 AM   #30
Veteran Member
mattdm's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,964
QuoteOriginally posted by Old Timer 56 Quote
My question is why RH or anyone else would care what Pentax does with their advertising dollars. Personally, I prefer to take pictures with it. It meets my needs just fine, which is why I bought two of them. That decision was based on actually handling and shooting with it, not on an advertisement. End of comment.
Err, yeah, you say this, but here you are on a geeky Pentax web forum writing about it.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
action, ad, af, camera, dslr, frame, k10d, pentax, photography, rate, uk
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale - Sold: K10D w/ 3 Extra Batteries, DVD Tutorial, K10D Book! ksignorini Sold Items 2 08-28-2008 08:24 PM
For Sale - Sold: FS: New K10D battery, K10D book sven Sold Items 2 12-17-2007 12:42 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:12 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top