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09-07-2011, 04:41 PM   #46
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The D300 is one third of a stop better than the K-7 according to DXOMark. IOW, not significant.

09-07-2011, 04:54 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by chattphotos Quote
If I remember correctly, the K-r has no AF illumination... a highly valued element for us semi-pro photographers.
The K-x didn't. The K-r does.

FWIW, I never really missed it on the K-x
09-07-2011, 09:54 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by chattphotos Quote
Do you own a K-7?

I have tested the K-7 WR to the max, Pentax says they designed the camera to be weather/water/dust-resistant. I shot in the rain for an hour and then a few months later, I was splashed by Shamu, my camera and WR lenses still work perfectly! I checked the seals, no water permeation at all. So it's a personal testament to a good design!
I once dropped k-7 in a shallow water along with DFA 100wr and got ithem out f it in 5 seconds or so and no problem thereafter.
09-08-2011, 12:47 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by chattphotos Quote
Do you own a K-7?

I have tested the K-7 WR to the max, Pentax says they designed the camera to be weather/water/dust-resistant. I shot in the rain for an hour and then a few months later, I was splashed by Shamu, my camera and WR lenses still work perfectly! I checked the seals, no water permeation at all. So it's a personal testament to a good design!
No, i don't own a K-7. I don't need to, it's not the manufacturer statement that the camera is 100% waterproof. Do you own a d300? Nikon makes the same statement in terms of weather resistant. Even for D300, i believe AF is far superior to the K-7. I did not tried the cameras (but i think the OP should do to make his mind), but based on comparing D90 vs K-x AF in terms of accuracy, Nikon wins by far. I still have no clue how big the central focus point in my K-x is (and it seem to be big). You may say it's not relevant, k-7 and d300 are different cameras. From my point of view, K-7 was the biggest letdown of Pentax, mostly because of sensor performance. You may say it's great, and i can't argue with that, if it works for you, great. But i am glad that when i had to choose i took the k-x and not the k-7. Was twice the price but by far not twice the value for what i needed then.

So, to the OP, try both, see which one you like better and let us know!

09-08-2011, 04:07 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by StepOne Quote
No, i don't own a K-7. I don't need to, it's not the manufacturer statement that the camera is 100% waterproof. Do you own a d300? Nikon makes the same statement in terms of weather resistant. Even for D300, i believe AF is far superior to the K-7. I did not tried the cameras (but i think the OP should do to make his mind), but based on comparing D90 vs K-x AF in terms of accuracy, Nikon wins by far. I still have no clue how big the central focus point in my K-x is (and it seem to be big). You may say it's not relevant, k-7 and d300 are different cameras. From my point of view, K-7 was the biggest letdown of Pentax, mostly because of sensor performance. You may say it's great, and i can't argue with that, if it works for you, great. But i am glad that when i had to choose i took the k-x and not the k-7. Was twice the price but by far not twice the value for what i needed then.

So, to the OP, try both, see which one you like better and let us know!
I think Peter has decided to stick with the K7 till he can get things together to move up to a K5.

As to the weather resistant thing, Nikon doesn't really offer any affordable weather resistant lenses, so whether the body is weather resistant or not, the whole package won't be. Pentax offers weather resistant lenses at several different price points, making it much more affordable in the long run.
09-08-2011, 04:32 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
Nikon's flash system is light years ahead of Pentax's.
Please enlighten us on how you've come to this conclusion.

I have used both systems, and currently run 2xAF540's and 2xAF360's in studio. I'm keen to hear your justification for such a common broad brush comment.
09-08-2011, 05:11 AM   #52
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09-08-2011, 09:54 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mohawk Quote
Please enlighten us on how you've come to this conclusion.

I have used both systems, and currently run 2xAF540's and 2xAF360's in studio. I'm keen to hear your justification for such a common broad brush comment.
I suppose I should have qualified that. If you are using strobist techniques (usually meaning in manual mode for those not familiar with the term) and with wireless/IR triggers then it's not going to make much difference what system you use.

However for out of studio work then there is a long list of advantages :

P-TTL flash system is relatively poorly supported by either Pentax themselves or third-party vendors.
The i-TTL flash system gives the user more choices.
There is no P-TTL macro flash available at present but Nikon has excellent macro flashes and are also supported by third party vendors.
Unfortunately Pentax cameras do not support real TTL flash (without pre-flashes) (I think the last one was the iST ? Someone can correct me if wrong).
Pentax have not yet put out a ring flash for P-TTL.
CLS is faster (if you really need that - e.g. events or reportage. Wedding togs use the Nikon system for a reason - and not just the cameras. Seems P-TTL has a problem exposing wedding dresses).
P-TTL is just not as exposure accurate as i-TTL (don't need to elaborate on this point just trawl through this forum).

Of course not all of the above are from personal experience (I use a Metz 50, Yongnuo 560, and twin armed video lights for macro, : shooting people events, sporting events and macro) but TBH it's not like this is a debatable subject, practically every review / report out there acknowledges the advantages (some greater, some smaller, some insignificant) of the CLS system over others (inc. Canon, Pentax etc.) and any one person's personal experience is small/insignificant (though not value-less) compared to the amount of empirical data out there. As I said, in-studio is a whole different world where you can make virtually any system work for you if using strobist techniques but that is for just a small section of our community, for the vast majority it will be for family events, macro etc.


Last edited by Frogfish; 09-09-2011 at 12:19 AM.
09-12-2011, 04:30 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
I suppose I should have qualified that. If you are using strobist techniques (usually meaning in manual mode for those not familiar with the term) and with wireless/IR triggers then it's not going to make much difference what system you use.

However for out of studio work then there is a long list of advantages :

P-TTL flash system is relatively poorly supported by either Pentax themselves or third-party vendors.
The i-TTL flash system gives the user more choices.
There is no P-TTL macro flash available at present but Nikon has excellent macro flashes and are also supported by third party vendors.
Unfortunately Pentax cameras do not support real TTL flash (without pre-flashes) (I think the last one was the iST ? Someone can correct me if wrong).
Pentax have not yet put out a ring flash for P-TTL.
CLS is faster (if you really need that - e.g. events or reportage. Wedding togs use the Nikon system for a reason - and not just the cameras. Seems P-TTL has a problem exposing wedding dresses).
P-TTL is just not as exposure accurate as i-TTL (don't need to elaborate on this point just trawl through this forum).

O.
Interesting. I've been using Pentax flashes for about five years after coming from Nikon and absolutely disagree with all of the above.

1. P-TTL simply works. I have no exposure issues.
2. CLS is a gimmick and is a pain to use as it is finnicky. The Pentax button/interface layout is much, much better. The well thought out combination of sliders for flash sync modes and FEC adjustment dial makes it quick and easy to use.
3. The Pentax AF160C and Metz MS-1 are P-TTL compatible.
4. The wedding 'togs I know didn't even consider Pentax as their system of choice, mainly because they didn't know much about what the brand offered.

Also, 5. Pentax 540/360 flashes are actually more powerful than their Nikon counterparts at the wider end, which is the icing to the cake for me.

And, 6. I use the TR3 battery pack which can use 6 C-cell batteries. The damn thing packs so much more juice than any other auxiliary pack on the market.

Perhaps you should get acquainted with the Pentax flash system, yes?

Last edited by Mohawk; 09-12-2011 at 09:47 PM.
09-13-2011, 04:44 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mohawk Quote
Interesting. I've been using Pentax flashes for about five years after coming from Nikon and absolutely disagree with all of the above.

1. P-TTL simply works. I have no exposure issues.
2. CLS is a gimmick and is a pain to use as it is finnicky. The Pentax button/interface layout is much, much better. The well thought out combination of sliders for flash sync modes and FEC adjustment dial makes it quick and easy to use.
3. The Pentax AF160C and Metz MS-1 are P-TTL compatible.
4. The wedding 'togs I know didn't even consider Pentax as their system of choice, mainly because they didn't know much about what the brand offered.

Also, 5. Pentax 540/360 flashes are actually more powerful than their Nikon counterparts at the wider end, which is the icing to the cake for me.

And, 6. I use the TR3 battery pack which can use 6 C-cell batteries. The damn thing packs so much more juice than any other auxiliary pack on the market.

Perhaps you should get acquainted with the Pentax flash system, yes?

Actually all I note from those comments, that I take it are supposed to be a rebuttal of the points I listed, is that you have cherry-picked a few points whilst ignoring the other issues completely, whilst introducing other aspects that don't have any direct relationship to the points listed.

Apologies for forgetting about the AF 160C, that one slipped my mind. And it's great that you prefer the ergonomics of Pentax's flash system - it's good to know for further reference.

As to CLS being a gimmick - perhaps you should get properly acquainted with the system, yes? As that is certainly not the opinion of the vast majority whether amateurs / Pros / Media. As I said previously, I'm happy that the Pentax system works for you, in the capacity you require and that you have had no P-TTL issues (contrary to many - just search this forum amongst others), however I'll stick with the empirical evidence available on CLS if you don't mind and hope that Pentax improve on what they've got.
09-13-2011, 05:07 AM   #56
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I'm certainly no flash expert but I've read many arguments about Nikon vs Pentax flash systems. As I understand it, the CLS system is advantageous when you need to control several flashes at once, because you can control all the flashes from the camera, whereas with Pentax you have to set the slave flashes at the flash. With just one off-camera flash, P-TTL should work equally well. Of course the work-around for Pentax with multiple flashes would be to use radio controllers.

(BTW, I have no exposure issues with P-TTL as long as I set ISO manually).
09-13-2011, 05:13 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
Unfortunately Pentax cameras do not support real TTL flash (without pre-flashes) (I think the last one was the iST ? Someone can correct me if wrong).
You aren't technically wrong, no Pentax flash has supported TTL flash since the K100D was released. But I don't think any of the competition does either, including Nikon.

I'm certainly no flash expert but I've read many arguments about Nikon vs Pentax flash systems. As I understand it, the CLS system is advantageous when you need to control several flashes at once, because you can control all the flashes from the camera, whereas with Pentax you have to set the slave flashes at the flash. With just one off-camera flash, P-TTL should work equally well. Of course the work-around for Pentax with multiple flashes would be to use radio controllers.

(BTW, I have no exposure issues with P-TTL as long as I set ISO manually).
09-13-2011, 07:39 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
Actually all I note from those comments, that I take it are supposed to be a rebuttal of the points I listed, is that you have cherry-picked a few points whilst ignoring the other issues completely, whilst introducing other aspects that don't have any direct relationship to the points listed.

Apologies for forgetting about the AF 160C, that one slipped my mind. And it's great that you prefer the ergonomics of Pentax's flash system - it's good to know for further reference.

As to CLS being a gimmick - perhaps you should get properly acquainted with the system, yes? As that is certainly not the opinion of the vast majority whether amateurs / Pros / Media. As I said previously, I'm happy that the Pentax system works for you, in the capacity you require and that you have had no P-TTL issues (contrary to many - just search this forum amongst others), however I'll stick with the empirical evidence available on CLS if you don't mind and hope that Pentax improve on what they've got.
No, not a rebuttal in the strictest sense, but a number of points demonstrating that your flippant "light years ahead" comment is ill informed to say the least.

Yes I do know the Nikon CLS system, but after moving to Pentax I'm much happier. No more diving into menus and remembering A group vis a vis B. Just two slides (wireless and sync modes) and a scroll (FEC) and that's all usually needed for each Pentax flash.

The only improvements that would be worthwhile in my opinion are in relation to build quality. I'd like more secure battery doors and hot shoe locking mechs. And weatherproofing would be good too.

M.

Last edited by Mohawk; 09-13-2011 at 07:49 AM.
09-13-2011, 08:52 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think Peter has decided to stick with the K7 till he can get things together to move up to a K5.

As to the weather resistant thing, Nikon doesn't really offer any affordable weather resistant lenses, so whether the body is weather resistant or not, the whole package won't be. Pentax offers weather resistant lenses at several different price points, making it much more affordable in the long run.
correct....for the time being...

I had to splash out for new PC so extra investment is out of question pretty much...

to switch.... one thing stopping me... 24mm lens.
With Nikon I can only get AF24/2.8D which is kind of slow for my liking and reviews are mixed (just as with FA*24) or superexpensive (but very tempting) AF-S 24/1.4G...
And since my line up is relies on 24+50/55 combination with UWA or mid tele (70-100) optional the whole Nikon move stumbles right at the start. I simply don't suppose I could be happy with 24/2.8 on APSC.
On the other side D700 + 35/2 + 85 is out of reach financially and even then, I'm not sure whether AF35D and AF85/1.4 or 1.8D would be better lenses than FA*24 and DA*55..

as for the flash issue, I only tried AF540FGZ on handful of occasions but was never happy with it's performance. The exposure was all over the place and I was rather disappointed as the K-7's sensor leaves very little margin for error.

But as I wrote above, all in all it came down to lenses. And for what I'm doing and will be doing for a while the SMC lenses seem touch better....
09-13-2011, 07:55 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mohawk Quote
No, not a rebuttal in the strictest sense, but a number of points demonstrating that your flippant "light years ahead" comment is ill informed to say the least.

Yes I do know the Nikon CLS system, but after moving to Pentax I'm much happier. No more diving into menus and remembering A group vis a vis B. Just two slides (wireless and sync modes) and a scroll (FEC) and that's all usually needed for each Pentax flash.

The only improvements that would be worthwhile in my opinion are in relation to build quality. I'd like more secure battery doors and hot shoe locking mechs. And weatherproofing would be good too.

M.
Flippant - possibly, though I didn't think anyone nowadays takes the phrase 'light years' that seriously. The points you failed to address shows however that the Nikon system has and deserves it's reputation as the best out there.

As for the exposure inconsistency ... well another dissatisfied sole right above this post. I'm happy it works for you, but there are still far too many widespread reports of it's inconsistency for the majority to rate it above Nikon.

Have you tried your Nikon flashes on your Pentax ? I think I remember someone mentioning they work very well.
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