Invest in Pentax... or? Sony?

kenyee · 08-23-2011, 12:44 PM

Wait until the A77 is released and then play with it and decide. Ergonomics is a big part of how well a DSLR feels to you. The specs look fantastic. Be aware that Sony lenses are really $$$$$$ :-(

What kills Sony for me is their wacky hotshoe that doesn't have a center firing pin. If you're into studio/strobist stuff at all, this will irk you to no end.
I'd look at the D7000 instead if I were forced to choose another system...

zorak · 08-23-2011, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

well that sounds logical since you are using liveview all the time and putting the sensor on a heatwave without any cooling system. That just works in low temperature surroundings.

Well,considering that the excellent live view is one of the selling points for a $750 camera I just expect more.I also agree about the weird hot shoe.Sony has a history of going their own way as in mini disc,betamax,get my drift.funny thing is,the missus wanted a dslr like a point and shoot,even though I told her that she would probably end up using the viewfinder more than live view and guess what.I was right.but she is pretty happy with it,I am just glad I have my KR as I just don't want to use hers.

Blue · 08-23-2011, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by JHD

And yet it's much more likely that Sony will endure than Ricoh when the global economy collapses.

I wouldn't bet on that. Sony was in the red ink by about $400M in 2010 and so was FujiFilm. Samsung went off on a different trek. They may just be going through a fad. The fact is, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Ricoh and Leica have been in photography for a long time. Sony got into by buying the Minolta line without the name (Konica-Minolta kept it). Samsung started out interacting with Pentax and now schneider but are off on a tangent that may pay off. Panasonic collaborates with Leica. Of the 3 electronic conglomerates (Sony, Samsung and Panny), I suspect Panny has the best chance of keeping a major camera line (not counting phone cams). Unfortunately, Panny does the compact (LX3, Lx5) and m4/3 fairly well but nothing bigger.

kenyee · 08-23-2011, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by zorak

weird hot shoe.Sony has a history of going their own way

To be fair, the weird hot shoe pin design was from Minolta IIRC...and yes I did regret having an old Minolta XG7 film camera...

zorak · 08-23-2011, 07:07 PM

Point taken on the sony hot shoe.Just getting back into photography.Back in my film days i was a pentax guy so a lot of my knowledge is dated.While were on the subject of sony,will the old bayonet minolta lenses fit on a sony dslr and if so what limitations are there ?

Wheatfield · 08-23-2011, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by zorak

Point taken on the sony hot shoe.Just getting back into photography.Back in my film days i was a pentax guy so a lot of my knowledge is dated.While were on the subject of sony,will the old bayonet minolta lenses fit on a sony dslr and if so what limitations are there ?

The Minolta hot shoe dates from the late 80s. I'm sure Sony kept it because it is proprietary (no one else could be bothered, I guess).
Your Sony will use any Minolta Maxxum lens, but it will not use the older MD lenses, at least not directly. I don't know if it would be possible to adapt them or not.

benjikan · 08-24-2011, 02:46 PM

I have a sneaking suspicion, that the next high end Pentax will use the Sony 24 mega pixel sensor. I am waiting for the next incarnation to decide what to do as well. I won't purchase the K5, as it is not a huge leap in image quality improvement over the K20D at 100 iso and in RAW, but 24 megapixels, I am really curious.

zorak · 08-24-2011, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by benjikan

I have a sneaking suspicion, that the next high end Pentax will use the Sony 24 mega pixel sensor. I am waiting for the next incarnation to decide what to do as well. I won't purchase the K5, as it is not a huge leap in image quality improvement over the K20D at 100 iso and in RAW, but 24 megapixels, I am really curious.

I'm with ya there brother.I think it's inevitable that pentax will give us their version or a full frame dslr.Since I am pretty new to pentax dslr's I don't have very much glass,but I plan on building up my lenses based on the possibility of a full frame pentax in the future.I think their cameras are equal or better in both build quality and image quality.I would love to see a pentax camera known as truly professional tool.its like race cars"win on Sunday,sell on Monday".If Joe average see's a pro using pentax gear,then he is going to want to buy pentax gear,which of course helps to increase sales,which of course helps our favorite camera company stay in business.

TaoMaas · 08-24-2011, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by zorak

I would love to see a pentax camera known as truly professional tool.its like race cars"win on Sunday,sell on Monday".If Joe average see's a pro using pentax gear,then he is going to want to buy pentax gear,which of course helps to increase sales,which of course helps our favorite camera company stay in business.

The problem with that is that Pentax has traditionally not had much luck in getting the most visible pros to use their gear. Folks like news photographers, sports photographers, wedding photographers, etc... Most of Pentax's pro users were medium format folks, shooting the 6X7 or 645.

zorak · 08-24-2011, 04:31 PM

Of course,most of these folks would want a full frame camera.Pentax doesn't make one so of course the choice has been made for them.The 645 is a massive looking camera along with a massive price.Of course those things might not matter to a pro.I feel that pentax can make a full frame cheaper than the competition and if they want to be considered to "professional grade" then they will have to offer professional gear.Don't get me wrong,The current offerings from pentax are truly awesome and for the forseeable future are all i need.But if anybody on this forum is honest they will tell you that their "inner Geek" would love to be able to own the best camera around and for that camera to be a Pentax.

TaoMaas · 08-24-2011, 05:03 PM

I'm saying that Pentax has never really cracked that crowd of professional photographers, even during the days of film when they were a major player. These days, it's almost an insurmountable challenge to get Pentax DSLRs in the hands of pros in any significant number. Pentax is going to find another route to draw the attention of the masses.

Philoslothical · 08-24-2011, 05:55 PM

Maybe it's just my own biases, but I think Sony is in even worse a position when it comes to pros. Pentax does need growth into this area, but in consumer products I think they have a lot more going for them, well beyond an old established name in cameras. I think it would help Pentax just as much as adding new hardware to their lineup at this point, to start aggressively advertising in North American and Europe. Pentax can't expect much market share at any level if they don't.

On the other side, Sony is really late to the game. They also have their attention divided between too many classes of products, and they've shown in those products that if something can be tweaked to make it proprietary, they will. Those issues alone would be enough to make me leery of them for the next decade or so, even without the colossal blunders I brought up early in the thread. To their credit, they do advertise, and it shows.

twitch · 08-24-2011, 06:43 PM

Just saw the specs for the A77, it's within 1% of the size of the Canon 7D. I've held the 7D and there's no way I'm ever going to be interested in an APS-C camera that big.

pinholecam · 08-25-2011, 12:43 AM

The K5 is the logical way to go.
1. The K5 just beats the A55 and maybe the A77 in image quality (if you trust the samples from imagining resource).
Imaging Resource "Comparometer" ™ Digital Camera Image Comparison Page
2. You already some Pentax stuff. If you go to Sony, the quality lenses cost much more. Sony seems to have divide the lens into two very clear segments. The cheap so-so commercial lenses and the really nice and very expensive CZ ones.
They are not even generous enough to give a commercial level 85mm prime at f1.8 or f2, but have one at f2.8 instead.
With Pentax you have a better spread of quality for the money.

As far as Ricoh's takeover goes. It is a good thing. Certainly better than Hoya. If Hoya was more interested in pumping in more money to promote Pentax with the Kx, K5, Kr and 645D, Pentax would have gotten a better foot hold than now. These are all camera models that are good and made some heads turn, just not enough marketing.
Esp. 'lifestyle' products like colored and ltd ed Kx, Kr,K5, these things need marketing and hype to drive them.
Ricoh is more interested in the camera business than Hoya was.
They only have a GXR as a flagship camera, so a DSLR market share that Pentax provides is a plus.
At worst, they will incorporate the K-mount into a new GXR type camera, but I certainly don't see the K-mount dying off.

Ok.. even if they simply (illogically; since Ricoh paid good money for Pentax) just cut the business.
1. There will be other interested buyers if the price is right. (China/India?)
2. We can just use the camera till it dies in 3-5years (if ever) and just use the still superb lenses on the many EVIL cameras that will be avaliable by then (NX, NEX, u4/3, etc)

On the HP sell off of its PC business example, imho, the Japanese way of business has always been more structured, long term and conservative. The Wall Street 'quarterly growth' expectation is just a load of bull. I think even and egg takes longer to develop than just every 3mths

RonHendriks1966 · 08-25-2011, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by benjikan

I have a sneaking suspicion, that the next high end Pentax will use the Sony 24 mega pixel sensor. I am waiting for the next incarnation to decide what to do as well. I won't purchase the K5, as it is not a huge leap in image quality improvement over the K20D at 100 iso and in RAW, but 24 megapixels, I am really curious.

O wow, you are so wrong at this. K-5 is way better then K20D at any iso-setting.

08-23-2011, 03:36 PM	#33
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by JHD And yet it's much more likely that Sony will endure than Ricoh when the global economy collapses. I wouldn't bet on that. Sony was in the red ink by about $400M in 2010 and so was FujiFilm. Samsung went off on a different trek. They may just be going through a fad. The fact is, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Ricoh and Leica have been in photography for a long time. Sony got into by buying the Minolta line without the name (Konica-Minolta kept it). Samsung started out interacting with Pentax and now schneider but are off on a tangent that may pay off. Panasonic collaborates with Leica. Of the 3 electronic conglomerates (Sony, Samsung and Panny), I suspect Panny has the best chance of keeping a major camera line (not counting phone cams). Unfortunately, Panny does the compact (LX3, Lx5) and m4/3 fairly well but nothing bigger. Last edited by Blue; 08-23-2011 at 03:41 PM.

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08-23-2011, 12:44 PM	#31
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Wait until the A77 is released and then play with it and decide. Ergonomics is a big part of how well a DSLR feels to you. The specs look fantastic. Be aware that Sony lenses are really $$$$$$ :-( What kills Sony for me is their wacky hotshoe that doesn't have a center firing pin. If you're into studio/strobist stuff at all, this will irk you to no end. I'd look at the D7000 instead if I were forced to choose another system...

08-23-2011, 03:20 PM	#32
zorak Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tennessee Posts: 44	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 well that sounds logical since you are using liveview all the time and putting the sensor on a heatwave without any cooling system. That just works in low temperature surroundings. Well,considering that the excellent live view is one of the selling points for a $750 camera I just expect more.I also agree about the weird hot shoe.Sony has a history of going their own way as in mini disc,betamax,get my drift.funny thing is,the missus wanted a dslr like a point and shoot,even though I told her that she would probably end up using the viewfinder more than live view and guess what.I was right.but she is pretty happy with it,I am just glad I have my KR as I just don't want to use hers.

08-23-2011, 04:21 PM	#34
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by zorak weird hot shoe.Sony has a history of going their own way To be fair, the weird hot shoe pin design was from Minolta IIRC...and yes I did regret having an old Minolta XG7 film camera...

08-23-2011, 07:07 PM	#35
zorak Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tennessee Posts: 44	Point taken on the sony hot shoe.Just getting back into photography.Back in my film days i was a pentax guy so a lot of my knowledge is dated.While were on the subject of sony,will the old bayonet minolta lenses fit on a sony dslr and if so what limitations are there ?

08-23-2011, 08:06 PM	#36
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by zorak Point taken on the sony hot shoe.Just getting back into photography.Back in my film days i was a pentax guy so a lot of my knowledge is dated.While were on the subject of sony,will the old bayonet minolta lenses fit on a sony dslr and if so what limitations are there ? The Minolta hot shoe dates from the late 80s. I'm sure Sony kept it because it is proprietary (no one else could be bothered, I guess). Your Sony will use any Minolta Maxxum lens, but it will not use the older MD lenses, at least not directly. I don't know if it would be possible to adapt them or not.

08-24-2011, 02:46 PM	#37
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	I have a sneaking suspicion, that the next high end Pentax will use the Sony 24 mega pixel sensor. I am waiting for the next incarnation to decide what to do as well. I won't purchase the K5, as it is not a huge leap in image quality improvement over the K20D at 100 iso and in RAW, but 24 megapixels, I am really curious.

08-24-2011, 02:56 PM	#38
zorak Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tennessee Posts: 44	Originally posted by benjikan I have a sneaking suspicion, that the next high end Pentax will use the Sony 24 mega pixel sensor. I am waiting for the next incarnation to decide what to do as well. I won't purchase the K5, as it is not a huge leap in image quality improvement over the K20D at 100 iso and in RAW, but 24 megapixels, I am really curious. I'm with ya there brother.I think it's inevitable that pentax will give us their version or a full frame dslr.Since I am pretty new to pentax dslr's I don't have very much glass,but I plan on building up my lenses based on the possibility of a full frame pentax in the future.I think their cameras are equal or better in both build quality and image quality.I would love to see a pentax camera known as truly professional tool.its like race cars"win on Sunday,sell on Monday".If Joe average see's a pro using pentax gear,then he is going to want to buy pentax gear,which of course helps to increase sales,which of course helps our favorite camera company stay in business.

08-24-2011, 03:25 PM	#39
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by zorak I would love to see a pentax camera known as truly professional tool.its like race cars"win on Sunday,sell on Monday".If Joe average see's a pro using pentax gear,then he is going to want to buy pentax gear,which of course helps to increase sales,which of course helps our favorite camera company stay in business. The problem with that is that Pentax has traditionally not had much luck in getting the most visible pros to use their gear. Folks like news photographers, sports photographers, wedding photographers, etc... Most of Pentax's pro users were medium format folks, shooting the 6X7 or 645.

08-24-2011, 04:31 PM	#40
zorak Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tennessee Posts: 44	Of course,most of these folks would want a full frame camera.Pentax doesn't make one so of course the choice has been made for them.The 645 is a massive looking camera along with a massive price.Of course those things might not matter to a pro.I feel that pentax can make a full frame cheaper than the competition and if they want to be considered to "professional grade" then they will have to offer professional gear.Don't get me wrong,The current offerings from pentax are truly awesome and for the forseeable future are all i need.But if anybody on this forum is honest they will tell you that their "inner Geek" would love to be able to own the best camera around and for that camera to be a Pentax.

08-24-2011, 05:03 PM	#41
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	I'm saying that Pentax has never really cracked that crowd of professional photographers, even during the days of film when they were a major player. These days, it's almost an insurmountable challenge to get Pentax DSLRs in the hands of pros in any significant number. Pentax is going to find another route to draw the attention of the masses.

08-24-2011, 05:55 PM	#42
Philoslothical Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,889	Maybe it's just my own biases, but I think Sony is in even worse a position when it comes to pros. Pentax does need growth into this area, but in consumer products I think they have a lot more going for them, well beyond an old established name in cameras. I think it would help Pentax just as much as adding new hardware to their lineup at this point, to start aggressively advertising in North American and Europe. Pentax can't expect much market share at any level if they don't. On the other side, Sony is really late to the game. They also have their attention divided between too many classes of products, and they've shown in those products that if something can be tweaked to make it proprietary, they will. Those issues alone would be enough to make me leery of them for the next decade or so, even without the colossal blunders I brought up early in the thread. To their credit, they do advertise, and it shows.

08-24-2011, 06:43 PM	#43
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Just saw the specs for the A77, it's within 1% of the size of the Canon 7D. I've held the 7D and there's no way I'm ever going to be interested in an APS-C camera that big.

08-25-2011, 12:43 AM	#44
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	The K5 is the logical way to go. 1. The K5 just beats the A55 and maybe the A77 in image quality (if you trust the samples from imagining resource). Imaging Resource "Comparometer" ™ Digital Camera Image Comparison Page 2. You already some Pentax stuff. If you go to Sony, the quality lenses cost much more. Sony seems to have divide the lens into two very clear segments. The cheap so-so commercial lenses and the really nice and very expensive CZ ones. They are not even generous enough to give a commercial level 85mm prime at f1.8 or f2, but have one at f2.8 instead. With Pentax you have a better spread of quality for the money. As far as Ricoh's takeover goes. It is a good thing. Certainly better than Hoya. If Hoya was more interested in pumping in more money to promote Pentax with the Kx, K5, Kr and 645D, Pentax would have gotten a better foot hold than now. These are all camera models that are good and made some heads turn, just not enough marketing. Esp. 'lifestyle' products like colored and ltd ed Kx, Kr,K5, these things need marketing and hype to drive them. Ricoh is more interested in the camera business than Hoya was. They only have a GXR as a flagship camera, so a DSLR market share that Pentax provides is a plus. At worst, they will incorporate the K-mount into a new GXR type camera, but I certainly don't see the K-mount dying off. Ok.. even if they simply (illogically; since Ricoh paid good money for Pentax) just cut the business. 1. There will be other interested buyers if the price is right. (China/India?) 2. We can just use the camera till it dies in 3-5years (if ever) and just use the still superb lenses on the many EVIL cameras that will be avaliable by then (NX, NEX, u4/3, etc) On the HP sell off of its PC business example, imho, the Japanese way of business has always been more structured, long term and conservative. The Wall Street 'quarterly growth' expectation is just a load of bull. I think even and egg takes longer to develop than just every 3mths

08-25-2011, 01:18 AM	#45
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by benjikan I have a sneaking suspicion, that the next high end Pentax will use the Sony 24 mega pixel sensor. I am waiting for the next incarnation to decide what to do as well. I won't purchase the K5, as it is not a huge leap in image quality improvement over the K20D at 100 iso and in RAW, but 24 megapixels, I am really curious. O wow, you are so wrong at this. K-5 is way better then K20D at any iso-setting.